Dented 5.56 ammo


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iamhistory
May 26, 2004, 06:14 PM
Hello All,

I am posting this thread on an ammo transaction I did last week b/c I'm looking to get your thoughts on an explanation the seller gave me on why my ammo was dented. Here are the details.

I purchased some 5.56 ammo via Auction Arms from an outfit in Texas called "Ammotogo". The ammo was priced well and was advertised as Lake City ammo that had been demilled for a change in primers for civilian sales and was packed loose in 1,000 round cases. Having never tried any of it before, I got some.

The ammo was late coming to me and after asking about the delay I was told they didn't have enough to fill my order, yet when I bid there was supposedly dozens and dozens of cases available. No problem, I waited.

The ammo finally came and I quickly checked it out and shot some. Preliminary informal tests on firing were positive.......it seemed to work well overall. However, I noticed that approximately 7 out of 10 (or maybe higher) casings had either scratches around the neck or dented bodies, or both. Many, many rounds were found with dents in the same exact area of the casing body and not as many rounds were found with neck marks. I wrote the seller an e-mail asking for an explanation and got the following replies via our communications. I am asking you all for some input on this "damaged brass" phenomenon to see if you think their explanation holds water or like me, you think it is a somewhat bizarre and at best very weak excuse. Here is a short version of the e-mail I wrote after receiving my ammo and then below that I will post their replies.
____________________________________________________
Hello again ATG,

Just wanted to confirm ammo shipment receipt.........................................................................................................................I do have one question: I noticed that in all 4 cases, the vast majority of rounds have dents in the casings. I would like to know why. Has this brass been previously fired? There are marks on the necks and there are obvious dents in the body of the casings themselves........almost all in the same general area midway on the brass. The marks on the necks are not as consistent as the dents on the bodies.

The rounds look clean overall, primers in good shape, and the sample I fired worked well. Can you please explain the brass question? I suspect newly manufactured or even demilled rounds would not have dented brass in a ratio of approx. 7 out of 10 rounds. I'm somewhat concerned that I paid for advertised new/demilled Lake City 5.56 rounds and these are possibly reloads using previously fired brass.

Please confirm.

Thanks very much.
__________________________________________

I will get j*** to email you back tommorrow on the dents. It is new brass but maybe in the shipping to us adn then to you they get dented up. j*** is out of town until late tonight

thanks - t*****
_____________________________________________________

I talked to J*** and he said it is great ammo but it is surplus demilled ammo which has been pulled down and the shipping process does not help either. If you have anymore questions let me know

Thanks - T*****
_______________________________________________________


Now, back to my questions: Have any of you EVER heard of demilled ammo being damaged by going through the demilling process? Or even more strange, ammo that was loosely packed that was so brutalized during shipping that nearly every round ended up with a dent in nearly the exact same area?????? Something sounds wrong to me.

Please confirm. I have a response prepared and depending on what I hear on the boards from anyone with more knowledge than me or experiences in this situation I am writing them back. I've never seen nor heard of such a thing.

Thanks!

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boofus
May 26, 2004, 06:29 PM
I remember seeing a couple threads on http://www.ar15.com about this. Everyone just said Lake City was military ammo so wasn't as pretty as the commercial stuff. But worked fine.

Greg L
May 26, 2004, 07:26 PM
:scrutiny:

I would be really curious to know why they are demilling current issue ammo while we are in the middle of a war?

My guess is that it is (at least) once fired brass. Damaged in shipping so consistantly in a specific location pegged my BS meter :rolleyes: .

Greg

Blackcloud6
May 26, 2004, 10:06 PM
Could be once fired brass like Greg L says or it could be delinked SAW ammo.

The demils could be for any nimber of reasons: Lot may have been pulled because of problemsm storage issues, etc.

rust collector
May 26, 2004, 10:11 PM
Black Hills Ammunition and, I am sure, many other remanufacturers used to sell cosmetic seconds when they accumulated enough. These are still good shooters, but ugly and so priced accordingly. May be oil dents, kinked case mouths, scratches, who knows? Could also be recycled from ranges and exercises, to insure no problems in the field. In latter case, primers would still be crimped in.

Problem is, why would your sellers feel obligated to blow smoke? Either they don't know or they're trying to hide something. Not confidence inspiring, so I'd think twice about going back in the future.

Ardent
May 26, 2004, 10:23 PM
I'm trying to figure this one out... I'm more curious as to how exactly those dents came about. Blackcloud6 has a reasonable answer, it is possibly delinked ammo, though I've never seen exactly what the linked belts do to cases, it just seems reasonable. I don't know of a 5.56mm, military or otherwise, that leaves concentric dents like that on cases. It sounds like the dents could possibly originate from an external shell/case deflector. That would explain their even placement. Perhaps they picked up the dents during the milling and civilian priming process. I would look for more tell tale signs of being previously fired like lengthwise scratching on the cases, and if you have a bullet puller try pulling one of the rounds and carefully decapping the primer to check for carbon/soot in the primer pocket. If it's there, there is no doubt it has been fired. Remeber to be careful when trying to decap live rounds, easy does it, and wear eye protection.

Ardent

iamhistory
May 26, 2004, 10:23 PM
Yes.........I was thinking all the same thoughts as you so far.

I should mention that they specifically said that the rounds were demilled so that the crimped primers could be removed and replaced with civilian type primers. AND they have repeatedly told me that the brass is NEW brass and has not been previously fired or used.

I asked that question very pointedly and they say it is new brass.

The casings are nice and shiny.....very clean to the eye but a little oily when putting rounds on strippers. Rounds seem to shoot well so far. Frankly, I don't care about cosmetics as long as the mechanics are correct, safe and effective. If it shoots to my satisfaction, I'm happy and I'll buy more.

BUT.........I don't want to be lied to if that is in fact what is happening here. The sellers may be telling the truth, but as mentioned by rust collector.........why would they try and blow smoke? It also pegs something on my bs meter as well. I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.

Blackcloud, you have a good point about the belts. I didn't think of that. Still though.........I've shot A LOT of 5.56 from just about every 5.56 weapon the US military has available and I've never really seen brass dents from belt removal or any other reason except use or abuse.

Who knows............??????????

Poodleshooter
May 27, 2004, 12:26 PM
I'd bet that the cases were resized using the oil you feel as a quick and easy case lube. Excess oil lube on cases ALWAYS causes shallow dimple dents on case shoulders, even when run through home reloader dies.
I don't think they're lying about the cases being new, but they have been resized to bring them back to spec. That's a positive,BTW, as it should ensure better feed reliability.

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