End of Trail moving to NM. Residents worried.


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4570Rick
May 26, 2004, 04:54 AM
URL: http://www.mvtelegraph.com/177678mtnview05-20-04.htm
Thursday, May 20, 2004

End of Trail Worries Locals

By Ruben Gonzales and Kathy Louise Schuit

Mountain View Telegraph


The Single Action Shooting Society and the megabucks associated with its annual Old West-style events plan to bless Torrance County in 2005.
Some residents living near the site of the extravaganza wonder what happened to the county's notification and hearing process.
On March 2, the Torrance County Planning and Zoning Commission approved a permanent conditional-use permit for SASS to hold its annual End of Trail event on 480 acres in the far northwest corner of the county.
The property, purchased by SASS earlier this year, lies at the corner of Juan Tomas Road and Barton Road— a part of Torrance County bordered by Bernalillo County to the west and Santa Fe County to the north.
Residents living along N.M. 217, the most-improved vehicle entrance to the property, met Monday to discuss their fears and concerns about the arrival of SASS into their neighborhood.
The SASS annual End of Trail event has a history of attracting up to 25,000 people to the group's previous home in Norco, Calif. It includes re-enactments of historical moments from the Old West and famous scenes from Western movies.
The shooting of live rounds and blanks from single-action pistols and rifles is also part of the program. N.M. 217 residents want to know who will regulate that activity.
They also have questions about water and waste disposal on the property— where 800 sites for recreational vehicles and several permanent "bunkhouse"-type structures are planned— and wonder if campfires will be allowed in the high-fire-danger month of May, when the End of Trail event is scheduled to occur annually.
Additionally, the residents say they are curious about why there were no public hearings for the conditional use or even a presentation to the Torrance County Commission.
"Public hearings aren't required," said Doug Johnston, Torrance County planning officer.
Under current Torrance County zoning regulations, Johnston said, the planning and zoning board may approve conditional uses if certain specifications are met. In this case, he said, the group meets those specifics through its educational mission and a plan that answers the residents' concerns:


All weapons are of the single-action variety— requiring that the hammer be cocked prior to each shot. "These are not modern, high-powered weapons," Johnston said;

The water source at the property was established by the previous owner— a 250,000-gallon water tank filled by a single well has for years supplied water to the ranch that in the past served as home to large herds of cattle, buffalo and other range animals;

Sewage will mostly be handled with portable facilities;

The group will have its own volunteers as well as the help of both Torrance County and Bernalillo County sheriff's departments for traffic control and other crowd-monitoring efforts.
In addition to the End of Trail event, the property will also regularly play host to the filming of historical and educational documentaries, photographers and writers from Outdoor Life magazine and gun safety schools, said Torrance County Manager Bob Ayre.
Most of the gross receipts taxes generated by participants— whose median age falls in the 50-65 range— and spectators will come to Edgewood and Albuquerque, Ayre said.
Ken Amorosana, marketing director for SASS, said the event could bring from $5 million to $7 million to the area in purchases of gas, accommodations, food and supplies.
Benefits to Torrance County will come in the form of taxes from on-site sales and property taxes, said Ayre.
"The economic development and the gross receipts it generates will benefit all area residents," he said. "We're trying to do clean, wholesome economic development."
In the first year of operation, the event will bring mainly shooting competitors from outside New Mexico, Amorosana said. He said the SASS expects no more than about 1,500 competitors for 2005.
Amorosana said he chose to move his operation from California to New Mexico because he wanted to keep the Southwest culture alive.
It's the potential loss of their own Southwest culture that N.M. 217 residents say has them concerned.
They plan to meet again Monday to further discuss SASS and other developments in the N.M. 217 area.

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Baba Louie
May 26, 2004, 07:14 AM
"We fear change." garth algar on Wayne's World

http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?t=2&s=16&x=30&y=302&z=13&w=1

I found 217 and Juan Tomas Rd just south of 66/I-40 about 42 klicks E of Albuquerque (Albakerky for the phoneticists and spelling challenged).
25,000 people will swamp the locals at first and strain all services. Then the capitalists among them will decide they like making other people's money appear in their own bank accounts.

I would hope to see more Native American Action Shooters in the near future tho' as a result. Maybe a "Tonto" class ("What you mean WE, white man?"... sorry, old joke) can evolve (Bow, spear and tomahawk).

At any rate, I'd expect Sutler's Row to have a whole bunch of Native arts & goods added to the trading $ for stuff.

Beautiful country over thataway.

Wish Terraserver had color aerial photos.

TarpleyG
May 26, 2004, 08:38 AM
"These are not modern, high-powered weapons," Johnston said;
I suppose they won't kill someone just as dead either, right genious?

Greg

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
May 26, 2004, 10:05 AM
It's the potential loss of their own Southwest culture that N.M. 217 residents say has them concerned.

um....isn't that kinda what SASS reflects is Southwest culture, or are these gringos only interested in the indian blanket/tourist turquoise/pottery Southwest culture?

Sounds like the 'residents' don't like the idea that folks have the right to use their property as they see fit. Did Santa Fe move closer to ABQ suddenly, or are these 'real people' who live out there? Last time I was out that way they needed all the economic benefit they could get their hands on.

Regards,
Rabbit.

TallPine
May 26, 2004, 10:33 AM
Well, if SASS isn't welcome in New Mexico, we could sure use their dollars up here in central and eastern Montana.

cslinger
May 26, 2004, 10:34 AM
Tarpley G,

Just what I was thinking. You have to give SASS credit they have taken a whole series of firearms and turned them into.......TOYS.....friendly nostalgic items...........if only we could MARKET other firearms in such a masterful way.

Homeland defense rifles......Read Assault Rifle/EBR/MBR Etc.
Bolt Action Family Marksman Rifles.....Read sniper rifle.
Sub-Caliber Indoor Family Plinking Rifles.....Read SMG/Pistol Caliber Carbine.
Etc. and so on.

Chris

Ohen Cepel
May 26, 2004, 10:46 AM
NM is a VERY pink state!!!!

Too bad they couldn't have gone to a better place. Which would have been almost any other state out there except Cali.

I'm sure AZ or Texas would have welcomed them with open arms. Oh well.

Zach S
May 26, 2004, 11:42 AM
Sounds like the 'residents' don't like the idea that folks have the right to use their property as they see fit.
Its times like this I think about paving my entire yard, except for where two tres grow, and doing figure eights around them, just because I can...

Kharn
May 26, 2004, 12:01 PM
Zach S:
Gravel, its cheaper and looks trashier. :evil:

Kharn

Erich
May 26, 2004, 12:39 PM
Hey, the "worried" portion of the residents of Torrance County are in no way the majority. Most folks here are pleased as punch, and why wouldn't we be?

Josey
May 26, 2004, 09:58 PM
$A$$ is having problems. Their biggest problem IS Ken or Chiseler as he is called in $A$$. $A$$ founder Harper Creigh (sp) or Judge Roy Bean is retiring to the NM property. This is NOT a benefit the community effort. The increased demands on law enforcement will absorb most of any economic gains. Imagine, 1600 people with at least four firearms coming to town. Security demands will be massive. The gangs, armed robbers, smash and grab artists and hotel/motel thieves were bad in California. Many firearms were stolen each year. $A$$ moved EOT due to security concerns. They were able to pull the wool over the eyes of the naive local government in NM. Sewage, fire protection, police protection and EMS requests are going to be huge. Traffic is going to be terrible. The whole thing is going to be a mess. Do you have any idea of the amount of effluvium that 1600 people can create? Port-a-potties? Yeah, RIGHT!

Trebor
May 26, 2004, 10:19 PM
Traffic is going to be terrible. The whole thing is going to be a mess. Do you have any idea of the amount of effluvium that 1600 people can create? Port-a-potties? Yeah, RIGHT!

Talk to the people around Butler, Pa, where the Society for Creative Anachronism holds it's annual Pennsic War every August. The event lasts two weeks, with up to 10,000 people on site. Porta potties work just fine, as long as they are on a regular service schedule.

The local community is always happy to see the SCA show up as we pump all sorts of money into the local economy. I don't know much about SASS, but I bet the locals in NM will think differently when they see the economic impact.

Evil_Ed
May 26, 2004, 10:23 PM
Hey Trebor,
What kingdom are you in? :-) I've been a member for 14 years on and off. I have never hit Pennsic but have gone to Gulf Wars a couple of times, went to Fools War when it still existed up in Meridies as well.

Sam
May 27, 2004, 01:02 AM
Having lived in that area for quite a bit I can tell you that the only southwestern culture that the complaining residents have is a simulated adobe home and a ristra hanging somewhere around the house. Most are rich imports from Cali and Wash. The rest are tax refugees from Santa Fe and Albuquerque.
We would be pleased if most went back.


Sam

Destructo6
May 27, 2004, 01:44 AM
So, to get to the End of Trails from here would I take a right or a left turn at Albuquerque?

http://www.animationartgallery.com/images/CJL/CJLLAA.jpg

swingset
May 27, 2004, 02:52 AM
The whole thing is going to be a mess. Do you have any idea of the amount of effluvium that 1600 people can create? Port-a-potties? Yeah, RIGHT!

I organize and sit on the planning committee of a huge flea market/gun show near me that does 25,000 in attendance in a weekend, on average. No problem whatsoever. The portable toilets (60 total) handle the crowd with ease, and often only need 1 cycle during a 3 day event, even with camping.

Me thinks this is a whole lot of nonsense over a small event.

TallPine
May 27, 2004, 10:12 AM
The increased demands on law enforcement will absorb most of any economic gains. Imagine, 1600 people with at least four firearms coming to town. Security demands will be massive.
Yeah, that's right - those SASS folks are well known to shoot up saloons, rustle cattle, and rob trains ....

:rolleyes:

2nd Amendment
May 27, 2004, 11:40 AM
Traffic is going to be terrible. The whole thing is going to be a mess. Do you have any idea of the amount of effluvium that 1600 people can create? Port-a-potties? Yeah, RIGHT!

Local covered bridge festival at Mansfield every year is now over 1 million people during its one week duration. The bulk of waste management is handled by portable toilets with little to no logistical or enviromental problems. Meanwhile all that traffic is channeled down one two lane highway, 10 hours a day, everyday. It can be annoying in the evenings but it works. Here in my town the annual "Freedom Festival" is coming up. We'll have 100k here over that week including 50k in town for the parade. Traffic and waste is nothing to handle.

RobW
May 27, 2004, 01:23 PM
With the last air-show at Nellis Air Force Base, the port-a-potties worked very well (a lot of them and NO waiting lines!), the traffic was managable, and 240.000 (two hundred and fourty thousend) people had a lot of fun.

Where is the problem with 1600 people?

Destructo6
May 27, 2004, 02:04 PM
The increased demands on law enforcement will absorb most of any economic gains. Imagine, 1600 people with at least four firearms coming to town. Security demands will be massive. The gangs, armed robbers, smash and grab artists and hotel/motel thieves were bad in California.
I live about 20 miles from where they've held EOT since the beginning. Raahague's is just east of the LA County border. If these problems are so bad, why have I not read about them in the local papers (who publish livestock deaths in the summer)?

griz
May 27, 2004, 02:55 PM
The gangs, armed robbers, smash and grab artists and hotel/motel thieves were bad in California.

FYI, the cowboys with black sashes are NOT gang members. It only identifies them as black powder shooters.

As for your other misconceptions, I too must have missed the cowboy crime wave. Maybe it's because I live on the other side of the country, but you would think that the reports of armed robbers with two six shooters, a rifle and shotgun would have made the national news.

Sawdust
May 27, 2004, 03:30 PM
Josey says:

Security demands will be massive. The gangs, armed robbers, smash and grab artists and hotel/motel thieves were bad in California.

Hmmmmm...that's news to me; and I think that I would have heard all about it since it all occurred just down the road apiece.

I'm sure that Josey will be along shortly with some links that will corroborate his assertions...right Josey?:scrutiny:

Sawdust

ysr_racer
May 27, 2004, 05:01 PM
I live about 20 miles from where they've held EOT since the beginning. Raahague's is just east of the...

I wonder what Mike Raahauge did to piss them off? :)

Josey
May 27, 2004, 09:31 PM
RUMOUR- The rumour mill suggests that the EPA may be enforcing lead contamination standards on shooting ranges. That means $A$$ contributed to the contamination but, is not going to contribute to the clean up. -RUMOUR There are lists circulated of stolen/lost firearms after EOT each year.

sitkablacktail
May 28, 2004, 01:41 AM
A bunch of fifty and sixty yearolds toting guns and playing cowboy, my god what has this world coming to. If I lived there I would hide under my bed for fear they will get geritoled up and reak havoc on the town. Only the pi$$and moan crowd makes the news.

Destructo6
May 28, 2004, 02:05 AM
Well, it doesn't appear that Raahauges is closing down. And, New Mexico is still in the EPA's jurisdiction. So, the lead contamination shutdown rumor doesn't seem likely.

SMLE
October 22, 2004, 10:24 PM
Talk to the people around Butler, Pa, where the Society for Creative Anachronism holds it's annual Pennsic War every August. Interesting that you should mention an SCA event. The Kingdom of The Outlands holds its annual "Grande Outlandish" in Torrrance County every year on Memorial day. That event draws about 2000 or so and IT causes no traffic problems. Nor are there and security or sewage issues.

Erich
October 22, 2004, 11:44 PM
Hey, I was just out at the Punkin' Chunkin' contest outside Estancia last weekend with my 8-yr-old godson. They had cannons shooting pumpkins at an old car, and for distance. A friend of mine won for the 5th year running with a shot that went (IIRC) 3800' with an 11-lb pumpkin. (My friend let my godson launch one, too! Made the kid's week!)

The real residents of Torrance County are plenty happy to have EOT coming. Good people out there.

Desert Dog
October 23, 2004, 08:56 AM
Second the opinion on the whiners on NM 217. ALL of them are from out-of-state.

It is not like the place is not used to crowds... I mean we only host one of the largest hot-air balloon shows in the world. It is not like we just jumped off the turnip (chile :D) truck... :rolleyes:

Over a million people come to see the Albuquerque Balloon Fiesta in a 10 day period. 2000 people is chump change.

I am all for booting the whiners from the hills, so to speak.

NMshooter
October 24, 2004, 01:21 PM
The two or three who thought this was some other state can whine all they want.

They must not have met most of their neighbors, who are far better armed than the average cowboy action shooter.

Never could understand why folks who don't like guns would want to live here.

Checkman
October 24, 2004, 02:16 PM
They are certainly welcome to come to Idaho. I'de prefer the SASS to the idiotic Rainbow People.

Justin
October 24, 2004, 03:29 PM
Hmmm.

Josey refers to the SASS as $A$$ and has overwhelming concerns about their events as well as membership.

Methinks there might possibly be an ulterior motive on his part.

Texian Pistolero
October 24, 2004, 04:36 PM
From what I know about most of rural U.S., most counties would SWEAT BLOOD to have 25,000 money spending people "descend on them".

I think there may be valid questions about sewage, water, feeding, lodging, but those can be solved.

Mauserlady
October 25, 2004, 05:37 PM
While I do believe Josey is over exagerating I do know there have been some pretty bad thefts from the sutler's over the years with one sutler losing almost $10,000 last EOT...

PKAY
October 25, 2004, 06:25 PM
Regarding thefts from EOT in Norco, I never heard anything about such happenings. If firearm thefts occurred, you can bet the L.A. Times would be all over it bleating about lack of "secure storage" of firearms during events. OTOH, even though I am not a member, I took great pride in the fact that CA still had some gun related happening for lots of folks to enjoy either as participants or on-lookers. (The clothes cost more than the guns, boys!)

Mauserlady
October 25, 2004, 06:31 PM
Let me clarify my post by saying I also never heard anything about guns missing/stolen, the sutler's I speak of lost merchandise...

And PKay is right.. Darn outfits cost as much as guns... Heck a good corset alone is 300.00-400.00... :eek:

Erich
October 26, 2004, 10:16 AM
But worth every penny!

PKAY
October 26, 2004, 11:14 AM
You know, since SASS has be around and gained in popularity, the History Channel doesn't have to look for movie extras and scour Hollywood for costuming when they produce programs about the Old West. In fact, the SASS costuming is more accurate than the movie kind save for those who choose to dress up like a movie cowboy (Gene Autry, Roy Rogers, the Lone Ranger). I remember my Dad telling me about there being no "right" or "left" boots in the nineteenth century. They were all just one type. Wasn't 'till I met a SASS "professional" at the last Great Western Gun Show in Pomona that I learned my Dad was right, but all the boots were left foot! Was I being jive timed or what?

Mauserlady
October 26, 2004, 12:39 PM
You are absolutely correct PKay... I've heard tell of many local cowboys/girls that are a regular part of the History Channels "reenactments". It's very cool...



and Erich...

http://www.coneville.com/mauserlady/smilies/lool.gif

El Tejon
October 26, 2004, 12:47 PM
The SASS crowd dangerous? An unruly element? By getting up early and organizing their insurance papers after 2 cups of decaf?

They seem to be the types that pick up after themselves. Those guys all have their oil changes on spread sheets or pie charts. They only danger they pose is if they tell you stories about their grandkids, may bore you to death.:D

Bud Wiser
October 26, 2004, 01:43 PM
The point you are all missing is that 2 lousy leftist newpaper Propagandists wrote an article critical of an annual shooting event, no actual residents of said area around SASS replied.

All we have for Proof that local residents are upset about all this is the words of Ruben Gonzales and Kathy Louise Schuit of the Mountain View Telegraph. Who the hell are they? Since when do we go around believing what we read in the Mass Controlled Media?:rolleyes: :cuss:

Diggler
October 27, 2004, 07:12 AM
The shooting of live rounds and blanks from single-action pistols and rifles is also part of the program. N.M. 217 residents want to know who will regulate that activity. No one. That's the beauty of living in the U.S. of A.

feedthehogs
October 27, 2004, 07:36 AM
Portapottie?

They didn't have portapotties next to the trail in the 1800's.


Look out America.

We're gun owners and we're taking our rights back and comming to a neighborhood near you.

Get used to it or move to Canada or its sister country, California.

Erich
October 27, 2004, 02:53 PM
I talked to my friend John Stocum (whose Fort Stocum is just a few miles away from the new site) about it a few days ago - he says everyone up there is pretty happy about it . . . with the exception of a couple of whiney CA types. Those folks have been told where they can go.

El Tejon
October 27, 2004, 03:03 PM
Erich, told where they can go? So, you told them to move to Santa Fe?:D

Erich
October 27, 2004, 06:51 PM
Naw, not my fight. I don't have to live with them - Stocum and other characters have expressed the sentiment that the whiners should move back to CA/wherever more colorfully than Art's granmaw would care to hear. :)

Man, Santa Fe is such a pit of weirdos. :(

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