Best Book I ever read: Unintended Consequences


May 27, 2004, 03:28 PM
OK, the first thing I learned is that you never talk about it. Not before, during, or after the fact. This I can handle, no problem.

The second thing is that you need to act before it is too late. From the way things are going lately, with all of our liberties being systematically taken away, I'm wondering if the time to act is now. I realize that we are fighting the antis tooth and nail but maybe we aren't going about correctly...

I guess the question I have is how to know when it's "go time". One thing I do know is that if it ever comes to total gun banning, well, they know when they can have my guns. But, is it too late by that time? Besides, this really has nothing to do with guns. For me anyway, it has to do with Freedom, Liberty. I am sick of how the people in government divide people into two categories whic are basically "us" and "them".

(paranioa /on)
For what its worth, my name is Chris Crawford and I live in Irving, Texas. I have nothing illegal im my posession and am not in the process of comitting or planning anything illegal. (This statement is made just in case another Ruby Ridge or Waco happen at my house ;) )
(paranoia /off)

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May 27, 2004, 03:33 PM were saying something about a book...any book in particular?

Or am I missing something?


May 27, 2004, 03:35 PM
um........... did you say somthing about a book?
What book?

May 27, 2004, 03:48 PM
Sorry about that. Somehow I thought I was about the only guy left around here who hadn't read it :D

If you haven't already read this book, do yourself a favor. It is very informative, historical, insightful, and entertaining.

I could barely bring myself to put it down till I had finished and even then I found myself wishing it hadn't ended.

Whether you are a part of the gun culture or not, if you enjoy living as a free man, this book is a must read.

Mal H
May 27, 2004, 03:49 PM
Could it possibly rhyme with "Unattended Conscience Fences"?

Oops! I was a few seconds too late with my funny! :)

May 27, 2004, 04:48 PM
Now you need to read it again. There is so much that escapes you the first time that you pick up the second, third and even fourth times of reading it.. Little things that you say to yourself "how did I miss that the last time".

lee n. field
May 27, 2004, 05:32 PM
wouldn't be this, would it?

Henry Bowman
May 27, 2004, 06:05 PM
I'm re-reading it for the fourth time right now. :D

And BTW, John Ross is a frequent poster on this board under his own name.

May 27, 2004, 06:25 PM
That's the only book I've read that when I finished page 861 I immediately went back to page One and started re-reading it. I have read selected sections of it probably a half-dozen times.


Ant Mod
May 27, 2004, 06:29 PM
Would you really die for your right to own a gun?

May 27, 2004, 06:56 PM
My copy is so worn out (and it's hardcover, thought they were supposed to last forever) that I need to get a new one.

One of the only books that I've reread. I don't reread books due to my brain gets ahead of me and then I am reading and remembering at the same time (further ahead in pages and chapters).

I will agree, great book. What's the saying, "Is it time to fed the hogs yet" :D.


May 27, 2004, 07:36 PM
No, you're not the only one. I finally picked a copy up at the gun show after hearing so much about it here. I'm about half way through it. My schedule keeps me pretty busy so I only get through a couple of pages every day or so.

The firearms history, both the guns themselves, and the relevant historical events have just been amazing. I don't know how John Ross remembers all that stuff. I also like the way he managed to intertwine the fictional Henry Bowman and the other characters into the events.

I felt like I was a member of the "gun culture" before, but now after only 400 pages or so, I am really into the whole thing. I'm even starting to develop an interest in C&R and surplus rifles, which I couldn't give two hoots about before.

Fantastic piece of literature!!

May 27, 2004, 07:37 PM
Would you really die for your right to own a gun?

Tens of thousands of men and woman have died for this!!!

May 27, 2004, 07:40 PM
Would you really die for your right to own a gun?

Yes I would.

You have to understand though, it's not about guns. It is all about liberty

Iron Mike
May 27, 2004, 08:03 PM
I guarantee you I would .

Ben Shepherd
May 27, 2004, 08:20 PM
Very good read. On my way through it for the 3rd time.

EghtySx, exactly!!!

BTW: If some of you newer members haven't already, use the search function for posts by the author, John Ross, he posts on this board. Also search under the title of the book. It has been discussed heavily on this board, lots of info/commentary in the archives.

May 27, 2004, 10:07 PM

Someone needs to clearly post: THE NAME OF THE BOOK.


May 27, 2004, 10:45 PM
The trick is to make the other S.O.B die as he tries to take your rights.

buy guns
May 27, 2004, 10:51 PM
Would you really die for your right to own a gun?

yes. if you cant be free then whats the point in living?

Mr Jody Hudson
May 27, 2004, 10:59 PM
Name of book being discussed here is "Unintended Consequences".

May 28, 2004, 12:17 AM
Great book. Never met a fence sitter that stayed moderate after reading it.


May 28, 2004, 12:27 AM
Would you really die for your right to own a gun?

( :scrutiny: How am I supposed to answer that when I can't look you in the eye? )

Wouldn't you???


Okay guys, I'll admit it... I still haven't read both Unintended Consequences AND Enemies Foreign and Domestic. I should be flogged. :(


May 28, 2004, 12:52 AM
Great book - now read "Enemies Foreign & Domestic" by Matt Bracken, a regular here at THR under the name Travis McGee. John Ross gave it a very favorable review and I loved it.

Enemies Foreign & Domestic Website (

December 16, 2004, 04:53 PM
So far I am reading information with historical refrences listed.
This book will not give anyone the warm and fuzzies until RKBA is fully restored.
I will use this book with others for my childrens history education. No school public or private will be trusted in this sense.
Honestly there are sections in this book with information I would not want to know but I would never agree to it being censored. TMI required but still TMI.
I think I might want to promote this book for teachers required reading for an essay test if I had an ear in state EDU standards. Results published to the students parents.

Going to order some more copys to send to family members and friends. Might ship a few to be passed around in deployed units abraud.

How would others convincingly recomend this book to the naive and ignorant people we know?

December 16, 2004, 05:02 PM
After you finish Unintended Consequences, pick up Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. That's one that will change your outlook on a whole lot of things.

December 16, 2004, 05:09 PM
While I do like Atlas Shrugged

(minor spoiler here)

I just can't read the radio broadcast speech over and over. Geez, 80 pages!

Derek Zeanah
December 16, 2004, 05:24 PM
Would you really die for your right to own a gun?Would you die for the right to worship God as you see fit? To marry the woman you love? To keep the product of your labor, rather than hand it over to the local nobility? To insure that your children grow up free?

Rights, man. Rights and freedom. If you value life more than you value liberty...

December 16, 2004, 05:25 PM
How do you sell this book or another book to people who have no clue they should trust in the state or fed less than they do. Realy scare them with documentable fact that will never get promotional or even mention in media circles they may consider for sources. NYT would never recognise this book in large bold print. Correct me if I am wrong.

hehe guess this was a good thread to bump for this subject.

December 16, 2004, 05:29 PM
I just can't read the radio broadcast speech over and over. Geez, 80 pages!

I'm with you skydaver. I've read it so many times that I just skip that part now.

December 16, 2004, 06:37 PM
The first time I read it in one sitting. It took me about 19 hours but there was no way I was going to stop. I've read it half-a-dozen times since then and last weekend I gave it to a guy I met in the hospital. I told him to read it a few times and pass it on. I suppose John Ross would prefer it if he bought his own, but what the heck-- now I have to buy another copy, so it all works out the same.

mons meg
December 16, 2004, 06:44 PM
Just there anyone on the board here who thought this book sucked? Devil's advocate and all that...

Edit: I have *not* read the book...just looking for possible alternate views.

December 16, 2004, 07:09 PM
I have my personal copy on order right now. A local library has a copy and I read it on the recommendation of a friend. A truly excellent story that reads so close to reality, you question how much of it is actually fiction. I highly recommend it to everybody I know, although few have taken my advice (it's amazing how few people actually have the stamina to tackle a good sized book these days).

December 16, 2004, 07:49 PM
I just ordered mine tonight along with another.

December 16, 2004, 08:05 PM
how to know when it's "go time".
its just like how you'll know when you've found the right woman and fall in love. you'll just know.


December 16, 2004, 08:14 PM
Would you really die for your right to own a gun?

It isn't about guns. It's about control. Don't ever forget it.

Derek Zeanah
December 16, 2004, 08:17 PM
I think the author had issues defining a "line in the sand" as well, hence the ATF mistaken for terrorists while trying to plant counterfeit money and drugs on the premises while using a blank warrant -- so over the top no-one in the audience would fault the protagonist for it.

December 16, 2004, 08:33 PM
Why does everyone seem to think this book is a piece of great literature?

December 16, 2004, 09:57 PM
Why does everyone seem to think this book is a piece of great literature?

Because it portrays the cure for a growing cancer that sickens all red blooded americans and patriots. :cuss:
Would you really die for your right to own a gun?

The second assures the rest!!! :D

December 16, 2004, 10:12 PM
I don't consider it great literature. It's a good read, nothing more. I'd probably put it on the same level as a John Grisham novel.

Highland Ranger
December 16, 2004, 10:23 PM
I read it just this week - OUTRAGEOUS, a must read. Could not put it down.

It made me think:

1. Is all the history in there correct?

2. Does anyone have a time line on this stuff? Viewed together linearly it is some seriously scary stuff.

Edisted to add: The book is:
Title: Unintended Consequences
Author: John Ross
Hardcover: 863 pages
Publisher: Accurate Press (January 1, 1996)
ISBN: 1888118040

Author's web site:

On Amazon:

VietVet 67-68
December 17, 2004, 04:44 AM
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, or ask another to live for the sake of mine. Ayn Rand Atlas Shrugged.

Yes I would die for the right to own a gun!! Wouldn'd you?


mr hanky
December 17, 2004, 06:32 AM
I just finished finals for this semester, Unintended Consequences is the first on my list to read over the break! Enemies Foreign & Domestic next, followed by Atlas Shrugged, and More Guns, Less Crime after that. I have quite a schedule eh?

not a split second delay in answering that yes I would die for liberty, guns are liberty's teeth. George Washington

December 17, 2004, 07:18 AM
First off, excellent book. I'm reading it for the second time now.
Secondly, yes I would die for my rights. Just look at all you have to loose if you let that one right go.


December 17, 2004, 07:35 AM
I just finished up finals week, so my goal is to finish the last two hundred pages of UC this weekend. I love it so far, and find it to be well written and riveting. It makes me want do some independent research and check some of the history in the book. I would like to confirm some of the activities and get some more information on them.

December 17, 2004, 08:10 AM
If you've read Unintended Consequences you now HAVE TO read Enemies Foreign and Domestic by Matt Bracken. He also posts here regularly under "Travis McGee". I'm not finished yet, but I'm glued to the book every spare minute I get.

Great book, but I'm now a little suspicious of my cell phone... ;)

It's my understanding that both of these fine authors have sequels in the works.

December 17, 2004, 08:20 AM
A good read but not the point. This is the novel that transformed so many of us. Gave us understanding and historical perspective and a glimpse to the future. I also provides for a way back.....

John Ross
December 17, 2004, 02:18 PM
Great Literature?


A good read but not the point. This is the novel that transformed so many of us. Gave us understanding and historical perspective and a glimpse to the future.

End quote.

Thank you for the kind words. I can't count the number of times I've received letters or emails like the following. The first one I thought was tongue-in-cheek. After about the fifth, I realized they were real:

Dear Mr. Ross,

I just wanted to tell you that you have changed my life. A year ago, I had never owned a gun. Then a friend gave me your book to read. All of a sudden I felt ashamed at what I had allowed to happen on my watch. It's about freedom, and guns are the tip of the spear. I now own seven rifles and twenty-one handguns.

I have become a life member of the NRA. What other organizations do you advise supporting? My friend told me that he heard you at a gun rights speech saying JPFO did the most with the least. He also mentioned you said local grassroots groups had the greatest potential. We don't have any here. How should I start one? Any advice?

Thank you once again.


I don't claim UC is a masterpiece of literary writing, and I won't quarrel with those who don't like the style or the content.

Some think the characters, their actions, sexual proclivities, etc. are not believeable. To those critics I can only say that you and I have had different life experiences, and leave it at that. My mail has run 20-1 in favor of letters saying things like "I felt like you were writing about my life!".

On an amusing note, a lot of letters say "Your book was so believable except for one thing, (insert scene here.) Why did you put that in? That was totally unrealistic."

I get this question a lot. The funny thing is, no two people list the same scene. An example is the part where Max lets young Henry drive his car on a rural road. One reader thought this was ludicrous. Several others told me that was exactly what their dads had done when they were kids, and I was the first author they’d read who put it in a novel. My favorite complaint was the reader who regularly worked with the federal government. He thought the government agents in my story were much too well-organized!

Anyway, thanks for all the kind words.


Sam Adams
December 17, 2004, 02:33 PM
Would you really die for your right to own a gun?

Here's the short answer:

"The right to own weapons is the right to be free."
-- A.E. Van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

Here are a couple of others:

"The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
Henry St. George Tucker, in Blackstone's 1768 "Commentaries on the Laws of England."

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
-- George Washington

The mere ownership of a material object is not the point - LIBERTY is the point. At the moment when you concede that government has the right to regulate the possessions of the average individual in society (as opposed to criminals), you have conceded that government is the Master of all of society. Once that power is granted by the concession, or seized by force, nothing stands in the way of a near-omnipotent power held by only a few individuals, i.e. a dictatorship.

BTW, here is the source of the above quotes (among many others):

Sam Adams
December 17, 2004, 02:50 PM
Thanks for writing UC, for Ross in Range [ ] and for your many comments on this website and elsewhere - you have contributed greatly to my knowledge of guns, the gun culture, our society and the psychology of the gun controllers, and I'm sure that many thousands of others would echo my thoughts.

True enough, UC isn't great literature in the traditional sense of being a great work of literary art, but it is great literature to me: informative, thought-provoking, timely and maybe even prophetic. If it wakes up a few thousand or tens of thousands of people, and they themselves spread the word (and it HAS done that), then I'm sure that you will be more than satisfied that you had accomplished your mission. Congratulations on a job well done, even if it is only Job One on a long list, and THANKS again. hurry up with that sequel!

Henry Bowman
December 17, 2004, 03:18 PM
Literature is defined as the preserved writings of a people (as opposed to those writings that are discarded). This writing is likely to be preserved well into the future.

Is is great? Well my screen name is an indication of my opinion, even if the foreshadowing was just a bit heavy handed here and there when read for the third time et seq.

December 17, 2004, 03:30 PM
I have enjoyed this book so much I have given copies away for Christmas to some others so they can think. Everyone has enjoyed it. And it does have to be read at least twice.

John Ross wrote a great book.

Andrew Rothman
December 17, 2004, 06:03 PM
Billmanweh mailed me his copy to read. He asked me to pass it on to more readers.

If anyone would like to read it next, PM me and give me your address. The only stipulation is that you have to pass it on to another interested reader when you are finished with it!

First come, first served, etc.

December 17, 2004, 06:20 PM
I am still reading the first time through. I guess this means I'm on another one or few of those lists JR and many others of us are included in. What a club.

December 17, 2004, 07:54 PM
I read this book some time ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. About a week ago, i started eyeing it for a 2nd read every time i walked past my gun library.... maybe i'll start it again tonight.

The book is extremely well done, like a stephen king plot, except better. the only criticism i have of the book is that it's so friggin preachy. every page is just drenched in "rhetoric". That criticism is certainly countered by reality. i stop by my local gun shop after breakfast every morning for an hour or so to chat, and it's always non-stop preaching to the choir about the sad state of affairs we're in.

so, like i said, an excellent work, and not at all unrealistic. just...sad, somehow.

oh, and my wife refuses to read it, and hates it with a passion because of the cover picture. what were you thinking, John??

if there is a sequel in our future, definitely post it here.

warm regards,

December 17, 2004, 07:55 PM
p.s. i can't get my dad a copy or he'd start shooting people straight away. :rolleyes: he's very impressionable for a 60 yr old

December 17, 2004, 08:07 PM
I found a copy of it in my library! Wooohooo!!

It's friggin' HUGE! :neener:

Should make some nice, light reading over the holiday break. :D

December 17, 2004, 09:22 PM
I started reading it Sunday, finished it Thursday. I hardly went on line this week! By far one of, if not the, best book I have ever read.

December 17, 2004, 10:31 PM
Would you really die for your right to own a gun?

I would Die for freedom for freedom just as my ancestor did by the name of richard stockton, died in the alamo.

It isnt about gun's its Freedom

rock jock
December 17, 2004, 10:44 PM
I didn't really care for some of the content or the writing style, felt like it really dragged in certain places and could have used a healthy dose of editing, thought that some parts were unrealistic, and that overall it was a little over the top.

HOWEVER, I give John Ross two big thumbs for penning what was really a ground-breaking book. Nothing like was on the market before and it served as a good reminder of what may yet come if we are not diligent.

BTW, if you liked UC, I think you would REALLY like Enemies Foreign and Domestic. A little more realistic IMHO.

December 17, 2004, 11:23 PM
Would you really die for your right to own a gun?

Howzabout for YOUR right? Or my nephew's right?

Or someone who I'll never meet?

But it ain't gonna go cheap.

But hopefully it won't ever happen.

December 18, 2004, 11:37 AM
Bought my first (signed) copy from JR at Knob Creek in '96 or '97, I think. Lent that one out and never saw it again. found a replacement(fifth printing) at another gun show a couple years later. Still have that one. And anyone rerading "Consequences" will definately enjoy "Enemies Foreign & Domestic", by Travis...

December 18, 2004, 12:35 PM
Would you really die for your right to own a gun?

No, I would make others die for my right to own a gun. ;)

December 18, 2004, 02:53 PM
that reminds me, can anyone recommend a book about the warsaw uprising?

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