dumb 1911 Springfield questions...


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Leaky Waders
May 24, 2004, 12:09 AM
Hi...hopefully Tamara, Old Fluff or 1911tuner respond to this as well as all of the other enlightened folks around here...

I have this springfiled armory ultra compact model number PB9160L. (Shortly after I purchased it I learned from everyone why I shouldn't own a short framed 1911...)

I have only shot 200 rounds of harball through it - it worked well and hit to point of aim.

My questions are (since there doesn't seem to be a clear step by step operation of the pistol in the manual ala Ruger)...

1) When I manually pull the hammer back, there are two clicks. I assume that the first click is a kind of half-cock safety feature. If I pull the trigger with the hammer im this position - it falls. Is it supposed to do that?

2) The hammer rattles. I mean when you shake the gun from side to side it rattles. The doesn't seem to be any barrel to hammer play in it...just like slide to magazine play (vertical play?). Is that a problem? If so, how do I fix it?

I appreciate your answers.

L.W.

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Black Majik
May 24, 2004, 12:24 AM
1) The 2 clicks is half cock and full cock. If your hammer is at half cock and you pull the trigger, the hammer will fall. that is normal. The reason for half cock is if the hammer fallls from full cock, it'll catch at half cock so the gun wont fire.

2) I dont believe hammer play is normal. Might wanna get that checked. At ful cock (make sure gun is empty!) can you push down on the hammer so that the hammer falls without pressing the trigger?

Jim Watson
May 24, 2004, 01:01 AM
1. Springfield (and Colt) 1911 type pistols no longer have a true half cock. What you have is a "safety stop" made only to catch the hammer if it somehow drops off of full cock without the trigger being pulled. It is supposed to be so low on the hammer that if you pull off of the stop it will not fire.

2. The HAMMER rattles? Cocked or down?
The only thing I know of to cause that, in the hammer down position only, is a short hammer strut. Nothing to do but replace it. If the hammer rattles while cocked, there is something wrong I cannot visualize. The only thing that rattles on most guns is the grip safety.

I don't know what you mean by "barrel to hammer play" or "slide to magazine play."

dsk
May 24, 2004, 02:23 AM
Like Jim said, if the hammer strut is too short often there can be enough slack to allow the hammer and strut to "float" and not be under spring tension when the hammer is lowered. I've also seen mainspring housings with the mainspring cap retaining pin hole drilled too low cause this as well. But if that's not what you're talking about we'll need a better description of the problem.

Treylis
May 24, 2004, 02:37 AM
Springfield (and Colt) 1911 type pistols no longer have a true half cock. What you have is a "safety stop" made only to catch the hammer if it somehow drops off of full cock without the trigger being pulled. It is supposed to be so low on the hammer that if you pull off of the stop it will not fire.

Why did they change the design?

1911Tuner
May 24, 2004, 06:11 AM
Treylis asked:

Why did they change the design?

Simply a money-saving step...One less machining operation to do...and the
shelf isn't as brutal on the sear as the half-cock notch in the event of a
half-cock stop during a hammer followdown or your thumb slipping off
the hammer.

If your Springfield has the ILS system, the hammer shouldn't have any
play when it's down, since the mainspring cap isn't captive by the small pin
in the standard design...

Are you sure it's the hammer and not the slide? :confused:

Standin' by...

Tuner

BluesBear
May 24, 2004, 11:21 AM
If the hammer strut were too short. (highly unlikely unless the tip has broken off) then the firing pin spring would push the hammer away from the firing pin stop.
With the hammer lowered on an empty chamber can you push it forward 1mm or so? If not then it isn't your hammer strut.

Hold the pistol backwards in your hand with the rear sight against the web between your thumb and index finger. Reach around and depress the grip safety with your index finger. Then shake the gun. Does it still rattle?

dsk
May 24, 2004, 11:49 AM
The new-style half-cock notch is safer. The old style was capable of shearing off and causing an AD if somebody carried the pistol at half-cock and dropped it on the hammer.

In other words, to understand the logic of things like this you have to think like an idiot.

Leaky Waders
May 24, 2004, 06:50 PM
OK...I'm an idiot...I know the difference but was interrupted and tired while typing...the Trigger rattles...not the freaking hammer. Sorry for all the confusion.

When you shake the pistol up or down it rattles, but not when shaking it sideways or forward or backwards.

Thanks again for the input. The hammer is fine the back strap is fine. My brain sometimes is not...and my trigger rattles a little...

1911Tuner
May 24, 2004, 07:36 PM
LW said:

OK...I'm an idiot...I know the difference but was interrupted and tired while typing...the Trigger rattles...not the freaking hammer. Sorry for all the confusion.

:D If I called myself an idiot every time I had a brainfart...I'd be an idiot
at least 25 times a day. Notta problem.

The rattle is there because your trigger is like every other part of a
production gun...Assembled from select-fit, drop-in parts that are
subject to tolerance stacking. How well the "fit" depends on the
dedication of the assembler...and how bad his hangover is on
Monday after the wedding/Bar Mitzva/you-name-it party was.

Most production pistols have a loose trigger fit...some looser than others.
Nature of the beast, and unless it's really bad, it won't hurt anything.
You can get an oversized aftermarket trigger and fit it to the gun. Not
a hard project...just takes a little time.

Luck!

Tuner

Leaky Waders
May 24, 2004, 08:14 PM
Thanks alot Tuner! I really appreciate it.

BTW I liked your review/analysis/torture of the Springer thread too.

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