I'm leaving tomorrow and going up to St. Louis, taking the kids to the Zoo, Children's Museum ect... So what's the climate for CCW in the area is it ok to carry with an Arkansas permit? I know concealed is concealed and more than likely I could carry it and nobody would be the wiser, but I would still like to have an idea as to what's going on in Mo. as far a CCW is concerned. If I recall I've heard that St. Louis is kind of unfriendly towards CCW.
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May 27, 2004, 01:39 PM
Its unfriendly, but legal. I dont think the parks have the no gun signs up, but I could be wrong. If they do, and you carry on thier property, AND they see you, they will ask you to leave. If you leave, no problem, if you dont, you are tresspassing. You shouln't have any problems unless you attract attention to yourself. Car carry is legal without permit.
May 27, 2004, 03:05 PM
Even tho' St.Louis city and county are not issuing permits, they still have to abide the law for persons carrying with a permit.
Not sure if the zoo falls under the "gated part of an amusement park"
I'm SURE the children's Muesem would have a sign posted though.
May 27, 2004, 04:04 PM
DON"T! Just don't do it.
May 27, 2004, 10:20 PM
Please elaborate Josey :rolleyes:
May 28, 2004, 12:03 AM
i think he means don't go to st. louis. Unless you like bad allergies, taxes, and weather, don't go. Visit the Arch and the Zoo, then leave :)
May 28, 2004, 12:36 AM
:) That is close. I have begun a personal hit them ECONOMICALLY campaign. If the local environent is anti anything I am pro, I don't give them my dollars. It doesn't hurt me. They lose money. I would enjoy going to the Police Academy and seeing the "cell of Turin" again. There is a hotel that has the best French onion soup. I could go to see the zoo and watch the apes fling poo. I am not into sports teams since the football Cards left. The hockey is good. I even know a few women there. I am not interested though if I cannot legally CCW. Reality of East St. Louis and parts of the city and county. I have friends, family and CAS pards in Ohio I would like to see and shoot with. I can't quite picture me CCW in Akron though.
May 28, 2004, 01:34 AM
I agree Josey.
Can't remember the name of the restaurant, but the onion soup was great. The Zoo is a lot of fun. The waterfront at night is hopping and I was at the last game the Cardinals played in Busch Stadium. I also have family there. But I have not been back since I got my Michigan Permit.
Not only that, I need a job and am willing to relocate, but I won't go to a state that won't acknowledge my CPL. I even tried to get on in Iraq. But apparently they are not letting contractor carry guns. Not knowing this, I put on my application that I would supply my own handguns and ammo.
May 28, 2004, 09:48 AM
Why don't you guys think that you can legally carry in St. Louis? Missouri law recognizes all other states' permits, and this covers all of Missouri including St. Louis City and St. Louis County. Because of the ongoing legal wrangling over the constitutionality of the licensing fees neither of these localities is currently issuing permits, but according to the law they must recognize all permits, Missouri or out-of-state.
That is not to say that you might not encounter a LEO who interprets the law based on what he/she WANTS it to say vs. what it DOES say, but considering the newness of the law and the political bias here (as in many metro areas nationwide) some ignorance is to be expected.
edited to add:
Just to clarify, the above does not apply to East St. Louis. That's in Illinois, which is a whole other matter entirely.
May 28, 2004, 09:56 AM
I read a post from someone that had been accosted by St. Louis Police and hassled because he was carrying legally. Then he posted a couple of articles about this being the stated policy of some of the departments. I think it was the Chief of police of Hazelwood that was quoted. I'll try to find the post later today. It might have been on packing.org.
May 28, 2004, 10:17 AM
Disclaimer: I'm not an attorney nor a legal expert of any fashion. However, I have studied Missouri's CCW law and its progress carefully. Still, my statements may be in error and are subject to correction by others more knowledgeable.
Chief Wolf of Hazelwood and (former) Chief Ron Battelle of St. Louis County have particularly been thorns on the issue. They have made statements to the effect that they will enforce policies which restrict concealed carry. However, their policies do not comply with state law and they do not have authority to override the state CCW law with local ordinances (as they could with open carry).
If you're concerned then I would make sure you have the number of a good attorney at hand in case you are stopped and harassed. I can't promise you a pleasant experience with LEOs should it come to that. If you choose not to visit just to avoid any potential harassment then I can't blame you. I just want to set the record straight that the law, if not those who enforce it, is on your side when it comes to CCW.
May 28, 2004, 11:20 AM
There's certainly some strangenesses in Missouri's LTC law, but there's some good stuff, too. Among the good stuff is that Missouri unambiguously recognizes all out-of-state permits. Even Michigan doesn't do that -- Michigan only recognizes your out-of-state permit if you're a resident of the state that issues you the permit.
May 28, 2004, 12:31 PM
So, Josey, what else are we Anti that you ar Pro? Is there more than just a general attitude against what the legisalture and supreme court say is legal carry ( quote frome Mars Attacks:" We still have two out of three branches of government working, and that aint bad!") that turns you away, or are there other policies of Saint Louis that contradict your values?
May 28, 2004, 02:07 PM
all oos permits are valid...there havent been any problems with people being harrassed..it is all a big propoganda campaign by the anti's..the LEO's know the laws and are abiding by it,,just read them and go by them..there are tons of fun things to do in the area...and dont go into Illinois carrying they will nail you...i work public servic ein illinois and yes they will take u to the clink for it....
June 1, 2004, 01:37 AM
Well I went and now I'm back, overall a pretty decent trip.
The Highnoon Hidden Alley did what it was suppose to do, it hid my M40 :D.
A couple of reports:
1- The Children's Magic House has a "No weapons of any kind posted on the outside. I abided and left my weapon in the car, no big deal.
2- Be carefull what you take to the Arch with you if you want to go in. I didn't like going unarmed down on the River front but it was a risk that I took. You have to pass through metal detectors when going into the Arch and they have a signe posted outside that said basicly if you have a self assist knife like the kershaws that use the "Speed Safe" mechanism they will be considered a switchblade and confiscated. I had two different guy look long and hard at my Kershaw Vapor, but they let it go through. I wasn't going to tell them that I could have it open just as fast as a switchblade.