Renewed Terrorist Threat - What Are You Doing to Prepare (if anything)?


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DonNikmare
May 26, 2004, 01:18 AM
In light of the recent renewed terrorist threat I'm wondering what you folks are doing or any of us can do to prepare?

I doubt that any type of attack would necessetate or be affected by private citizens' use of their guns. However, one never knows. We have already seen that terrorists are trying to think and act in unforeseen 'out of the box sort of ways.'

Me, I have a minimal water supply, and less than 1400 rounds of .38, .45, and .308 taken together.

I have been thinking about getting a set of walkie talkies, a camping type propane stove, and I'm not sure what else.

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larry_minn
May 26, 2004, 01:28 AM
I have unloaded my guns and put them in safe. Then I took off my pocket knife/most other weapons and put them away.

Then I recheck that I am totally unarmed and have some people use machines to make sure I have disarmed.

Finally I hop onto the same type of weapon that was used on 9-11. (airplane)


Makes lots of sense don't you think?

Josey
May 26, 2004, 01:30 AM
I bought an "extra" Lee reloader. I picked up some more W231 too. I still have stuff left from my 2000 "just in case" buying. I live in earthquake country, terrorists will just have to get in line.

winstonsmith
May 26, 2004, 01:31 AM
I'm going on with my daily life, exactly like the terrorists don't want me to do. I'm putting my faith in God that if I get maimed or killed in an attack it might wake some sheeple up.

I'm also getting ready for the day that I might be called upon to fight these terrorist myself. Or even fight the people who are seemingly becoming overzealous and quasi fascist in attempting to combat terrorism.

A rock and a hard place, eh?

GlockHobbit
May 26, 2004, 01:40 AM
I am going to remind my congress critters to not vote on a renewal of the assault weapons ban, even if 5 of the Qaeda scumbags go to a mall this summer with a few SAR's with an end goal of killing innocents using our constitutional freedoms. The end of our liberties is the main goal right? Is this how they can use democracy to end our freedom? Manipulate public opinion in an election year has happened recently in another country.

Justin
May 26, 2004, 01:45 AM
What am I doing?

Why, I'm quoting H.L. Mencken:

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace in a continual state of alarm (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing them with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

angrywalkindude
May 26, 2004, 02:01 AM
I went out and bought a car load of toilet paper. Someone has to clean up when TSHTF.

P95Carry
May 26, 2004, 02:08 AM
''Preparation'' is as ever I guess covering your butt with regard to emergency survival .... and that's a big subject.

I'll say tho as well .. each and every man and woman should be alert .. situational awareness is as vital as ever. Just possible some switched on regular Joe might - just might - thru being aware, stumble on a scam of terroristic nature .... and avert same.

Best we can do IMO.

''Expect the unexpected''.

Bainx
May 26, 2004, 07:08 AM
Get your money OUT of the stock market. If Dot-Com and 911 did not clean your plow, this next terrorist attack will!

mete
May 26, 2004, 07:22 AM
Since you can't have a secure homeland as long as you have unsecured borders the politicians should be executed for treason. Other than that load up and sharpen your knives.

Baba Louie
May 26, 2004, 07:38 AM
FoxNews said Uncle Sam warned of bio type attack this summer. So I'm sure that more duct tape, visqueen and gas masks will be the order of the day.
But as Bainx pointed out, the economy will take another hit.

But as to what am I doing about it (if anything)? Probably go pick up another brick or two of .22lr. You can never have enough .22 on hand.

Joe Demko
May 26, 2004, 08:34 AM
I have the usual emergency supplies on hand, same as I would for a hurricane, blizzard, etc. IOW, I'll go on living my life as I always have. This has more to do with controlling the populace than protecting it.

Foreign Devil
May 26, 2004, 08:45 AM
The threat to the average American from terrorism is miniscule.

Over 100,000 people have died on the highways since 9/11. More have died from heart disease, mundane health problems, etc.

It makes sense to have some extra water, food, batteries, etc. on hand as you would for a power outage or storm. It does not make sense to alter your lifestyle significantly on the threat of terrorism alone.

On the other hand if you just enjoy being prepared for the end of the world, then by all means go ahead. Just don't live in fear, and keep a sense of perspective.

TechBrute
May 26, 2004, 08:51 AM
The only thing I did to "prepare" for some sort of disaster was have the water company drop off an additional 6 bottles. So now we have 10 five-gallon bottles in the house at any given time. Aside from that, I've always had all that stuff everyone says to run out and get. We've got canned and packaged food in bulk (we buy at Costco.) I've got Duct Tape by the mile. Anyone that has to go out and buy Duct Tape for an emergency needs to have their head examined. You should have a roll in every car, and AT LEAST one roll at the house, terrorists or not. I've got plastic sheeting for painting (wife likes to change the bedroom colors several times a year.) While I don't keep stockpiles of ammo, I do buy by the case, so I can hold off mutant zombies or whatever for a little while. Oh yeah, we also buy TP at Costco, so no worries there.:D We used to camp A LOT, so we've got several stoves, not to mention a propane grill out back.

JamisJockey
May 26, 2004, 08:56 AM
Stocking my beer fridge, just in case they target grocery stores.
:neener:

Conspiracy man says:
Election year. Bubbya and his crew figger that we're all scared of the A-rab boogey man....the more they frighten us with non-specific threats, the more we should all turn to big, strong Uncle Sam to protect us little sheep. At least its self-perpetuating, since the war in Iraq is driving AlQuida recruitment up...

:banghead:

Atticus
May 26, 2004, 09:21 AM
Im keeping my eye on elderly white women to see if they may be hiding nail clippers or one of those little Swiss Army knives. :confused:

Lagadelphia
May 26, 2004, 09:25 AM
If I lived in an area that I considered a target area such as New York, L.A. etc...I'd have already figured out a "What if" plan and probably have the basics of emercency food and water on hand. I think that that would be the order of the day in California anyways due to earthquakes.

Here in my little patch of the world, I am not concerned with terrorist attack occuring here.

Ham Hock
May 26, 2004, 09:44 AM
I programmed "911" into my speed dialer on my phone.

VaughnT
May 26, 2004, 09:59 AM
Well, Don, let me ask you this. Instead of buying another toy (and God knows I love to buy my own toys!), why don't you invest that money in some quality fight training?

From my own experience, having just recently entered the realm of combat training, the knowledge gained is well worth the money spent and far more useful that yet another doodad in the arsenal.

Of course, this is coming from a guy that just bought a new Emerson P-SARK! :rolleyes:

Tamara
May 26, 2004, 10:01 AM
Renewed Terrorist Threat - What Are You Doing to Prepare (if anything)?

Buying stock in the manufacturers of duct tape, plastic sheeting, and gas masks.

The_Antibubba
May 26, 2004, 10:18 AM
Buy Lots Of Ammo Today!!!!!

:D

rick_reno
May 26, 2004, 11:05 AM
I'm looking around to see what new legislation the Bushkies might want in place. Historically, we get some onerous legislation enacted right after a terrorist attack, if I didn't know better I'd say they have this stuff sitting in the wings and ready to go when something happens. The Germans had their 1933 Reichstag Fire, Oaklahoma City produced the Counter Terrorism Bill of 1996 and 9/11 gave us the Patriot Act (who names these things?). What's next?

Griff
May 26, 2004, 11:10 AM
We're on double shifts. Your tax dollars HARD at work.

Werewolf
May 26, 2004, 11:32 AM
NOTE: I'm not recommending that anyone buy S&W stock...

I bought a 1000 shares of Smith & Wesson (swb) stock. Hey if there's a major terrorist attack just like after 911 more folks are gonna be buying guns and if they don't no biggy.

I checked out S&W. They're a small but very sound company. Though they lost money in the financial period ending Jan 2004 the loss is just accounting crap (I know I'm a financial analyst in real life). They did some restructuring, bought a bunch of capital equipment and paid back some on a loan. They actually have a decent mfg margin. They made 8M on 27M of sales and that's not bad.

Their net assets decreased by 8M but that was due to the reasons described above and most of the 8M reduction was in going from 12M in cash to 4M in cash to finance investment and operating activities.

Their P/E is hovering around 4 which is low for them and their industry. In addition from looking at the chart of 3 year prices the current price is now at a low resistance level of around $1.50 (current price as I write this is $1.59). Over the past 3 years around October or November the price peaks at around $2.50.

S&W is a very thinly traded stock (not a whole lot of volume on any given day) and thus is not as liquid as some traders might like.

Here's a link to S&W's 10-Q filing with the SEC if anyone is interested:

Smith & Wesson 10-Q (http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1092796/000095015304000654/p68930ae10vq.htm)

If history is any indicator I'll make a cool $1000 around November or so as I don't consider S&W a long term investment by any stretch of the imagination.

Andrew Rothman
May 26, 2004, 11:43 AM
Get your money OUT of the stock market. If Dot-Com and 911 did not clean your plow, this next terrorist attack will!

If you take out your money, you make nothing. If you short the market, you can be rich!

I'm short and happy, and up 20% on the year.

Sawdust
May 26, 2004, 12:20 PM
S&W is a very thinly traded stock (not a whole lot of volume on any given day) and thus is not as liquid as some traders might like.

Bummer. I like a little volume to protect against rapid swings and for liquidity.

If you short the market, you can be rich!

I don't have a pair large enough for that route. As a long in biotech, I get plenty of excitement and heartburn.:what:

Sawdust

Zak Smith
May 26, 2004, 12:35 PM
Pretty much the same as I should be doing anyway:

. keep extra cash on hand
. keep a good safety buffer in the checking and savings accounts - a year or two's reserve for expenses (eg, mortgage) is a good idea
. keep some extra food around the house
. keep some extra water around the house
. keep cars in good repair
. CCW as often as possible

-z

R.H. Lee
May 26, 2004, 01:16 PM
Really nothing different. I live on a mountaintop in a sparsely populated agricultural county between Los Angeles and San Francisco. Chances are any successful terrorist attack will be in a heavily populated urban area. I'll just watch the handwringing and recriminations on TV.

JamisJockey
May 26, 2004, 01:31 PM
keep extra cash on hand

Cash is really only good for short term emergencies. For long term, ammo (.22lr being the standard), extra food, and TP are beleived to be the TEOTWAWKI barter of choice.

keep cars in good repair
To expound, everyone should have a basic car repair kit, and know a little bit about car maintenece. Keep aftermarket repair manuals for any vehicle you have, that way you can (attempt to) fix it yourself if necessary.

M2 Carbine
May 26, 2004, 01:36 PM
Quote
"Atticus
Im keeping my eye on elderly white women to see if they may be hiding nail clippers or one of those little Swiss Army knives. "
__________________________________________________________


I guess I'll sit and watch the deaths pile up as I reload ammo.

I figure it will take 2 more 9-11's before the politically correct idiots and trators in this country are shut up and we start going after the terriorists cowards like the Jews went after the excaped Nazis after WW2.

One thing for sure it will get a lot worse before it gets better.

Joe Demko
May 26, 2004, 01:45 PM
like the Jews went after the excaped Nazis after WW2.

Funny, I don't recall Israel invading anybody or getting embroiled in any wars in the course of pursuing Nazi war criminals. AFAIK, they accomplished it all with good intelligence, bribery (as needed), and some pretty skillful covert ops by the Mossad.

Pheonix
May 26, 2004, 01:56 PM
I will use this as an excuse (to the wife) to buy a back-up gun!!:D

M2 Carbine
May 26, 2004, 01:59 PM
Golgo-13

You remember back then? I do.

It was called WW2.

The Jews were murdered for no cause.

Kind of like the folks in the twin towers.
I'm sure you remember that.

Don't worry if you don't, there will be more and maybe the first reaction will be to go after the cowards instead of the first reaction being to critize our government and country.

Joe Demko
May 26, 2004, 02:02 PM
Which events are you even talking about? The Holocaust or the Israeli hunt for escaped Nazis? You made the statement that we should start going after the terriorists cowards like the Jews went after the excaped Nazis after WW2.

I pointed out that the Israelis accomplished that w/o a war. That seems to have upset you for some reason.

M2 Carbine
May 26, 2004, 02:52 PM
No, of course I'm not upset except with "us" for being such idiots.

We will sit here taking fingernail clippers away from old ladies instead of hunting down and killing our enemies in every way possible.

And we will continue being "nice guys" and scared of what France, etc thinks of us, until we finally have had enough, which will be many dead from now.


I only mention the Jews because they are the only ones I know of that seem to pay back what they get.

Of course it took six million dead Jews before they got tough.

I hope it doesn't take six million dead Americans before we get tough.

That's all, no more soap box for today.:)

Werewolf
May 26, 2004, 02:53 PM
M2 Carbine opined that:I figure it will take 2 more 9-11's before the politically correct idiots and trators in this country are shut up

At lunch today on the radio I heard some government guy doing a news conference state that there is very strong intelligence pointing to Al Queda conducting a "major" attack on the US during the summer or early fall of this year. He stated that Al Queda spokesman are claiming that 90% of the preparations for that attack are complete ( :confused: sounded strange that they'd make that claim to me).

The potential targets he listed were the G8 Summit and the Democratic and Republican conventions.

He also mentioned that the intelligence indicates that Al Queda believes that they can have the same socio-political impact on the US as they did on Spain by conducting this attack.

If the gubmint and M2 are correct we'll be half way to the point of blissninnies in this country waking up.

Personally (unless AQ does something really stupid like setting off a Nuke or something else that kills in the 100's of thousands) I think that Al Queda is right and that the general US population will scream and shout for the country to get the hell out of Dodge and everywhere else we aren't wanted. We'll be curling up into our shell like a snail that had salt poured on it.

Call me cynical if you will but The folks running this country and the general run of the mill average Joe just don't have the same backbone that our Grandparents did.

Zak Smith
May 26, 2004, 03:07 PM
keep extra cash on handCash is really only good for short term emergencies. For long term, ammo (.22lr being the standard), extra food, and TP are beleived to be the TEOTWAWKI barter of choice.
The point I was subtly making is that the Islamo-Fascist Terrorists are incapable of causing TEOTWAWKI or an extended SHTF, or any SHTF in my locale that would require guns. The most likely impact would be more or less temporary disruption of the economy. Locally, a fire or chem/bio issue might require a bug-out to a support area.

Let's be realistic. Islamo-Fascist Terrorists cannot cause the dead to rise causing our favorite zombie scenarios; they might be able to detonate a dirty bomb, but they are incapable of causing a nuclear TEOTWAWKI; and they cannot ferry enough Chineese to our coasts for an invasion.

Being prepared against terrorist attack is mainly: keeping your head; having general preparations such as are appropriate for a local natural disaster or big winter storm; and being vigilant with regard to normal personal defense.

JamisJockey
May 26, 2004, 03:10 PM
It was called WW2. The Jews were murdered for no cause.
Which is not why we got involved in WWII. Jews were being rounded up long before we got involved. IIRC right, after Japan declared war on and attacked us, Hitler decided to declare war on us as well.
Without that official declaration, its dubious as to when we would have gotten fully involved against Hitler.

JamisJockey
May 26, 2004, 03:20 PM
The point I was subtly making is that the Islamo-Fascist Terrorists are incapable of causing TEOTWAWKI

No offense meant.
Of course, in an SHTF scenerio, even something short term, food, water, and luxury items like coffee and TP might be more powerful barter items than money.
That said, you may need the money to secure items anyways. I'd make sure to keep it in small denominations (5's and 1's)...even with price gouging the smaller denominations will make it easier ("sorry, I don't have change...if you really want it I guess you need to give me that hundred dollar bill there...")

Sawdust
May 26, 2004, 03:35 PM
I'd make sure to keep it in small denominations (5's and 1's)...even with price gouging the smaller denominations will make it easier

Absolutely; the vast majority of my SHTF cash stash is in ones and fives.

Sawdust

Gordon Fink
May 26, 2004, 03:39 PM
Even though most of the terrorists will come from Saudi Arabia, I’ll prepare to invade Syria … or maybe Iran. :D

~G. Fink

rayra
May 26, 2004, 04:29 PM
Rode out the Northridge Earthquake two blocks from the apartment buildings that collapsed. Plenty of large fires near my current homes north of L.A. and in the Sierras. Thus my SHTF stocks are pretty complete.

When it comes to domestic terrorists, I'm keeping my eyes on the insane Leftists that post on DU and Indymedia. And keeping tabs on the nearest Islamic Jihad HQs / arsenals (http://www.islamicbulletin.org/enterhere/Enter-masjid.htm)

Bravo11
May 26, 2004, 04:56 PM
First I'm going to a friends fathers store on the outskirts of town and get all the guns/ammo, sleeping bags and food I can. Then I'm heading for the mountains with all my friends and live off the land while fighting an insurgent war against the terrorists. I think I'll call me group the Wolverines after my high school mascot.
Later we'll hook up with some chicks like Carolyn in the City and the Dirty Dancing girl.:D

M2 Carbine
May 26, 2004, 04:57 PM
Quote
Werewolf
Call me cynical if you will but The folks running this country and the general run of the mill average Joe just don't have the same backbone that our Grandparents did.
__________________________________________________________


Werewolf,

One of the advantages/disadvantages of living over a half a century, I'm 66, is seeing how far in most things, our country has sunk.


Since this a gun board this is a gun example.

When I was a young kid in the city, it was no big deal for me to be walking down the street with a 22 rifle under my arm, coming back from plinking.
The only question I might be asked was, Hey boy how was the shooting. Can you shoot that thing pretty good.

There were no drive by shootings, no bad seed little cowards shooting their school mates. Almost no missuse of guns at all by kids.

If you had a beef with another kid you kicked his butt or he kicked yours. Then everybody went and played baseball.

(come to think of it most all the time somebody had a black eye but it was hard to see on the black kids :D )


YOU know what we have now.
A child is treated like a criminal if he points his finger at someone.

In my wildest dreams I could never have believed this country would be in this shape.

Now kids are taught to be cowards, to be weak, that losing and failure is right and even good, that guns are bad (because they allow you not to be weak).

This has happened so gradually that we accept it as normal.
We even jokingly call some states, the peoples republic of XXX.

Were screwed.:(

RevDisk
May 26, 2004, 06:37 PM
Call me cynical if you will but The folks running this country and the general run of the mill average Joe just don't have the same backbone that our Grandparents did.


Hmm, my generation. Civil rights are pretty much a joke these days. Ask anyone in their 20's or younger 30's if Social Security will be around when they retire. Ha! Public schools are moreso prisons than educational institutes. Oh yea, and you get charged with a felony if you bring a pair of nail clippers or a screwdriver with you.

My boss told me that when he was drafted, a carton of smokes cost $2 in the PX. Last time I looked, they were $38. Buddy of mine in NYC told me smokes run $8 or $9 a pack, and you really can't smoke anywhere outside your home. Reading newspapers informed me that the people that waged a war against tobacco are next going after junk food and alcohol. Yea, Prohibition worked so well last time.

Terrorism is not about the innocent people killed. The point of terrorism is to scare a population, to terrorize them. I'm a thousand times more likely to die in a car accident, get cancer, fall in the shower, bitten by a shark or get struck by lightning than to be killed by a terrorist.

I'm a lot more concerned about giving up civil liberties than dying as a result of terrorism. I don't give terrorism any more thought than I do any other remote SHTF situation. Earthquakes, fires, floods or snowstorms are a lot more likely. Shady energy companies intentionally shutting down power grids to make a profit is a stronger possibility than terrorists knocking down the grid.


Want to really combat terrorism? Patrol the borders, allow citizens to carry, stop prop'ing up evil regimes that brutally repress their people, and stop letting certain corporations run America into the ground.

Zak Smith
May 26, 2004, 06:42 PM
Civil rights are pretty much a joke these days. Ask anyone in their 20's or younger 30's if Social Security will be around when they retire.
I hope you don't consider SS a "civil right."

Let me opt out of SS today.

-z

Chris Rhines
May 26, 2004, 06:43 PM
I'm cowering in the basement. :D

- Chris

Shanghai McCoy
May 26, 2004, 06:54 PM
Well let's see,in the 50 years that I have stumbled around this planet we have had Kruschev,Cuban missle crisis,civil unrest in the 60's,some earthquakes and fires when I was still in California and a host of other "threats".Frankly,I'm tired of it all.If the Islamo-whatevers hit then ,hopefully,we will "deal with it".Since I live in a part of the country that is ignored by most citizens I won't sweat this latest worry of the week.
Besides,it's Tornado season so I have enough on my mind as it is....

And to keep it gun related,we are well stocked in guns and ammo down in the basement.Back off Auntie Em,that's MY stuff...

Moparmike
May 26, 2004, 07:03 PM
What am I doing for the RTT? Sitting at ground zero of a potential terrorist target. Not 100yds behind me is the preparation for the Walmart Shareholders Convention, and I once heard that it was supposedly #3 on the hitlist. A rumor I am sure, but a plausible one at that, as it is the world's largest retailer, and knocking out either the shareholder's convention or the HQ in Bentonville would deal a serious blow to the region and the nation.

Can you imagine if every Walmart on earth was suddenly unable to sell any products, or only had a 2-day supply for the month it would take WM to get back on its feet?:eek:

Eric Bryant
May 26, 2004, 07:58 PM
I plan a night of reloading and knife sharpening.

In other words, exactly what I had planned before this morning's hysteria.

By tomorrow morning, I'll probably be taken-in by all the hype and I'll grab an extra mag to throw in the car. Like I need an excuse ;)

I do love the fact that we've got 7 people that are wanted by the FBI based on "credible intelligence" and a "hightened threat", and yet Mr. LiteBrite isn't raising the threat level? I guess I'm kinda curious now exactly what justifies an increase.

Barbara
May 26, 2004, 08:08 PM
The TEOTWAWKI has already happened. I accidently agreed with E.L. Doctorow on something.

Kill me, please.

4v50 Gary
May 26, 2004, 09:09 PM
Me? I'm going to enrich the economy of the Midwest by going there. It's time to build an iron mounted Southern rifle.:)

WonderNine
May 26, 2004, 09:17 PM
Here in my little patch of the world, I am not concerned with terrorist attack occuring here.

No, nobody would ever blow up a federal building in OK would they...:scrutiny:

DonNikmare
May 27, 2004, 02:21 AM
Well, Don, let me ask you this. Instead of buying another toy (and God knows I love to buy my own toys!), why don't you invest that money in some quality fight training?

Number 1, I'm too lazy. Number 2, I'm too busy. I could go on and on but I doubt I will discover a good excuse.

I have a hard time understanding the open borders deal. Just don't get it no matter what way I look at it. The economy argument - well, what could be worse for it than another terrorist attack. The political power explanation - well, if open borders are identified as a major reason for another terrosist attack no amount of illegal or legalized immigrants would be able to keep a group of poloticians or anyone politician in power and so on and so forth.

I grew up in a closed border country. Very few people got out and very few people got in without the goverment's knowldge and permission. Imagine several lines of barbwire fence with freshly tilled ground inbetween each (to show tracks and slow down runners). One of the fences would have an electric current running through it, touching it would set off an alarm in one of many border patrol army unit bases spread along the border every few miles. An army border unit would be qucikly dispatched to run down anyone getting across. German shepards are/were part of every patrol unit.

In third or forth grade, we were taken on a field trip and allowed to see a german shepard chase and take down a trainer. We were told that would happen to us if we ever tried to cross. Mountains or not it was all fenced and guarded 24/7.

Granted the US is a lot bigger than Bulgaria (about the size of TN) but you gotta start somewhere. Given the current level of threat it is beyond me that borders are not better guarded and protected in the way they should be and no real effort is made to get a start on it. I watched a special on PBS a while back and most border potrol officers interviewed seem to say that they often arrest and deport folks trying to get across over and over again.

PC crap, internationally of intranationally focused, is another pitfall in my opinion. Random checks seem like a gimmick to me. Old grandma's are being searched and bothered, while others ignored 'cause the puter didn't pull them up. I say search everyone or intelligently profile. I think profiling has more to do with common sense than any type of discrimination. Bush is trying to bring terrorist to "justice" but when a palestinian terrorist leader is brought to "justice" the White House finds it "very disturbing."

I'm not happy to live with any chance of a terrorist attack affecting me no matter how small it may be. The fact that it could and will affect some innocent citizens is enough.

Nik

Wolfy
May 27, 2004, 05:17 AM
Can someone translate what TEOTWAWKI means.

Sportcat
May 27, 2004, 06:34 AM
The End Of The World As We Know It

TEOTWAWKI

TerryBob
May 27, 2004, 07:29 AM
My wife is going to college and has a couple of Army officers in her class. One of these guys was injured in the Pentagon on 9 11. They said that they are expecting female suicide bombers to hit the malls around the country. They are supposed to look as though they are pregnant. This may or not be true but this is what they told the class.

TerryBob

stevelyn
May 27, 2004, 08:03 AM
I plan on doing what I always do out here.........try and stay in outa the wind and rain.

TechBrute
May 27, 2004, 08:33 AM
My wife is going to college and has a couple of Army officers in her class. One of these guys was injured in the Pentagon on 9 11. They said that they are expecting female suicide bombers to hit the malls around the country. They are supposed to look as though they are pregnant. This may or not be true but this is what they told the class. The first time someone gives my wife crap for being pregnant, you're going to hear about me on the evening news.

RevDisk
May 27, 2004, 09:56 AM
I hope you don't consider SS a "civil right." Let me opt out of SS today.

Whoopsy, didn't mean to incorporate the two together, civil liberties and SS.


On the other hand, I get a little honked off that a chunk of my paycheck is taken from me and I might never see it again. And I of course have no alternate as I'm not allowed to opt out. Dang it, that's money I can spend on firearms!

ctdonath
May 27, 2004, 10:22 AM
I have a hard time understanding the open borders deal. ... I grew up in a closed border country. Very few people got out and very few people got in without the goverment's knowldge and permission.

It's that "out" part that is the problem, as in "very few people got out ... without the government's ... permission."

Fences stop people on both sides of it. The gatekeepers controlling who gets in can, on a whim, decide to prevent anyone from leaving - a power which those in control can very easily enslave a free people. Recall your example of being a youth being shown "if you try to leave, you will die." A very bad situation indeed, as demonstrated by most closed border countries.

I frequently drive to Canada. Only once was I stopped & questioned while leaving the USA - it was one of the most disturbing moments of my life: whaddayamean I can only leave if an armed bureaucrat lets me? Fortunately it was a fluke.

Part of living in a free country is the freedom to leave. Fences wreck that.

Lagadelphia
May 27, 2004, 10:39 AM
No, nobody would ever blow up a federal building in OK would they...

As we are talking about Islamic terrorists in this thread, I'm not worried about them hitting here.

Master Blaster
May 27, 2004, 10:40 AM
This has made me realize I'm out of Yeungling black and tan Beer.
Probably need some Cuervo Gold and Triple Sec too, for the guests I'm having over for a BBQ this Holiday weekend. I also need some suntan lotion for the pool party on Saturday.

Makes me real glad I dont live in some socialist hellhole like NYC, LA or Chicago.

Master Blaster
May 27, 2004, 10:54 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
start going after the terriorists cowards like the Jews went after the excaped Nazis after WW2.
I pointed out that the Israelis accomplished that w/o a war. That seems to have upset you for some reason.--------------------------------


Actually the Isrealis who only came into existance as such 4 years after the war ended, had no need to invade Germany since the Americans, Brits and Russians had already completely destroyed the country.

If you want to know what happened to German civilians in WWII do a search on Dresden and Firebombing. What we did no Iraq and Afghanistan is nothing compared to what we did to Japanese and German civilians in a real war.

Highland Ranger
May 27, 2004, 06:41 PM
Its time for either a ceremonial gun or ammo purchase.

Since I bought two guns last week (and as such it doesn't count), I'll go with ammo.

Baba Louie
May 27, 2004, 07:50 PM
...terriorists cowards...
I have a hard time equating them with cowardice. On the contrary, they are brave enough to die for a belief. The question is, will we remain cohesive and remain brave enough to carry the fight to them, no matter the consequences? Here we are doing the equivilent of marching in rank wearing redcoats fighting by rules they shun but still we feel we MUST comply with said rules of engagement or be derided for sinking to their level of terror.

Sometimes "Tit for Tat" is right and proper.

As long as we are a $$ friend to Israel, as long as we feel the need for OPEC oil and have any troops stationed in the mid-east, as long as young men and women in the mid-east are taught to hate the US with a fury we can't begin to imagine... they will come.

They have come. I think they are here, now. They learned Pre-Election eruption works to their advantage. Get ready. Let's see if we roll over with a tucked tail and a whimper or get all kinds of fired up when it comes.

Somewhere, several someones must be laughing their heads off as we chastise our administration over failure to find WMD, point fingers at each other over 9-11, cringe in embarrassment over Abu Ghirab, force liberties to be ground into shambles while they continue to kill innocents, hide in Mosques, hospitals and schools, behead non-combatants, hang charred bodies after dragging them through the streets... different sets of rules certainly makes for an interesting war. We've faced similar situations in the past.

Gotta go out and keep watch for any pregnant middle eastern women with adams' apples and 5 O'Clock shadows while Uncle Sugar keeps fingernail clippers off of ticketed airline passengers. Holiday weekend coming up doncha know? :scrutiny:

P95Carry
May 27, 2004, 08:07 PM
One of the (THE perhaps) main success ... if you can use the word about terrorism .. is that they have since 9/11 been able to instill fear and apprehension ... without doing anything.

We assume there will another episode ... very likely but ... even if not ... they have managed to produce an atmosphere of unease .... and they can heighten and maintain that for a long time .. still with no actual action per se. Plus .. to counter this we are now under greater restrictions of freedom .. which could worsen further .... another ''victory'' if you will, that they have achieved.

I had this thru an email source today ...... About suspects (http://www.emergencyemail.org/terrorinfo.asp) about whom I imagine info is being sought.

TechBrute
May 27, 2004, 08:46 PM
I have a hard time equating them with cowardice. On the contrary, they are brave enough to die for a belief. We'd be happy to oblige, except that they wear masks when they cut the throat of bound victims, they shoot from behind women and children, they strap bombs on themselves and blow up eating establishments with no intention except to cause fear.

They are COWARDS.

WhiteKnight
May 27, 2004, 09:51 PM
I watched a special on PBS a while back and most border potrol officers interviewed seem to say that they often arrest and deport folks trying to get across over and over again.

Sounds like a problem a single round of 00 buck would solve instantaneously.

SteelyDan
May 28, 2004, 01:21 AM
WhiteKnight, I hope I'm reading you wrong, but in case I'm not I think you're way out of line.

WonderNine
May 28, 2004, 04:56 AM
As we are talking about Islamic terrorists in this thread, I'm not worried about them hitting here.


You mean like the ones that helped TM blow up the Murrah Federal buidling? :scrutiny:

Werewolf
May 28, 2004, 09:37 AM
WhiteKnight, I hope I'm reading you wrong, but in case I'm not I think you're way out of line.

If you're all ate up with political correctness you best not read further. YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!

Why is WhiteKnight out of line?

WhiteKnight's solution to keep folks from illegally crossing our borders is highly pragmatic and if implemented with extreme diligence would solve the problem of folks sneaking in to the US fairly quickly.

Otherwise just open the borders up and we can play educator, physician, and general all around provider to every Francois, Hans, Pedro, Igor and Lili Lee that wants a free ride courtesy of Uncle Sugar.

The US' historical "come on in" attitude towards immigration had it's roots in pragmatism. The US is a huge country. It needed people to build it and make it work. Well now we've got all the people we need. We don't need anymore and the "come on in" attitude has got to go. We don't need anyone else's "huddled masses" - we've got plenty of our own to take care of now.

Unlike 100 years ago when immigrants came here and learned English and adopted the contemporary culture now a days they tend, because of the Politicaly Correct notion of Multiculturalism, to retain both their language and culture thus becoming groups within a group. If things keep up the way they're going there won't be a United States in 100 years just a 100 different cultures/languages all struggling to retain their individual identities instead of a blended group all working together to keep the US great.

The liberals like to use the hackneyed phrase "melting pot" to forward their multiculturalism agenda. Well they don't have a clue about that. A melting pot melted and allowed the alloying of weak metals into one stronger one. The individual metals did not retain their characteristics but became as one. That was true of immigration in the US in past days. It isn't now. The days of the melting pot have been gone since the early 70's.

GEM
May 28, 2004, 09:48 AM
The alerts are meaningless. There is little one can do IMHO. I have to fly for business. I have to go to work. If I don't work I lose my house and live under a bridge with my family.

My job allows no armed preparedness. We have no plans for evacuation, response to shooters, etc. that will save me in real time.

Truly draconian measures to take out all potential Islamic terrorist are probably antithetical to our liberties. It might come to that if we were truly pushed with repeated suicide bombings, for example.

To answer the original question, I am doing nothing beyond my already normal preparations for trouble.

I have little trust in these warnings anyway. I'm cynical about their validity and the motivation behind them (from some parties at least).

Gordon Fink
May 28, 2004, 11:54 AM
WhiteKnight's solution to keep folks from illegally crossing our borders is highly pragmatic and if implemented with extreme diligence would solve the problem of folks sneaking in to the US fairly quickly.

Yes, it might solve part of the problem or at least stem the tide a little bit, but at what cost?

Killing migrants, who mostly seek nothing but better opportunities, would be straight-up murder. Anyone who participated in such an activity, under the color of authority or not, would be a far greater criminal than the “illegal” immigrants themselves. It’s that simple.

Let’s shut off the welfare spigot that allegedly makes “illegal” immigrants such a burden on our society. That solution would be both pragmatic and morally just.

~G. Fink

SteelyDan
May 28, 2004, 10:27 PM
Werewolf, your guess that I worship at the alter of political correctness is only fractionally as wrong as your apparent belief that premeditated murder can be justified on the grounds of immigration control.

Werewolf
May 29, 2004, 12:25 PM
SteelyDan said:
Werewolf, your guess that I worship at the alter of political correctness is only fractionally as wrong as your apparent belief that premeditated murder can be justified on the grounds of immigration control.

Most here would agree that shooting someone entering your home illegaly and with intent to steal from you is justified. In Oklahoma that justification is codified by law.

Someone illegaly entering the United States with the intent of utilizing our health, education and other safety net systems is no different from the person illegally entering one's home with intent to steal. Both are criminals, both want that which is not theirs.

A society, a country, has the right to protect itself from those that mean to do it harm. Shooting illegal immigrants coming across the border is no different from one shooting a burglar illegally entering one's home.

It is in my opinion sheer hypocrisy to say one action is OK but the other is not.

Art Eatman
May 29, 2004, 12:49 PM
Werewolf, seems to me your view stems in large part from frustration with the lack of border controls by our federal government. It's the old bit where people justifiably wonder about who is to do what when "duly constituted authority" refuses to act.

The problem with just upping and shooting is that the assumption is made that All Are Bad, if they try to come across. Some may be would-be terrorists; some may be looking for the giveaway supports our Nanny State offers, but most are just looking for work in order to send money home to the wife so she can feed the kids.

I have, in the parlance, "worked wetbacks," and have a certain sympathy for them as well as respect.

I have also ranched, and know full well the difficulties of maintaining water supplies in a desert. I am totally in sympathy with the ranchers in Arizona and understand the problems they have with the illegals. Were I there, I'd feel a strong urge to shoot.

Howsomever, that ain't the right answer.

Art

DonNikmare
May 29, 2004, 11:10 PM
Werewolf & WhiteKnight, you two need some Sensitivity Training!







































Just Kidding. I knew that would get you going :D

I wouldn't go as far as calling it "murder". I'm sure that if that policy was ever adopted, there would be plenty of warning signs posted in both eniglish and spanish as well as some other languages. Knowing how sensative the US goverment can be they'd probably have running multi language recordings for those who can't read.

If I decide to take a walk into area 51 or other such area while ignoring the warning signs and some soldier shoots me, he would not be murdering me, just doing his job. I'd be committing suicide.

There is too much sensitivity, too much trying to understand why the criminals/ terrorists are doing what they are doing. There isn't enough action. There also isn't enough tolerance of fellow Americans with opposing to PC crap views. If you have been at a major undergraduate or graduate institution in the last 10 years, you probably know exactly what I'm talking about.

R.H. Lee
May 29, 2004, 11:43 PM
I wouldn't go as far as calling it "murder".

I would. And so would any reasonable man, or 12 reasonable men on any jury anywhere. Shooting an unarmed person who has done nothing more than cross a border in the desert without any malicious intent is cold blooded first degree murder in my book. Frankly, as a fellow gun owner, I'm ashamed of you. Lethal force is to be used ONLY, ONLY against lethal force.

I don't like illegal immigration and its consequences any more than you do. However, your ire needs to be directed at your elected representatives who not only allow, but encourage illegal immigration through incentives such as free healthcare and welfare, etc., ad nauseum.:barf: WITH YOUR MONEY.

Joey2
May 29, 2004, 11:54 PM
I will be cowering in the corner waiting for the knock on the door and a voice on the other side saying, " I'am from the government and I'am here to hep ya.";)

Werewolf
May 30, 2004, 10:48 AM
Lethal force is to be used ONLY, ONLY against lethal force.
When speaking about a private citizen and his/her right to use lethal force I would tend to agree with what you've said with some caveats that aren't really germane to this discussion.

However, a society, state, government or other legally recognized and sanctioned authority does not now or have they ever had to play by the same rules as those that an individual does regarding lethal force. Governments kill people all the time. It isn't murder when it is done to protect the society the governent serves. It is in fact a moral imperative that governments use what ever means is available to them right up to and including lethal force to protect the society it is bound to serve.

[rant mode on]

Regarding those who illegaly cross our borders. THEY ARE CRIMINALS WHO ARE BREAKING OUR LAWS AND STEALING FROM OUR SOCIETY. In fact the only difference there is between them and an invading army is the invading army does less damage in the long run. We'd shoot an invading army, we shoot those who invade our homes. Why don't we shoot invading illegals? Is shooting them as they cross the border a correct and moral thing to do? Maybe - maybe not.

My original point was that as draconian as the solution is it would work - at least as far as eliminating repeaters.

It is entirely irrelevant that illegals just want a better life. The United States and it's citizens are not bound either legally or morally to provide it for them. If they want a better life then they are welcome to work within their own societies to improve it. If they can't or aren't willing and they want in the United States then they should follow the proper procedures. If they can't do that and they still try to come in they're criminals - pure and simple.

Currently we round 'em up and in many, many cases don't even send 'em back when they're ID's as illegals. Well I'm tired of my tax dollars going to support them. I'm tired of my tax dollars going to government grants so they can start new businesses while US Citizens don't qualify for the same benefit. I'm tired of my country being the mommy, daddy, teacher, doctor and cop to the world!

And I've written to Mr Bush and both Senators and my congressman to complain about our open borders and especially Bush's proposed PC, vote getting amnesty. But I'm just one middle class guy - they don't listen to me.

[rant mode off]

JeepDriver
May 30, 2004, 11:02 AM
My basement is well stocked.

I have 5 cases of water, 3 cases of beer, plenty of venison and canned foods, TP is stocked up as well a 2 liter bottles of Mountain Dew.

Propane stoves, grill and lantern are all in good working order.

Over 10,000 rounds of assorted ammo on hand, most of which is 5.56, 7.62 (x39 & x51), 9mm & 12ga.

But that's just a day to day thing for me. I haven't really done anything new. I may grab a few more cases of beer and water......

Tamara
May 30, 2004, 11:14 AM
The US' historical "come on in" attitude towards immigration had it's roots in pragmatism. The US is a huge country. It needed people to build it and make it work. Well now we've got all the people we need. We don't need anymore and the "come on in" attitude has got to go. We don't need anyone else's "huddled masses" - we've got plenty of our own to take care of now.

I gotta hand it to you, it takes an immense amount of stones (as well as a complete absence of tact) to toss off something like that on a board run by Oleg Volk.


DonNikmare,

I have a hard time understanding the open borders deal. ... I grew up in a closed border country.

Trust me when I say that most Americans would rather not see the US run like Bulgaria, okay? :uhoh:

DonNikmare
May 30, 2004, 12:56 PM
Trust me when I say that most Americans would rather not see the US run like Bulgaria, okay?

Nobody is talking about running the US as Bulgaria was run. It's a matter of common sense. There are thousands of people who would like to come in to the US for terrorist purposes. As things are now, they can easily sneak in from Mexico or Canada. I'm simply saying that closed borders make sense. People from other contries would continue to be able to come in to the US - they would just be forced to do it legally.

It has taken Israel thousands of dead and many many terrorist attacks to get where they are. They are trying to 'close a border' by building a wall and recently did kill some palestinians who were trying to get through by digging tunnels. I in no way thought it was "murder".

I'm not condoning shooting people illegally trying to cross the border. I am saying that doing so is within the realm of things the government has the right to do. It is extreme but not totally unexceptable.

I also don't think having closed borders will limmit americans' freedom and right to travel. At least not while americans still have the right to elect their government.

Nik

DesertEagle613
May 30, 2004, 03:06 PM
"It has taken Israel thousands of dead and many many terrorist attacks to get where they are. They are trying to 'close a border' by building a wall and recently did kill some palestinians who were trying to get through by digging tunnels. I in no way thought it was "murder"."

A few points:

1. The wall is intended not to seal off Gaza in the sense that you mean, but to act as a regulatory tool. Thousands of Gazans cross into Green Line Israel every day to work, passing through the checkpoints to do so. The suicide bombers are (ideally) stopped at the checkpoint.

While such a border would make sense for America in the abstract, it's much harder to build up a border thousands of miles long than one about 100 miles long. Perhaps the money and effort is worth it, but I would start by restricting Welfare and similar programs first.

2. The reason that lethal force was used against the Palestinians was not merely because they were "digging tunnels," but because of what they were bringing through them, namely, anti-tank rockets and similar heavy weaponry. Disrupting simple human-smuggling networks is given a shamefully low priority in Israel, which has become a central hub in organized crime-run prostitution rings. (The sooner that these are smashed, the better for everyone...:banghead: )

There seems little evidence that aliens from Mexico (aside from druggies) want anything more than jobs or money. The terror networks deployed on 9/11 largely entered the country from other avenues. If we should get specific warning of a terror infiltration, it would justify lethal force, but using such force on simple illegals is grossly disproportionate.

In the end, defensive measures are only partly efffective against asymmetrical warfare, because the BG's will keep looking for a target until they find one. The key is counterinsurgency, in a flexible form to match the flexible enemy.

Werewolf
May 30, 2004, 06:40 PM
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