$50 Bucks for an FFL Transfer? You Got to be Kidding me!!!


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Blain
February 10, 2003, 11:30 PM
I mean come on! 6 of the 10 gun dealers I know charge $50 to send an FFL for you! Any of you notice this aswell? What a rip! Cheapest I've found is one nice guy with a small shop that only charges $20. I just can't get my mind over it.

Other shops not only want to charge you $50 for the FFL but an additional 5% on the cost of the gun! One of them even tried to pass it off as if it were a law! I don't give said dealer buisness anymore.

Bloody gun dealers!

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EJ
February 10, 2003, 11:33 PM
Times are rough--
They aren't thrilled you're buying elsewhere--
Some people will atke advantage of anything and anyone if there's a buck to be made--

You just have to have a Long memory--;)

Mike Irwin
February 10, 2003, 11:40 PM
$25 at my place here in Virgina, but I've been quoted one hell of a lot more than that, mainly by the local "screw 'em, rob 'em, cheat 'em" shop.

HABU
February 10, 2003, 11:44 PM
I was calling around today checking FFL transfer fees. One of the shops quoted me $50!:what: Like I'm gonna give them 50 funtickets for a transfer.:fire: The shop I deal with most will do it for $25.

That Valtro wont get here quick enough!:neener:

KarlG
February 10, 2003, 11:50 PM
The range I go to sells some guns and will special order stuff. I asked the how much they would charge to do a transfer. The guy explained how he had expenses and had to pay for his FFL and the background check takes time and... After all of that he said he would have to charge $25. :) That seems totally fair to me. The guys at the range are great!

EJ
February 10, 2003, 11:56 PM
Like anything else you have to shop around and find out who you are REALLY dealing with--

MitchSchaft
February 11, 2003, 12:03 AM
The shop right down the street only charges $20. On top of that, he allows full-auto as long as they're in pistol cartridges :D. Here's me this weekend shooting FA my first time! :D
http://home.midsouth.rr.com/schaftlfam/pics/Misc/CREW%20SHOOT%20009.jpg

Diesle
February 11, 2003, 12:03 AM
Im not sure if this applies in your case but, there is a common mistake thats made out there....

In most states, you do not need an FFL to SEND the gun. You only need on the receiving end. I think a lot of shops would like to have you beleive otherwise to get your business.


Diesle

MitchSchaft
February 11, 2003, 12:06 AM
Good point, Diesle.

10-Ring
February 11, 2003, 12:12 AM
Several months ago, I asked around to see if I'd actually save money by purchasing online. One guy quoted me $75 to receive the pistol :eek: Since that's more than I'd pay on tax, I'd save money by buying locally

EJ
February 11, 2003, 12:13 AM
That's their whole intent--

WhoKnowsWho
February 11, 2003, 01:04 AM
I have a place or 2 at $50. Most at $25 I believe. And two small places for $20. I don't remember any of them mentioning a extra 5% fee on top of it.

So far I haven't had to do a transfer... but when I do... it ain't gonna be at the $50 place!

WonderNine
February 11, 2003, 01:15 AM
Gosh, I feel lucky. The most expensive place in town is $25. My FFL charges $15.

They recieve the gun, log it in, process your form (throw it in a drawer) and call for the background check. $15-$25 is plenty fair. Anything over $30 is ridiculous and they are obviously trying to take advantage of the average person who doesn't buy alot of guns and doesn't know all of the ridiculous laws out there.

BamBam-31
February 11, 2003, 01:42 AM
Same here, in LA.

Two places charge $75, one charges $50, and (thank God) one charges $25. Needless to say, the last one is the one I now frequent. Nice guys there, too. They're of the "well, we're all gunowners here" school of thought.

Let's see, if I find a Mosin Nagant M44 online for $50 and transfer it through one of the earlier dealers, it'd be $50 (rifle) + $75 (transfer) + $20 (DROS) + $15 (shipping) = $160!! Will somebody please pass the vasoline?

:cuss:

WhoKnowsWho
February 11, 2003, 01:47 AM
No lube for you if you did that! I'd let you get taken advantage of! At first, before I even thought about shipping and transfer fees, almost every on line place looked like a great deal, then I did the math. Anyways, I would rather spend a little more to support a competing shop with good service most of the time. Now... if the deal was untouchable... I'll at least transfer it through that shop. :D

Wildalaska
February 11, 2003, 02:40 AM
My rule...$0 to $25 for good customers (and usually $0)...these are the guys that will drop a few thousand dollars a year in the shop without questions...Ill return the favour, and they dont abuse it...and they usually never order anyhting I can get for them anyway...and even if they do, so what...These are the guys that we let behind the counter to fondle whatever they want..they know what they want anyway...Id class the bulk of our transfer work is done for these guys....

Newbies and casual customers? $25 for any used or custom gun, or any of the Milsurps out of shotgun News or off the net..

Guys looking for the "undercut"...the guys who will try to save $5 by buying a new gun from a distributor...bye bye...

WildknowyourcustomerbaseAlaska

Byron Quick
February 11, 2003, 02:41 AM
My FFL charges $20 to $25.

But some points:

1) I do a LOT of business with him.

2) I never ask him to do a transfer on a firearm that he carries in inventory.


An ongoing relationship with a local gun dealer can be a valuable thing. I've been doing business with my guy for twenty years. Now I can go in, pick out what I want, put about twenty percent down, and walk out the door with it if I want.

WonderNine
February 11, 2003, 03:01 AM
My rule...$0 to $25 for good customers (and usually $0)...these are the guys that will drop a few thousand dollars a year in the shop without questions...Ill return the favour, and they dont abuse it...and they usually never order anyhting I can get for them anyway...and even if they do, so what...These are the guys that we let behind the counter to fondle whatever they want..they know what they want anyway...Id class the bulk of our transfer work is done for these guys....

Newbies and casual customers? $25 for any used or custom gun, or any of the Milsurps out of shotgun News or off the net..

Guys looking for the "undercut"...the guys who will try to save $5 by buying a new gun from a distributor...bye bye...

WildknowyourcustomerbaseAlaska

That's a good policy, but you could be nicer to 'champaigne on a beer budget' brand new Browning/Winchester snob newbies like me (23 yr. old or whatever age) ;) buying nice new guns. I only buy NEW or 98% guns and I'm picky about that. We typically have rent and student loans to pay and $30-50 saved on taxes and shop markup is alot to us.

You're a good guy though. I'm glad they have dealers like you up in Alaska, I hope I can visit that great state someday. :cool:

WonderNine
February 11, 2003, 03:08 AM
The shop right down the street only charges $20. On top of that, he allows full-auto as long as they're in pistol cartridges .

Could you please explain to me about that? If he's Class III he should be able to "allow" full auto in any cartridge including rifle cartridges. Please explain to me a little bit more about that when you can...

MitchSchaft
February 11, 2003, 03:09 AM
Doh, I meant he allows you to shoot full-auto on his range in pistol cartridges only. My bad :o.

WonderNine
February 11, 2003, 03:13 AM
Oh, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

WhoKnowsWho
February 11, 2003, 05:37 AM
I remember the last time I got into an argument about the transfer fees at a local place, haven't brought it back up again.

Said gun was used $199, 1 mag, no accesories.

"Any lower? Most places are 99.95"

"Well, if you transfer through us, $50, and shipping $50, you are right back where we are selling it at"

"Huh? I can go two doors down and transfer for $25 and I don't think anyone charges $50 unless it is 2 hour shipping"

"Well, uh, I just work here, I don't set the prices."

Sisco
February 11, 2003, 06:06 AM
I've only done a tranfer once, to a pawnshop. He charges 10% of the purchase price. Since the gun I was buying was only $160 I didn't bother to ask if there was a maximum charge - 10% of a $1600 gun would be way too much to pay. :what:

ruger357
February 11, 2003, 07:30 AM
$25.00 in my neck of the woods.

El Tejon
February 11, 2003, 07:38 AM
Oh, no, a gun dealer trying to make money and turn his hobby into a business!:uhoh: Obviously we need the BATFE to step in and make more regulations.:scrutiny:

JeFF D
February 11, 2003, 08:06 AM
Theres a small shop about a 10 minute walk fom my house that does tranfers for $15, but I wont ever go back there the guy doesnt believe in having anything to do with "military style weapons" (AR's, AK's, FAL, CETME, etc...) :cuss: :cuss: :banghead:

foghornl
February 11, 2003, 08:14 AM
My favorite local shop charges $30.

seldomseen
February 11, 2003, 08:47 AM
I just had a CZ 75b transfered to me yesterday in Middleburg Hts Ohio for $15.00. I bought it off of Gunbroker.com for $419 nib shipped to my ffl and he charged me the usual $15.00 fee. I wanted to buy the gun locally here in the Cleveland area, but none of the gunshops could find one in the satin nickel finish. One gunshop told me to call CZ-USA in Kansas City and find out where they had shipped nickel finish ones and let him know. I didn't bother taking him up on his advice. The ffl that I use runs his business out of his home, so he doesn't have the overhead that a gunshop would have. That may account for part of his cheaper price for transfers. He doesn't charge me any sales tax either.

Intune
February 11, 2003, 08:52 AM
Oh no, a gundealer trying to gouge the unwary. It's a different animal. Just went throgh this process and discussion on another thread. Ordered an SAR1 for $290 from a dealer in ID. The guy that usually does my trans ($20) was out w/flu. I went to another shop that I had browsed before. Guy said he didn't do transfers because the paperwork took up too much room. Oookkaaayyy. Directed me to another shop 'bout two miles away. This guy had an SAR1 on display. $399. Asked if he could go any lower and he did! "Ten bucks off for cash." These rifles are about $260 @ dealer cost, $8 s&h. Umm, can you do a transfer for me? "$50 plus $10 backgound check." Bye, thanks for your time. He got 100% of $0.

My sick guy was back yesterday & we talked about this for a while. TN has almost 10% sales tax on certain items, guns being one. He did a transfer for me last Fall on a $2,000 Beretta o/u. Almost $200 in tax if I ordered from him. He said that he will take $20 for 5 mins work any day of the week and that if he ordered this rifle for me his profit would be about same but I would be paying about $30 in sales tax. Which shop do I recommend to my friends?

Greg L
February 11, 2003, 09:50 AM
Bam Bam:Let's see, if I find a Mosin Nagant M44 online for $50 and transfer it through one of the earlier dealers, it'd be $50 (rifle) + $75 (transfer) + $20 (DROS) + $15 (shipping) = $160!! Will somebody please pass the vasoline?

If you are going to be ordering old military surplus you should really get your C&R. $30 for 3 years, you could have paid for 9 years with that one transfer plus they get dropped off on your doorstep.

No vasoline required. :D

Greg

RustyHammer
February 11, 2003, 10:08 AM
Shop around ...

I found a guy who does them for FREE if you are a NRA Member.

The range where I shoot charges a whopping $10 bucks.

$50 bucks? Get out of town!

Rusty ...

kumma
February 11, 2003, 10:08 AM
just curious, do many of you who complain about transfer prices, ask about buying the same gun locally? are you doing it because its cheaper to transfer it, than buy from them? do you support you local gun shop?

not really the same but im a self employed screen printer and get calls all the time from people who want to save money by supplying their own shirts. i say sure i just mark my prices up to the same price if i supply the shirts. im in business to make money, i know thats a crime in this capitalistic democracy, sue me...

:neener:

jimmy
February 11, 2003, 11:24 AM
The local gunshop in my area charges $30 per transfer, flat and with no exceptions. Once I ordered three guns from the same source at the same time = $90 in transfer fees. I knew I was going to take this hit before I placed the order, so I can't complain.

Anyway, I don't have a problem if a shop is recovering its cost plus a reasonable profit. I do have a problem if the shop is purposefully overcharging--as I think some of them do--in order to limit my options for where to buy guns. My options are already limited enough by law. A shop that overcharges for transfers may think it's improving its own business by making it too expensive for me to buy guns elsewhere. But in fact it's losing my good will and therefore my inclination to buy from it.

My $0.02.

Guy B. Meredith
February 11, 2003, 11:29 AM
I have heard that some charge a percent of the purchase price.

Who are the good guys in the SF Bay area?

Don Gwinn
February 11, 2003, 11:36 AM
Greg, you took the words right out of my mouth! Dad and I both got our C&R's last year. $30 apiece. I bought a Schmidt-Rubin K31 and some ammo in April (before I lost my job :( ) I paid, I think, $118 including the shipping. It was on my doorstep when I came home from work three days later. No transfer, no fees, no nothing. BATF has the right to demand one annual inspection of your C&R bound book and collection, but you can choose whether they come to your home or set an appointment for you to come to the local office. They do NOT gain the right to register, inspect, or even know about any guns you didn't acquire with your C&R FFL, even if they're guns that would have qualified.
You can purchase exactly as an 01 FFL would any firearm made more than 50 years ago (so anything prior to 1953, this year.) You can also buy much cheaper because you're basically paying dealer cost on these old guns. It also applies to collector's guns on a list BATF maintains, but I don't pay much attention to those.

On Sunday dad and I went to a gun auction west of here. They were demanding that everyone wait five days (which is two days longer than the actual waiting period for handguns, FOUR extra days for long guns) and passing out maps because you were supposed to go to a different town about fifty miles from the auction to pick up your purchases. Dad bought three antique shotguns, so he gave them a copy of his cruffle and we walked out with our guns. That was fun. ;)

http://www.cruffler.com

Blackhawk
February 11, 2003, 11:40 AM
So, go someplace else for transfers.

Don Gwinn
February 11, 2003, 11:44 AM
You may have to look for a different kind of business. The guy I use here is a gunsmith whose gun shop is almost secondary to his smithing business. He charges $15. There's also a military surplus place where the used guns are reasonable, but he charges $50. He told me very honestly that although he wanted business, he didn't think doing transfers was worth his time as compared to selling guns. I told him I was trading a gun and nothing he could do would change it into a sale for him, but he was firm. He wasn't a jerk about it or anything; just the way he wants to do business.

It must be pretty bad up around Chicago, because John Birch advertises that if you become an Amsoil dealer and join CC Inc. as a full member you become a "virtual gun dealer" and can "use our FFL as your own." This means they only charge $15 to do gun transfers! I don't know about you, but I have "my own" 03 FFL and it doesn't cost me an additional $15 to use it, so I'm not sure that makes sense. But in that area, $15 may be REALLY cheap.
A much better deal, to my mind, is that they'll order any gun for you for a flat $40 over cost. If you buy a CZ52, that's not a great deal. But if you buy a Springfield Professional Model or a Barret for cost plus $40 . . . . . :cool:

Intune
February 11, 2003, 11:55 AM
If my dealer would have had even a used one I would have bought it from him because his price would have been reasonable. When he transferred my Beretta I ordered a new shotgun/rifle combo for my son from him. I would not expect him to do a transfer for me from a wholesaler where dealers get their guns. Do you think $400 for a $260 rifle is a good deal? Is a $50 trans fee a reasonable cost to you? "I have the FFL, you don't" attitude is not a guy I want to do biz with. Is he allowed to have that attitude? Sure. Just as I am allowed to pick where I want to conduct transactions. My dealer made $20 for his efforts, the other guy gets to dust off his bound book and over-priced weapons.

cratz2
February 11, 2003, 01:24 PM
Up until recently, I haven't had to pay anything for transfers. Usually I'll pick up some ammo or scope mounts or reloading stuff or something anytime I was getting a transfer. He's been trying to sell his shop for a while and now I think he has a buyer. Says things like that will probably be changing.

I guess I count myself lucky that I haven't been charged much thus far.

BamBam-31
February 11, 2003, 03:31 PM
Okay, okay, the M44 thing was an example, not a real life incident. Just crunching numbers to illustrate how ridiculous some of the transfer fees would be.

The C&R FFL is VERY tempting. I actually printed out the application, but I'm afraid that if I fill it out, I'll send it, and if I send it, I'll get it, and if I get it, GAME OVER!! I'm trying to cut down on purchases as is.

I did pay the $25 to the local dealer for an exquisite Finn M39, though. Can't find any of those around here, that's for sure. And that's my LAST purchase!

:evil: No it isn't. You want another Enfield, don't you? The Faz? Get the C&R FFL.

:) NO! Stop it!! I don't have any more room! And the bills....

:evil: Well, it's $30 for three years. The more you buy, the more you save. And they'll ship it to your door.

:) A pox on you, Satan! Away!!

:evil: Hehehe. Tii-i-ime, is on my side. Yes it is.

:(

Hutch
February 11, 2003, 04:08 PM
Look at it another way, S-Pig. A dealer can get 25 scoots for maybe 5 minutes worth of clerical work, a stamp, and envelope, and a copy of the FFL. Alternatively, he can get 100% of nuthin'. Which is the better deal for the dealer?

SteyrAUG
February 11, 2003, 04:52 PM
Here is the problem.

A LOT of people confuse "transfer" with "Buying at DEALER COST without a FFL."

If someone wants to get a firearm "transfered" I charge $25.00 and that includes the backgrounch check fee the State of Florida charges me. So not all of that $25.00 is mine.

A transfer includes people who buy guns from online auctions, out of state collectors and things like that. they are basically long distance private sales that I have no part of other than to simply do the required background check and paperwork. I do these for collectors all the time.

Now onto the other guys. These are the people who try and buy from wholesalers online or in SGN at my dealer cost and don't want to take the time trouble or expense of pulling a FFL on their own. They would prefer to order it on MY FFL and pay me some kind of gratuity as if I'm some sort of waiter in a restraunt.

The problem with this scenario is is conflicts with my desire to order at wholesale and sell for a profit with the crazy, insane notion of maintaining a business that actually supports itself. in effect, those who think I should "transfer" a new firearm for say "dealer + $20.00" are in fact dictating to me how much they believe I should be allowed to charge for a firearm.

It never ceases to amaze me.

When I'm in the grocery store I don't ask how much is "dealer price" on bread and soup. I understand I pay a markup that supports the business. When a mechanic replaces parts on my caar I don't suggest that I pay "dealer price" on the parts plus something "for his trouble." He charges me what he decides he charges. For those who are NOT Americans this is called capitalism. The idea is you make a profit and that profit supports/maintains the business. Crazy huh?

So here's how it works. You want Gun A, you check around and find out how much Gun A will cost. If you call me, it will probably be a special order. I will research dealer cost, shipping fees, etc. and ADD a markup. The markup money is the ONLY thing that goes in MY pocket. Contrary to popular belief I don't get to keep S/H, sales tax or background check fees. I only get the PROFIT. And when someone suggests that $20.00 is suitable PROFIT on any firearm and that is all I am entitled to make on a sale I get upset.

Guns are not cheeseburgers. No dealer will ever sell enough in a week to cover his overhead on $20.00 per gun. Small dealers NEVER will. This is why most FFLs have day jobs and don't renew once they find out what a dead end it is. They ONLY way for a business to survive (p[ayu your bills, feed your family) is to charge enough that it actually makes money.

It is supposed to work like this.

FFL buys at dealer cost and sells at MSRP. The MSRP being about 40% above dealer. now you and me know THAT will never happen. I have never sold a firearm at MSRP ever and I don't think anyone else hass either.

I personally charge somewhere in the middle of "dealer" and "retail" depending upon the make, model and the market. I do everything I can to keep my overhead low to survive on this lower profit margin. And there are some firearms with no markup potential at all (SKSs, etc.) and others where I can't even begin to compete with National chains (Kmart, Wal Mart) who buy them in enourmous quanitity and then sell them at my dealer price.

So try and remember that next time you think $50.00 is way out of line. On a $500 firearm it is only 10% and you should be paying a LOT more, unless you happen to be FFL.

SteyrAUG
February 11, 2003, 04:58 PM
Look at it another way, S-Pig. A dealer can get 25 scoots for maybe 5 minutes worth of clerical work, a stamp, and envelope, and a copy of the FFL. Alternatively, he can get 100% of nuthin'. Which is the better deal for the dealer?

It is NOT 5 minutes of clerical work. It is $100s of dollars in FFL fees, code and zoing, occupational permits and related overhead which he must recoup before he even begins to make a profit.

It is also a recipie for a going out of business sale.

I now it sounds nuts but "transfer" dealers (the guys who will do any gun for "dealer + $25.00) never make it. They don't get sufficient volume to survive and there are too many competeing for the same pool of guys who won't pay any more than that.

If a FFL does not run his business in a way that is actually PROFITABLE he won't have a business to run.

Mike Irwin
February 11, 2003, 05:06 PM
Kumma,

If I could find the kind of firearms I want in my local area, that would be wonderful.

But since I normally can't, unless it's a completely fluke incident, I've no choice but to go for the transfer.

S&W Model of 1905 in .32-20?

I've NEVER seen one for sale in Northern Virginia. Got one via Gun Broker.

S&W Model 24-3 in .44 Special? Last one I saw at a gunshow was over $600. I bought one on gunbroker for $380.

S&W Model 30 in almost mint condition? Never seen one of those for sale either.

If local dealers could get these guns at decent prices, I'd be interested. It's a pain in the butt trying to coordinate the transfer and picking it up.

One gun shop in the same area (I used to work there) as the one I use for transfers charges $50 PLUS a additional mark up. The reason for that is simple owner greed. I worked for the guy, I know what he's like. He believes that gun shows in Virginia should be outlawed because they cut into his business. He's an adam henry.

Wildalaska
February 11, 2003, 05:22 PM
Ditto to everything that Stery Aug says..

And add this to the mix...when dealing guns like Kimber, Benelli, Beretta, Sako and certain others, you dealer is forced to put as much as $10,000 into stock...so how do you think he feels when someone wants to use the net to cut into his measly 10% return on the cash...

Blain
February 11, 2003, 06:02 PM
"know thats a crime in this capitalistic democracy, sue me..."



ahhhhh no, it's a capitalistic REPUBLIC!!!

spacemanspiff
February 11, 2003, 06:49 PM
i've been to stores that charge $50 for transfering a firearm, to individuals that charge $20 and do it from their home.

but i decided to call a few pawn shops to see if they handle transfers and one a block from my work does them for $10 flat, one gun or ten guns. the owner hates doing the paperwork and realizes its a hassle, and that shipping a gun to alaska costs much more than shipping in the continental usa. so she doesnt gouge the customers that use her as a FFL.

try checking pawn shops in your area. maybe you'll find someone that doesnt charge an arm and a leg to fill out the 4473.

i really dont see how the overhead of running a full fledged gun store demands high prices for transferring a firearm. i think that overhead is made up by sales of ammo and other supplies. maybe i'm wrong, but customers shouldnt be punished by high transfer fees just because the retailer is upset that you dont want to buy his products.

redneck2
February 11, 2003, 06:53 PM
just wondering how you put $10,000 into inventory

in our store, you could add a zero or two to the end of that

my standard answer every time this comes up...if you think the dealer is getting rich, do the great American thing and START YOUR OWN BUSINESS. You too can get rich by taking $15 for every transfer fee. Nothing to it...just read the above posts

yeah, you can pay the rent, utilities, the insurance, the taxes (payroll, property, income, employee, FICA, etc). Go ahead and go to the bank and get a loan

in our store, off the street customers pay $30-50 depending on the hassle involved. Good customers pay $20-30. Great customers pay little or nothing

And, for all the "experts" that say there's nothing involved...

we can lose our FFL for a transfer just as fast as an in stock gun

Oh...for the complainers...read the above price schedule and see which category you fall into

SteyrAUG
February 11, 2003, 08:06 PM
spacemanspiff
i really dont see how the overhead of running a full fledged gun store demands high prices for transferring a firearm. i think that overhead is made up by sales of ammo and other supplies. maybe i'm wrong, but customers shouldnt be punished by high transfer fees just because the retailer is upset that you dont want to buy his products.

Ammo sales that is funny. Wal Mart sells ammo for what I buy it at for dealer. And it is not about punishing the customer. What you fail to understand, or simply refuse to accept, is that most FFLs are NOT wholesalers to the public. We sell far below suggested retail and that still isn't good enough for most people. Don't like it? Pull your own FFL and then tell me about it in 2 years.

That fact that a gun club (which gets their money from memberships), a pawn shop (which gets their money from buying guns at $10.00 from the guy who stole them) or a gun range (which gets their money from relaods and range fees) can afford to essentially give away guns at "cost + $10.00" has nothing to do with a business that is actaully a firearms retailer.

In closing, if I went to the private businesses of some of the members here and asked they take care of me for "cost plus whatever nominal fee I felt appropriate" most of them would come unglued. But they have no problem with having the audacity to suggest to ME and other dealers what they feel we are entitled to.

You'll have to forgive me, I don't remember calling my business "Welfare Guns For Communists."

Hutch
February 11, 2003, 09:19 PM
Steyr, I understand all about the overhead. I'm trying to call to your attention that the overhead is going to be there, whether you accept $25 for a transfer or not. Remember, the guy who wants to use your FFL to receive the gun is not going to buy that gun from your inventory at your price if you decline to do the transfer. He will go somewhere else, or do without. So the question remains. For that very small INCREMENTAL cost (the stamp, envelope, FFL copy, and some small amount of clerical time), will you take $25, or not?

Wildalaska
February 11, 2003, 09:29 PM
just wondering how you put $10,000 into inventory

Thats what you had to buy the last time I checked with Benelli...

Absent that minimum investment, you dont get em....

And they make you buy the "dogs" to get the good stuff....

SteyrAUG
February 11, 2003, 10:26 PM
Hutch
Steyr, I understand all about the overhead. I'm trying to call to your attention that the overhead is going to be there, whether you accept $25 for a transfer or not. Remember, the guy who wants to use your FFL to receive the gun is not going to buy that gun from your inventory at your price if you decline to do the transfer. He will go somewhere else, or do without. So the question remains. For that very small INCREMENTAL cost (the stamp, envelope, FFL copy, and some small amount of clerical time), will you take $25, or not?

Because it is counter productive to my busniess. True he will go somehwere else, and that is fine. Like I stated before, mine is not a "Community FFL." The $25.00 is of no consequence, it is not sufficient in amount or volume to be of benefit. Being a "transfer" dealer is actually detrimental to the business. Kinda like trying to be a high end jewlery store with a cubic zirconia section.

I have no desire to destroy my business so that some cheapskate can undercut the dealers and undermine my business for the sake of $25.00. Only a "transfer" dealer desperately trying to stay in busniess needs the $25 bucks that badly.

Blain
February 11, 2003, 11:13 PM
Ok, so what do you dealers think is a fair cost for a walk in customer to do an FFL transfer?

In fact this bias against "walk in customers" disturbs me. What do you think "good" customers start off as? That's right, walk ins! You treat me bad because I am a "walk in" then I will be one as I take my buisness else where. The couple gun dealers I am good customers to is due to the fact that they didn't treat me like a joke. I was treated like a human being and a customer, it didn't matter that I had just walked in the store the first time. That is how "good" customers are made and kept.

You say you don't want "that type of buisness". Well that is fine, I'll take my buisness elsewhere, and I'll tell my friends the same. And in the end it will be YOUR loss. So go ahead and do what you must.

It is a capitalist society after all (thank god).

spacemanspiff
February 11, 2003, 11:19 PM
Steyr, i suppose what gets under my skin is hearing the explanations given for high transfer prices (yours is about the best one i've heard). other retailers say "Oh well its a huge responsibility to handle the paperwork and set up the transfer."

and we havent even scratched the surface of sending firearms to yourself or to a friend if you are visiting a place and dont want to go through the hassle of declaring the firearm when checking into an airport. why charge such high fees to people that are shipping their own guns and no sale is involved? case in point are the tourists that visit Alaska and cant bring their firearms through canada. why stick it to them?

SteyrAUG
February 12, 2003, 12:47 AM
Blain, again please see my original reply for e definition of a transfer. If a customer (new, walk in or regular) is transferring a gun then that is NO PROBLEM.

However if he is merely trying to order a NEW GUN from a WHOLESALER at DEALER COST then that is not a transfer. I will still be willing to take care of him, but that is going to be a special order (assuming I don't have it in stock) and the price I quote him will be somehwere between "dealer cost" and "manufacturers suggested retail." I also don't have a set markup, it is ridiculous to think I will profit the same amount of money from a Sig550 as a Rem 870.

spacemanspiff, despite ATF preferrences I don't believe you need a FFL to ship guns to yourself. The ownership is not changing and it is your personal property. I know you can ship a firearms directly to a manufacturer for repair without a FFL. Carriers are mostly to blame for this since most of them will only accept firearms from a FFL. Problem being if I ship or receive it I have to book it. And if I receive it, I do have to call it in, EVEN THOUGH IT IS ALREADY YOUR GUN. And that is just retarded.

WonderNine
February 12, 2003, 01:17 AM
Oh, no, a gun dealer trying to make money and turn his hobby into a business! Obviously we need the BATFE to step in and make more regulations.

I think you're missing the point which is that with the amount of regulations ALREADY in place gun shops are a racket.

Wildalaska
February 12, 2003, 01:21 AM
and we havent even scratched the surface of sending firearms to yourself or to a friend if you are visiting a place and dont want to go through the hassle of declaring the firearm when checking into an airport. why charge such high fees to people that are shipping their own guns and no sale is involved? case in point are the tourists that visit Alaska and cant bring their firearms through canada. why stick it to them?

Spiff, spiff I dont know who you deal with up here, but I probably get more "mail it to yourself" transfers that anyone in the state. Basically we charge $25 for a package...that is one, two three guns, I dont care how many. These guns are NOT run through the dealer book as long as people transfer them right...that is from them, to them c/o us.

Whats the $25 for? Easy..I gotta talk to the person on the phone and explain how to do it. Then I have to get the package, sort it out from all the others. Then put it in storage. Then retrieve it, and stand around while it is opened to ensure that nothing in there is illegal (and yes, some numbnuts already tried to send a loaded gun to us and got caught when it went off in the post office. And if I catch a loaded gun or illegal weapon in the box, 911 of the Feds are getting called becasue my freedom and license is more important than the one who takes advantage of me to commit a criminal act). All of the above takes up my time. Considering I am doing someone a favour (allowing them to use business premises as a mail drop) I dont think $25 is far off line.

In fact this bias against "walk in customers" disturbs me. What do you think "good" customers start off as? That's right, walk ins! You treat me bad because I am a "walk in" then I will be one as I take my buisness else where. The couple gun dealers I am good customers to is due to the fact that they didn't treat me like a joke. I was treated like a human being and a customer, it didn't matter that I had just walked in the store the first time. That is how "good" customers are made and kept.

For me, Everybody that walks in gets treated the same. Its a two way street..I learn your name, your preferences, what you like, etc. You buy stuff, I give you a good price, you buy more, I do you favours, etc...but sorry, the guy that walks in the first time and basically says "I want to use your FFL because I want to save $5" probably isnt gonna pay much attention to that $5,000 custom rifle.

And if my attitude turns people off so be it...if I dont have the steady stream of transferees coming in then I can spend more tiome with the guy thats looking at the Browning Superposed...and if you dont want to come in maybe its your loss, because any time you come in the door theres a deal that the "transfer dealer" could never get because he doesnt have real customers.

Like the one I sold a few weeks ago to a lucky fellow. A Glock 21 LNIB with two high caps and night sights for $459....thats the type of deals I can give because I run a real gunshop.

WildrespectmeIrespectyouAlaska

redneck2
February 12, 2003, 06:04 AM
go back and re-read the post please

Hutch
February 12, 2003, 10:34 AM
SP, I understood SteyrAUG's response. He'd rather not accept the bidness at all, thereby preserving "price points" and his relationship with other (how to say this...) "uncooperative" dealers in the area. I mean no offense to Steyr. I now think I understand why he'd rather not take the 25 bux. No problemo, that reasoning is at least understandable, whether I agree with it or not.

Regarding your FFL transfer business, it's not comparable to our situation here. A real brick-and-mortar gun shop has standard bidness hours, receives UPS and other freight daily, and so on. If such a place is doing a transfer, I think most of the hassle you describe is at least minimized. I asked for an explanation of why a gun shop turns down the chance to pick up $25 for what for them is a very small bit of clerical work. Now I know.

BTW, I have a relative in the bidness who loves me, and handles my transfers fo' free. I hope there're no hard feelings.

Redlg155
February 12, 2003, 12:00 PM
Just curious about the charges for the instant check system call. I know here they charge $5.00 at most places.

Is this a toll free number and does the dealer have to pay anything for each check conducted by the system?

A good while back Kmart was liquidationg a bunch of shotguns and I was thinking of purchasing one. Well, the "sporting goods" section charged 8 bucks and said so because it said they could by law. Everyone else charged five, including the highest priced dealer I could find. I decided not to purchase because even though I would have saved much more money on the purchase. I just didn't have anymore patience to argue with the manager of the section.

Good Shooting
Red

spacemanspiff
February 12, 2003, 01:42 PM
wildalaska, one that stands out in my mind is Gunrunners. they quoted $50 for the first gun, $5 for each add'l. i've heard other prices as well, but none that high, usually in the $20-35 range. and that was for a transfer of personal property.
now i am also under the impression that visitors to our state can ship their guns here, but it must be addressed to a state resident, so the sender couldnt be the receiver. this was explained to me at Norther Security. so if my brother wants to send his guns up when he visits from Arizona, he'd likely have to address it to me, being a state resident. or does it matter who its addressed to, as long as the 4473 reflects that the firearms were released to a state resident?

ajacobs
February 12, 2003, 02:01 PM
I wouldn't dream of asking my dealer to do a transfer on a new gun. Why would I insult him like that. Used or custom guns are aceptable as he can't obtain them readily. I know I pay him more and he is making a profit but he still treats me fair, I can often handle guns first, he deals with the warranty departments if there is a problem, pays to send it back himself etc. The SERVICE you get from a real shop is worth the extra money.

nemesis
February 12, 2003, 02:13 PM
$20 for a transfer here but no background check calls as I'm not subject to NICS background checks.

SteyrAUG
February 12, 2003, 04:30 PM
Hutch, I'm glad you understand and please believe no offense was taken on my part.

And just to reiterate, this is just responsibility on my part. My business is my livlihood and how I provide for myself and family. And for that reason I cannot operate it as a well intentioned hobby.

And my pricing relfect no disdain or disrespect towards my customers. They are in fact, the lifeblood of my business. Without them, I have nothing. As a result I try and go far out of my way to take care of their needs and wants.

And "if" $25.00 transfers could actually support and maintain my business I would do it. But it just doesn't. I am one of the few FFLs in the area that actually makes money. Not a lot, but bills paid and McDonalds money at the end of the day is better than most.

spacemanspiff
February 12, 2003, 04:57 PM
you know steyraug, maybe a lot of us are just insanely jealous because you have many of the cool toys we drool over?

tell you what. you keep your current pricing for transfers, and let us run off a few mags worth in your toys. we'll supply the ammo, just give us 15 minutes alone with the object of our desire, and we'll call it even. :D

Wildalaska
February 12, 2003, 05:51 PM
now i am also under the impression that visitors to our state can ship their guns here, but it must be addressed to a state resident, so the sender couldnt be the receiver. this was explained to me at Norther Security. so if my brother wants to send his guns up when he visits from Arizona, he'd likely have to address it to me, being a state resident. or does it matter who its addressed to, as long as the 4473 reflects that the firearms were released to a state resident?

Spiff if you want send me a PM with your snail addy and I will mail a info sheet about bringing personal guns into Alaska...you DO NOT NEED to do a 4473...

SteyrAUG
February 12, 2003, 06:00 PM
spacemanspiff, next time you are down just tag along to the range. Bring ammo.

People shoot my stuff all the time.

Russ
February 12, 2003, 06:03 PM
When I lived in the PRK, one outfit wanted $100. Most wanted $50. Alot wouldn't do it at all. I knew I was going to move to Kentucky soon so I just waited. I had to order the gun I wanted here. I paid $25 more for it than I could have gotten it for at a gun shop 150 miles away so I didn't mind. I'd have more than that in gas and wear and tear. I still got the gun cheaper than they were selling worse variations of in the PRK.

www.gunbroker.com lists some transfer agents who seem to have reasonable prices. Never used them so I don't know if they are reliable but I'm guessing they are if they want to keep their FFL.

Alot of gun stores have bit the dust in the PRK so sometimes I see why they don't want to hassle it. They also make you do a whole bunch of paperwork for California that they don't do here in Kentucky. Slimy politicians are trying to run all the dealers out by making it too expensive to operate or taxing them to death. One clown Legistator proposed a 5 cent per bullet tax. It didn't fly but now that Red Davis has dug himself into such a deficit, I could see the commies passing it. The commie Legislature sure won't stand in the way.

tetchaje1
February 12, 2003, 06:12 PM
My FFL just barely bumped his transfer price up from $10 to $15. The first transfer he did for me he only charged $5.

I guess that I'm lucky.


With that said, though, I was quoted $80 for a P7M8 transfer once from a local rob-you-dry gunshop... :barf: :rolleyes:

SteyrAUG
February 12, 2003, 07:35 PM
tetchaje1, if you were buying it at dealer (around $800), then $80 would be a pathetic 10% markup. Retail on a P7 is $1,200.00.

Wildalaska
February 12, 2003, 08:17 PM
The question arose about shipping privately held firearms from your home to your destination..heres what I give out..



"THE BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS HAS PROVIDED THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION TO US. WE MAKE NO REPRESENTATION AS TO THE ACCURACY OF THIS INFORMATION AND YOU SHOULD CHECK WITH THE ATF OR YOUR LAWYER BEFORE SHIPPING OR TRANSPORTING FIREARMS TO ALASKA.

FLYING – If flying directly to or from Alaska, a person may include an UNLOADED firearm in checked baggage. You must notify the carrier when checking in, that the baggage contains a firearm. IT IS A VIOLATION OF LAW TO TRANSPORT A LOADED FIREARM BY AIR!!

DRIVING – If driving by automobile, you can:
Take sporting rifles and shotguns with you – Canadian law prohibits handguns, short barreled rifles and shotguns and fully automatic weapons. In general, firearms must be unloaded, out of reach, out of sight and stored separately from any ammunition in the vehicle. Call the Canadian Customs office in Vancouver, BC at (604) 666-0545, for more information about Canadian firearms laws.
OR

Ship the firearms to your destination – Prior to traveling through Canada, persons may ship UNLOADED firearms:

1. Directly to themselves, for example to their hotel or other destination*
2. To themselves, in care of an FFL, for example Joe Smith sends a rifle to an FFL in Alaska. Smith shows appropriate identification and retrieves the package containing the firearm(s) from the FFL. The package is not opened by the FFL and the firearm(s) is not recorded in the FFL’s records. Be sure to arrange this with the FFL ahead of time.
3. To themselves, in care of any other person legally able to receive firearms in another state. The recipient signs for the package, but does not open it.

*Do not send packages to any location, particularly FFLs, without arranging it ahead of time with the recipient.
NOTE: YOU MAY NOT SHIP HANDGUNS BY MAIL, YOU MUST USE A COMMON CARRIER. IF YOU WISH TO SHIP HANDGUNS WE RECOMMEND THAT YOU HAVE A DEALER FORWARD YOUR PACKAGE IN CARE OF ANOTHER DEALER.

NOTE: IT IS A VIOLATION OF LAW TO SHIP A LOADED FIREARM BY MAIL OR COMMON CARRIER. ALL SHIPPED FIREARMS MUST BE UNLOADED. AMMUNITION CANNOT BE MAILED!

ALASKA MARINE HIGHWAY – The same rules apply. Firearms are permitted in your baggage. If you’re stopping in Canada, remember that country’s laws will allow you to bring in sporting rifles and shotguns only. Call (800) 642-0066 for more information. Web site access is at http://www.akms.com/ferry/

BEFORE LEAVING THE U.S. travelers should register with the U.S. Customs Service, on a Customs Form 4457. These forms are available at local Port Offices throughout the country. To find the closest one to you, call the nearest office or check their web page at http://www.customs.ustreas.gov and click on TRAVELER INFORMATION. This form is the traveler’s proof that the item registered was in his/her possession prior to leaving the U.S. and will facilitate the clearance of firearms upon leaving Canada. Otherwise, U.S. Customs Service, at the point of re-entry, will hold firearms, to await importation by an FFL."

hammer4nc
February 12, 2003, 09:07 PM
This thread sure shows a wide spectrum of attitudes regarding marketing, customer service, etc., from both sides of the retail counter...God bless capitalism! People making economic choices.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, is that one of the biggest themes in the gun control movement, is "divide and conquer"; the govt. licenses dealers, then starts throwing in all kinds of detailed requirements, penalties for non-compliance, etc. Next thing you know, people are making choices based not so much on the fundemental business (in this case guns/retailing), but rather on perceptions related to the artificial govt. "hoops". Makes it a little different than selling, say...(insert commodity here).

Folks have always, and will continue to operate in their own best interests...thats the beauty of our system. Just seems like the overlay of regulation creates opportunities to alienate different segments of the gun enthusiast market...it sure doesn't help to bring them together, anyway. "Divide and conquer"...feeling manipulated.

vertigo7
February 12, 2003, 09:07 PM
My favorite dealer charges $15.00 for a transfer, including background check fees. She runs a police suppy shop and doesn't generally stock much in the way of guns, but she knows if I do see something I like in the display cabinet I'll probably buy it without haggling on the price even if I could get it a little cheaper elsewhere. I just picked up my new East German Makarov from her on Monday. :D If she expands her shop to sell guns full-time, she will get all my business.


vertigo7

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