.45 ACP: Reputation deserved or no?


PDA

ZekeLuvs1911
February 11, 2003, 05:45 AM
First off, what this post is not. It is not a discussion about whether the .45 is better than the 9mm or etc. It is not whether a 1911 is the best designed gun or not. I just want to poll what you all think about the reputation of the .45 ACP cartridge. Do you think the .45 ACP 230 gr. FMJ cartidge deserves the reputation that it has? Why or why not? Thanks!

If you enjoyed reading about ".45 ACP: Reputation deserved or no?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Byron Quick
February 11, 2003, 10:01 AM
230 gr. FMJ's reputation? That's really a sorta-kinda indeterminate question there. Who carries 230 gr. FMJ for self defense?

On the other hand, my 230 gr. Gold Dot's by Georgia Arms? Yeah, they deserve their reputation.

My 230 gr. Triton Quik-Shoks? Yeah, they deserve their reputation.

I don't know of anyone who has a high opinion of ball ammo in any pistol caliber...fired from a pistol-not against goblins or critters.

Bottom line: exactly what reputation do you mean?

10-Ring
February 11, 2003, 10:04 AM
I think it's a well earned reputation, based on YEARS of field data!

Neal Bloom
February 11, 2003, 10:07 AM
Seems to have worked over the years.

megatronrules
February 11, 2003, 11:12 AM
I think its deserved. Lets be realistic here. The .45 FMJ was stopping people before most of us were born. Are Hollowpoints better? Yes im sure that they are. They are also much more expensive. I have on occasion when money was extremely low used ball in my gun. Thankfully never needed it:) A HP may expand to .55 or even .75 caliber. Big Deal. Either way at any rate the "worst" thing you can have is ball ammo for defense. In which case,the target will have a 230 grain .45 caliber slug impacting it. Not going to be fun on the targets end im sure. Thats not so bad in my opinion ;) Many servicemen and people who have seen the **** hit the fan, owe their lifes to their 1911's. I doubt they were throwing Hydra-Shocks,Gold Dots, or any other wonder slug. That being said i keep Hydras in my .45 for the overpenatrion factor. Im afraid that in a house ball will punch through something a HP wont. Smart *** mode off :D

:D :D :D :D

ZekeLuvs1911
February 11, 2003, 11:32 AM
I'm talking about the reputation that the .45 has acquired over the years as a "man-stopper." I use 230 gr FMJ because that is the cartridge that gained the reputation. No HP back in 1914.

Blackhawk
February 11, 2003, 11:38 AM
All reputations are deserved.

T.Stahl
February 11, 2003, 11:40 AM
Hmm, are we talking about a good or a bad reputation? :D

Tady45
February 11, 2003, 11:43 AM
I shoot 230 grain Black Talons, Speer Gold Dots, Fed Hydra Shocks etc. I don't know about reputation, but I know that most SWAT teams, and HRT's use these type of rounds. I would hate to be on the business end of any of these :uhoh:



Larry

BigG
February 11, 2003, 11:48 AM
Yup.

megatronrules
February 11, 2003, 11:49 AM
I would hate to be on the end of one of those too! As a matter of fact I would hate to be on the business end of a .25:p :D
Who's with me? ;)

Blackhawk
February 11, 2003, 12:01 PM
Hmm, are we talking about a good or a bad reputation? Doesn't matter.

cratz2
February 11, 2003, 12:36 PM
The 45ACP has a 90+ year long earned reputation for stopping folks on the other side, whatever that means. ;)

Of course, the 9mm does have a pretty long reputation as well.

Topgun
February 11, 2003, 12:47 PM
Silvertip in chamber. Glock 30. It has NEVER jammed on ANYTHING.....but.....why chance it?
I am confident that anything that can't be stopped by plain old 45 ACP hardball should make me run away.

I also have thoughts about the effectiveness of the frangible or expanding stuff on things like auto glass or thick clothing.

I ....FEEL....enough security from the ol punkin ball.

Maybe not, but I hope I never find out.

(I must be a risk taker cuz besides having hardball backing up the first Silvertip, I also only have 8 in the mag)

ruger357
February 11, 2003, 01:04 PM
Yup, served my country well all these years.

Missouri Mule
February 11, 2003, 01:15 PM
Why? Who you been talkin too?

Nightcrawler
February 11, 2003, 01:24 PM
I think the biggest advantage of Hollow Point Rounds is that they're less likely to overpenetrate, a safety issue. They're still not going to put the badguy down any faster if you don't hit something vital.

At least, with hardball, if you don't hit something vital, you give him two holes to bleed out of!

4thHorseman
February 11, 2003, 01:45 PM
"Do you think the .45 ACP 230 gr. FMJ cartidge deserves the reputation that it has? Why or why not? "
Yes. Battle ground proven.

Bainx
February 11, 2003, 06:40 PM
I've said it a kazillion times...."why put a small hole in the BG, when you can put a big hole in the BG?";)

gryphon
February 11, 2003, 06:55 PM
I use ball ammo in my 1911's without hesitation. I don't want to get shot by anything, least of all 230gr, almost half inch chunk of metal.

Autolite
February 11, 2003, 07:20 PM
I read somewhere that the shock effect, (and blood loss), increased exponentially by creating two or more 'small' holes than one big hole. I thought that's why the military dropped the .45ACP and went to a higher capacity 9mm ...

MarineTech
February 11, 2003, 08:01 PM
Through family experienced garnered from my grandfather as a Marine (Marshalls, WW2), my father as a Marine (Vietnam), and myself as a Marine (Gulf War & Somalia), all of us using the same Remington Rand 1943 production 1911A1, I can most certainly say that the 230gr. FMJ round is fully deserving of its reputation as a man stopper. I have used it, and would certainly continue to use it in defense of my life.

Nightcrawler
February 11, 2003, 08:25 PM
The problem with trying to figure out stopping power is the almost unlimited variables that affect whether or not the person will actually drop when shot.

All you really have to go on is field data from other shootings. People like Marine Tech, who've used the .45ACP round in combat, trust it, so I do too.

This is not to say that 9mm, etc. won't kill you, of course. I mostly just like big bore guns of all sorts.

If they made a FAL in .45-70 I'd be all over it. :D

blades67
February 11, 2003, 08:29 PM
Yes, it is a deserved reputation.

Matthew Courtney
February 11, 2003, 08:33 PM
If you want to reliably stop a BG, use a long gun. A handgun's primary use is to allow you to fight your way back to your rifle.

ReadyontheRight
February 11, 2003, 08:46 PM
I votes "yes" assuming that you mean it's a good reputation.

waterdog
February 11, 2003, 09:01 PM
There are a lot of historical accounts of the 1911 being used in war, with great success.

Nothing has surpassed it in competitive shooting, practical or sport.

And from what I have read, when built to JMB tolerances, it is as reliable as any pistol design manufactured today.

Waterdog

BlackArrow
February 11, 2003, 10:35 PM
Find the right .45 and feed a mixture of hollow point and .230 grain and it's unstoppable. I've got other calibers, but so far my Colt Defender has done it's job feeding both out of the same mag. I carry other calibers but love my .45. Given the size of the Defender, I can lay a heck of a lot more lead down in a given time span than a smaller cal. semi. Yes, rifle calibers have more stopping power but it's kinda hard to conceal a rifle in your pocket! .45 is proven with battle history. If you want simplicity go with a Browning in .45, there are still a few of them out there and less parts that 1911. Me I'm sticking with the original!:D BY GOD It's fun! It's a blood thing dude!

BerettaNut92
February 11, 2003, 10:37 PM
Yes, .45ACP kicks skunk but I prefer the 9mm anyway :p

45R
February 11, 2003, 10:38 PM
Duh!!!! The correct Answer is Yes

PATH
February 11, 2003, 10:43 PM
.45 well tested and proven in combat. 'Nuff said!

chieftain
February 12, 2003, 04:28 PM
The 45acp has a long history. it worked

The 9mm has a longer history. It worked in more places and more wars than the 45.

Does that make one better than the other. NO! They both work and both work well.

Facts are facts, the question is:

Is it half full or half empty!

Myth is a funny thing.

Boats
February 12, 2003, 08:44 PM
The answer is "YES!"

However as long as the round is at least .38 Sp.+p or bigger/faster I do not feel too bad about it. I shoot .45ACP because of the 1911A1 delivery system, not because the round is the be all end all.

My next purchase is a CZ 9mm. I won't lose sleep if I decide to carry it.

Ryder
February 12, 2003, 09:47 PM
Never have cared much for FMJ but hard cast bullets are pretty darn awesome!

http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=111878

thaddeus
February 12, 2003, 11:13 PM
There have been many many ballistic studies on this topic over many yearsby medical examiners, ballistic experts and every else you can imagine, trying to see what caliber works better than others.
If the .45 was so great, it would have become abundantly clear in all of those studies, instead of the opposite being found. Every one of them seems to come to the same conclusion that all the calibers work about the same.
I trust scientific data over rumors, myths, and reputations based on hearsay. Therefore I conclude that, while the .45 is an excellent cartridge, it does NOT deserve the reputation it has as being any more effective than any other service pistol cartridge.

Ala Dan
February 13, 2003, 02:17 AM
ABSOLUTELY

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

Kahr carrier
February 13, 2003, 08:26 AM
Yep the Army adopted the 45 after the 38 special proved ineffective against the MOROs in the P.I. The Army picked the 45 because it has more stopping power, it is legend to be able to knock a 240 pound man down if hit by it.

seeker_two
February 13, 2003, 09:53 AM
There are a lot of German, Japanese, N. Korean, Vietnamese, and Afghani soldiers who can vouch for the .45's reputation...:evil:

New_comer
February 13, 2003, 10:18 AM
Scene from "Unforgiven":


Li'l Bill (Gene H.): "I don't deserve this... I'm building a house...


Willie Munney (Clint E.): "Deserve's got nothin' to do with it..."

KA-POW!!!


Still a 9mm for me.

Go figure... :neener: :evil: :cool:

DeltaElite
February 13, 2003, 10:38 AM
The 45acp is a great cartridge, better than the 40 and 9.
Of course the 10mm is better and more versatile than the 45, but that wasn't the subject of the thread, so I will be leaving now. :cool:

Boats
February 13, 2003, 10:41 AM
Not that .38 special would've have been a remarkable improvement, but it was the .38 Long Colt which failed in the Phillipines Insurrection.

WilderBill
February 13, 2003, 11:33 AM
If all you can use is an FMJ, then use the biggest one you can.

YodaVader
February 13, 2003, 12:32 PM
The most accurate semi-auto centerfire handgun shooting I have ever witnessed or performed myself was accomplished using a good 45 ACP pistol. Some customized , some straight out of the box. Targets shown - 20 shots slowfire at 50 yards , 20 shots timed fire at 25 yards - one hand shooting (Clark Custom) . Small target on bottom - 10 shots 50 ft - two hand hold , out of the box Sig P220 using 230 FMJ reloads. The 25 yd and 50 ft target also have some 22lr holes in them as well.

Most people do not want to be shot regardless of caliber or bullet type used. If some felon points a 45 at you and says , "Oh by the way , I only have 230 FMJs in the pistol today - but I still want your wallet!" I doubt most would say , "230 FMJ - HAHA , fire away moron , those rounds can't hurt me!" :neener:

If you enjoyed reading about ".45 ACP: Reputation deserved or no?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!