[greyhound]

So I was wondering - I have yet to see where any WW II soldier took a small, concealable (J frame type) revolver off to war, and I wonder if its just me not looking in the right places or whether they weren't made at all or in much quantities.

I see lots of stories about M&P or Victory Models being carried., but those are 4" barrels.

Logically, it seems like small, concealable .38s would have been hugely popular from day 1.

When did J frames come into production? Or K frames with short barrels?

Have a sneaking suspicion I'm missing something here, but I gotta ask!

[Sistema1927]

I don't know about J-frames pre-WWII, but when you figure that the 1849 "Pocket" revolver was Colt's best seller between 1850 and 1872, and the countless numbers of small revolvers sold by everyone and their brother since S&W introduced their first rimfire revolvers, there were probably a fair number of pocket revolvers (and pocket automatics) carried into the various theaters of operation 60 years ago.

[ChristopherG]

I think I remember reading that the Mormons invented 'em back in Utah's early days. Hopefully someone in the know will chime in.

[Nightcrawler]

In my Armory, there's a historic display of items from the 1913 Strike, where the miners rebelled against the Calumet & Hecla mining company. There are two "strike-breaker" pistols. Both are revolvers, small-framed, and apparently nickel plated. One has like a 2" barrel. I don't know the caliber or make of either of these revolvers, though.

So a double action snubby has been around since at least 1913-ish.

[dfariswheel]

Somewhere buried in my library is a photo of a Colt Second Model Dragoon with the barrel cut off right where it changes to a round barrel.

Of course, there's also the Pocket Model Paterson that had a short barrel.

"Snub-nosed" revolvers were made or altered as soon as revolvers were invented, and the pocket revolver was popular from the get-go.

Starting with the late 1870's the short barreled DA revolver was heavily manufactured in America, and England.
In fact, some of the first gun control was in England in response to the tidal wave of cheap revolvers made possible by the industrial revolution.

[Old Fuff]

During World War Two the military purchased and used Colt Detective Specials and S&W Victory Models with 2 inch barrels. While these were not common they were used by the OSS and MP/Criminal Investigators. Some were issued to General Officers including Generals Eisenhower and Patton. Each of them had a Detective Special.

Snub-nose guns go back to the flintlock age - long before revolvers.

[Jim March]

Snubbie revolvers were made up out of cut-down Colt 36 and 44cal open-top percussion guns by the Mormon security forces (Avenging Angels) circa 1850ish before the final move to Utah. The guns were often referred to by the same name as the security force. Illinois enacted Mormon-specific gun control during the Nauvoo days and these chopped-down beasts were the natural result.

They're the first serious-bore snubbie revolvers known.

[V-fib]

Cabelas shows a couple of snubnose revolvers in their shooting catalog.

1860 snubnose .44cal

“A number of these revolvers were used as a concealed firearm by the security guards of the prominent groups throughout the west who were seen as outlaws by the local authorities. The shortened barrel and removed loading lever made them a popular weapon with men on both sides of the law.” 3”bbl

1862 Police snubnose .36cal

“These revolvers were special ordered for the Wells Fargo & Co. Overland Express and soon became a mainstay for men who didn’t want to abandon all their protection when traveling into towns where firearms were to be checked in upon arrival. The absence of the loading lever and the short barrel made it easy to conceal in a boot, pocket, or under a coat.” 3”bbl

:cool:

[ChristopherG]

Thanks, Jim--that's the story I thought I remembered. Probably you I heard it from in the first place ;)

Of course, this doesn't answer greyhound's question about 'snubby J-frames or K-frames'. My impression is that the J-frame was really born with the Chief's Special, which would have been back in 1950, yes? As far as a short barrelled M&P, I'd think there must've been some earlier than that.

If we can't generate a more satisfactory answer here, the guys over at smith-wessonforum.com could rattle it off for you in short order. But if you get it over there, you have to come back and share it with us here!!

[Kaylee]

Snubbie revolvers were made up out of cut-down Colt 36 and 44cal open-top percussion guns

If anyone's in the Boise area, check out the lower area of the history museum downtown. There's an old Colt modified just as described, pulled off an outlaw as I recall c. 1910 or so. Also a little nickled purse pistol from some fine Idaho lady. :)

-K

[Gabby Hayes]

S&W made small frame snubnose revolvers prior to the Chiefs Special. The I-frame Terrier in .38 S&W was introduced in 1936. The five-shot Chiefs in .38 S&W Special was announced in October 1950 at the International Association of Chiefs of Police conference.

If memory serves, which it does less and less these days, Colt started cataloging the Detective Special in 1927.

[BluesBear]

Merwin & Hulbert and S&W both had 3" barreled Double Action .44 revolvers in the 1870s. .32 & .38 revolvers with 3" barrels were available then also.

S&W introduced it's double action, concealed hammer, 2" .32 S&W "bicycle gun" with grip safety in 1888.

[Jim March]

The real ancestor of our snubbies was probably the "British Bulldogs" - originals were mostly Webleys but the Belgians and others made huge numbers of copies.

They were often 44cal, short barrel and grip, five shot, solid frame, DA, loaded with a loading gate...common as fleas between around 1870ish and 1900. A lot made their way into the US East Coast urban areas...definately a "city gun" versus the more "farm and trail drive oriented" American stuff (bigger, tougher, more accurate).

A full history with links to excellent pics pages:

http://members.aol.com/hrftx/TBBD.htm