E-bay rule change


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craigz
May 28, 2004, 10:11 PM
I just received this email from Ebay:

New Guidelines

The following guideline changes, which limit what can be sold on eBay, will take effect June 8th, 2004:

The sale of any assault weapon-related parts or accessories will not be permitted (applies to all parts and accessories related to any firearm defined as an "assault weapon" by federal or California law).

The sale of any firearm receiver or firearm frame will not be permitted (whether complete receivers and frames, components and parts of receivers and frames, or "cut," "80%," or "partially complete" receivers).

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Wildalaska
May 28, 2004, 10:26 PM
Hmm I didnt get that

WildsellsalotonebayAlaska

Sportcat
May 28, 2004, 10:35 PM
Just got it...


Important Notice: Hunting Guidelines and Category Changes

New Guidelines
The following guideline changes, which limit what can be sold on eBay, will take effect June 8th, 2004:

The sale of any assault weapon-related parts or accessories will not be permitted (applies to all parts and accessories related to any firearm defined as an "assault weapon" by federal or California law).
The sale of any firearm receiver or firearm frame will not be permitted (whether complete receivers and frames, components and parts of receivers and frames, or "cut," "80%," or "partially complete" receivers).
Category Changes
In order to improve the ability of buyers to find your items, the category structure of the Hunting category has been expanded to include the creation of three separate categories for Gun Related items:

Gun Safety & Storage
Gun Parts
Gun Accessories
The Scopes, Optics, Taxidermy, Reloading Equipment & Vintage categories have also been expanded. For more information you may view the whole list of new categories.
Regards,

eBay

MtrCty
May 28, 2004, 11:17 PM
I received this as an e-mail today from E-Bay:

Important Notice: Hunting Guidelines and Category Changes

New Guidelines
The following guideline changes, which limit what can be sold on eBay, will take effect June 8th, 2004:

The sale of any assault weapon-related parts or accessories will not be permitted (applies to all parts and accessories related to any firearm defined as an "assault weapon" by federal or California law).
The sale of any firearm receiver or firearm frame will not be permitted (whether complete receivers and frames, components and parts of receivers and frames, or "cut," "80%," or "partially complete" receivers).
Category Changes
In order to improve the ability of buyers to find your items, the category structure of the Hunting category has been expanded to include the creation of three separate categories for Gun Related items:

Gun Safety & Storage
Gun Parts
Gun Accessories
The Scopes, Optics, Taxidermy, Reloading Equipment & Vintage categories have also been expanded. For more information you may view the whole list of new categories.
Regards,

eBay

Diggler
May 28, 2004, 11:19 PM
I like how everyone treats ********** as its own country equal to the rest of the United States. :rolleyes:

Use gunbroker instead, support those who support you.

N3rday
May 28, 2004, 11:27 PM
Everyone who is a member of EBAY please send them a piece of your mind!

Standing Wolf
May 28, 2004, 11:48 PM
I don't ever do business with anti-Second Amendment bigots. If E-Bay wanted my dollars, it would treat me with respect rather than contempt.

MacPelto
May 29, 2004, 12:05 AM
My, how things change. You know, I once bought a gun (muzzleloader) off ebay. This was quite some time ago...terrible.

Harumph.:mad:

Michael Zeleny
May 29, 2004, 12:11 AM
I don't ever do business with anti-Second Amendment bigots. If E-Bay wanted my dollars, it would treat me with respect rather than contempt.No bigotry needs be involved in a business decision aiming to maximize shareholder value by lessening potential legal liability. Emotional responses and arrogation of the high ground are unlikely to weigh in against the bottom line.

craigz
May 29, 2004, 01:29 AM
Spoken like a true puppet of the managerial elite.

Zundfolge
May 29, 2004, 01:36 AM
What would be the reason for selling gun related stuff on Ebay instead of Gunbroker?

Michael Zeleny
May 29, 2004, 01:46 AM
Spoken like a true puppet of the managerial elite.Anyone capable of imputing attitudes of respect and contempt to limited liability entities would be well advised to leave his teeth under the pillow as tokens of humble obeisance to the Colgate fairy.

wintermute76
May 29, 2004, 01:48 AM
I was just going to post this same thing. Kinda sucks, I got a good deal on some Rem 788 magazines a while back.

Tho I don't like their politics, they do have wider recognition than gunbroker.

TheOtherOne
May 29, 2004, 02:03 AM
The sale of any assault weapon-related parts or accessories will not be permitted (applies to all parts and accessories related to any firearm defined as an "assault weapon" by federal or California law).I can't wait until somebody starts turning in all the auctions that are selling something like a rifle sling that happens to be able to fit an evil California defined assault weapon (say an unaltered Yugo-SKS).

Chip Dixon
May 29, 2004, 02:54 AM
It's nice what they teach at Harvard nowadays. Profit over ethics..

2nd Amendment
May 29, 2004, 02:58 AM
Regardless, the point remains that ebay has chosen to NOT do business with a certain LEGAL and LAW ABIDING segment of the market according to a nebulous definition of a non-existent item. As such that customer segment, which carries with it the power of millions of dollars, is free to take their power of the purse elsewhere. It is indeed about the bottom line and while ebay almost certainly will not see a dime in increased profits, nor have they lost a dime due to liability, they WILL lose dollars over this.

So be it. My ebay acct is done. Their choice, my response.

Michael Zeleny
May 29, 2004, 03:03 AM
It's nice what they teach at Harvard nowadays. Profit over ethics..I am not advocating anything beyond a realistic appraisal of corporate motives.

Wildalaska
May 29, 2004, 04:15 AM
Ebay is free like any other corporation to do what is wants in its best corporate interest...

If this Board, becasue of potential liability issues, chose to eliminate "buy and sell" adds, would you boycott it?

Whatever, My undersatnding that 80 % receivers etc were always not permitted on ebay.

If anyone has a TRUE auction site other than ebay that permits firearms and more importantly parts and the like let me know.

Wildgonnashootmyswedem41btomorrowAlaska

Croyance
May 29, 2004, 04:41 AM
Yes, there is at least one other thread on this.

They are a buisness, which you do not have to patronize. I won't let people smoke in my home and I don't believe that makes me a facist. They haven't taken anything from you, they are merely not letting you use their services for something. How is this so different from signs that reserve the right not to serve customers, or deny customers service if they have no shoes or shirt?
They were never supportive of gun rights to begin with. Gunbroker, Guns America, and other sites exist for firearms transactions. Why not support somebody who is at least monetarily supportive of your rights?
They probably don't want any liability or bad publicity. They might be concerned that another Dylan & Kebold get guns through them.

None of this is intended to make you sympathetic to their situation.

Minion82
May 29, 2004, 04:48 AM
I guess I'll have to dust off my gunbroker account after June 8th.

WonderNine
May 29, 2004, 04:49 AM
Because people who don't have the money or knowledge to boycott these establishments are at their mercy. Money equals power. I don't see how private home/land ownership can be equated to global franchises unless you've been brainwashed in entirety by Rush Limbaugh.

I love Ebay and I love what it offers. I hate them and Paypal's terms of agreement, (same globalist terms, same corporation) but the best course of action is to try and change it. Boycotting is not an option for most people in the real world.

Boycotting or suggesting a boycott is a copout. A total and complete right wing, brainwashed, lazy copout.

gunsmith
May 29, 2004, 05:08 AM
An assault weapon really is,especially the anti's...it can't last.
Money is the bottom line and they're capitalist

sitkablacktail
May 29, 2004, 05:19 AM
My god how will I add to me Bennie baby collection if I shy away from EBAY.

WonderNine
May 29, 2004, 05:23 AM
Btw, I meant "right wing" in stupid media generalization sort of way. Just so the point would get across.

Michael Zeleny
May 29, 2004, 05:43 AM
So be it. My ebay acct is done. Their choice, my response.I felt the same way when Ebay first stopped listing firearms. Then I considered their fealty to greedy corporate gnomes, and chose to continue using my account.

BryanP
May 29, 2004, 09:07 AM
Ebay does have a discussion forum and this is

a topic under the Policies-User Agreement section. (http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jsp?forum=100&thread=410153527&start=-32&msRange=40)

Keep it polite people. If you have to raise your voice you've already lost the argument.

craigz
May 29, 2004, 11:58 AM
What would be the reason for selling gun related stuff on Ebay instead of Gunbroker?

Because, unfortunately, 98% of the postings on Gunbroker are by dealers selling guns at their standard markups and relisting them over and over for free. If you are looking to sell scopes or accessories, you get far more exposure on Ebay.

I wonder how they're going to enforce this. Can I sell a scope that could be mounted on an evil assault rifle? Can I sell a powder scale that might conceivably be used to reload ammo for an evil assault rifle?

Chris Rhines
May 29, 2004, 12:24 PM
Technically, fascist is the correct definition for this EBay policy: private industry aligning itself with government regulations, usually at the expense of the individual.

But, EBay is at least nominally a private company. If you don't like their policies, don't use them. I don't.

- Chris

Mr. Mysterious
May 29, 2004, 12:51 PM
There are plenty of other auction sites that want our business. E-bay is too big for their own britches now anyways.

birdv
May 29, 2004, 12:59 PM
No thanks ebay nazi:evil:

Art Eatman
May 29, 2004, 12:59 PM
Hey, Chip! Where you been, boy?

"Profit over ethics" has been around since way before I wuz born in 1934...

Probably coulda traded good backstrap for shoddy dartpoints with Ugh the Flintknapper. Of course, back then the liability issue was rather more up close and personal.

:D, Art

Diggler
May 29, 2004, 01:08 PM
Maybe rather than trying to change Ebay to our way of thinking, we could get GunBroker to put up a 'General' section where we could sell non-firearm related items to like-minded people. Gunbroker would still make money on each sale whether it's a gun or not, so it would support them.

pax
May 29, 2004, 01:08 PM
Combined two threads on the same topic; feel a little silly as I (sigh) forgot to check time stamps, so the combined thread is more tangled than it should have ended up. Please forgive me for any confusion...

Also, I note that some of the responses are a little heated. Not unsurprising, but it prompts the following reminder:

Please remember that on THR, we do not attack other members nor call them names. Disagree with each other as vehemently as you wish, but do it in a civil manner.

Thanks,

pax

Evil_Ed
May 29, 2004, 02:38 PM
Forget E-Bay, use gunbroker or auction arms.

2nd Amendment
May 29, 2004, 02:43 PM
Keep it polite people. If you have to raise your voice you've already lost the argument.

I'll never understand this. It's one of those things you hear a lot but in practical application I don't think I have ever witnessed it. Any debate where minds have been changed has been without doubt heated and loud. Civil debate only works in politics, where the eventual outcome is already known and only the means to justify getting there is in doubt.

pax
May 29, 2004, 03:02 PM
2A,

Maybe a topic for another thread.

Real quick, though, I've changed my mind about a lot of things over the years of posting on online message boards. Can't remember any influential thread where the participants were all yelling or insulting one another, but I can remember a lot of threads that were civil and polite which had plenty of effect.

pax

brookstexas
May 29, 2004, 06:47 PM
I find it funny that EBAY has no problem trying to deny my Second Amendment civil rights based on anti-gun emotion and not facts.
Since their latest CEO has taken over, she says Paypal can't be used to buy guns etc. now this.
At the same time EBAY is one of the internets largest sellers of HARDCORE porn sold under the mature audience section. I think the case is easily made as to which is more detrimental to American society. I'm not in favor of a porn ban either....

Michael Zeleny
May 29, 2004, 09:16 PM
I find it funny that EBAY has no problem trying to deny my Second Amendment civil rights based on anti-gun emotion and not facts.Imagining that constitutional guarantees compel businessmen to engage in unwanted transactions has no factual basis whatsoever. This sort of emotional response works only to dilute, not to strengthen, our rights.

ninenot
May 29, 2004, 10:21 PM
craigz, it would not surprise me in the LEAST to hear that the Kali Attorney General (or some Dimowit legislator from same place) made a not-so-subtle inquiry as to Ebay's practices re: guns, and then pointed out the Kali law.

That's what they call a hint. Sort of like when the Mafia leaves a horse's head in your bed. Only difference: the Gummint can drain your blood with an endless lawsuit or just the THREAT of criminal prosecution.

For an example, see what the NY A.G. just did to Strong Companies. While the NY Ayatollah-General NEVER came up with an indictment for criminal activity, he managed to force R. Strong to sell the Company at a huge discount, and will likely cause the unemployment of around 600 Wisconsin people in the next few years.

NO CRIMINAL INDICTMENT, but losses aplenty.

Who says the USA has no tyrants?

2nd Amendment
May 29, 2004, 10:21 PM
I've rarely ever seen anyone change their mind on anything meaningful online, pax. But I've never seen it in the sort of context we have here which is, primarily, a bunch of like thinkers agreeing with each other. I really can't remember ever seeing a civil thread concerning a major issue outside of a homogoneous board like this whether anyone changed their mind or not! :) Regardless, it'll never be a topic for another thread here because it's...

Off Topic. :)

Croyance
May 29, 2004, 11:39 PM
I don't see how private home/land ownership can be equated to global franchises unless you've been brainwashed in entirety by Rush Limbaugh.
First, I never listen to that bombastic, hippocritical drug user.
Second, the like is this - they have the right to do what they want in their private buisness just like I have the right to do what I want on my property, as long as it is within the bounds of the law. Other than your basic civil rights, I really don't have to let you excercise any of your rights in my home. They really do get to choose the transactions that they will allow. Don't like it, go elsewhere. That is what the free market is about.I find it funny that EBAY has no problem trying to deny my Second Amendment civil rights based on anti-gun emotion and not facts. What right is being violated? Point it out and explain it to me.
When they see a threat of loosing lawsuits because of porn, they will ban that also. Since parents aren't going to sue when they find their child's porn, I don't see that happening.

shoobe01
May 30, 2004, 12:32 AM
In my experience, eBay has its place, but its not for guns.

I use GunsAmercia, instead of an auction site at all. Lots of stuff, and nice class of people mostly. Never had an issue with anyone, and always buy/sell what I want for the price I want. Yes, for parts and accessories as well as guns.

FThorn
May 30, 2004, 01:16 AM
What is eBay's contact info?

email for feedback on firearms policies?

Real address?

2nd Amendment
May 30, 2004, 05:49 PM
Since parents aren't going to sue when they find their child's porn, I don't see that happening.

So, I sue ebay for selling porn to my kid and they then do not, after this very public suit, drop the online sale of porn thru their facilities what will you say then?

The targeting of "rights" in this instance is the fact ebay has targeted and will continue to target firearms specifically because a certain segment of ebay corporate does not like firearms and can hide behind the excuse of "law suits" to further their agenda. As I said elsewhere, they of course have this right but just because they CAN do it doesn't make it right nor does it give legitimacy to anyone defending their actions.

Ebay is wrong. They are doing it as a method of furthering personal agendas. They have a handy excuse to cover themselves with. We therefore should publicize that excuse as much as possible and cost them as much money as possible by simply taking our business elsewhere. THAT is the right thing to do and exactly what would happen to us if any of our personal businesses did something offensive.

Croyance
May 30, 2004, 11:42 PM
Right has nothing to do with it. I have only said they have the right to not allow the auction of firearms. It is only a matter of what legal rights we have as opposed to what they have.
They don't infringe on any of your rights. A guy opens a book store and not a gun store, have they infringed upon your rights? Every gun store owner decides to close down of their own volition, have your rights been violated? Maybe somebody chooses not to make a profit on your wants, needs, and rights, but that is certainly their choise.

What would I say to E-Bay if they decided to still allow the auction of porn after a lawsuit? Nothing if they did nothing legally wrong. Life is full of choises and decisions.

bradvanhorn
May 30, 2004, 11:55 PM
I'm really late to this show, so I'm going to have to go back and read up... Nevertheless...


They don't infringe on any of your rights.

Nope. And they clearly don't support them either.



Life is full of choices and decisions.

Yup. And I choose not to support ebay and its business any longer.

asa
May 31, 2004, 12:34 AM
I certainly would like to buy firearms accessories from one of the firearms auction sites, but compared to the selection on e-bay, they have little from which to choose. I've purchased everything from old tang sights to handgun boxes from e-bay advertisers and have been quite satisfied. I think one of the problems is that a majority of gun parts advertisers on e-bay aren't "firearms" people; instead they tend to be antique dealers and estate pickers who buy up "lots" at sales and advertise on " the bay" They don't know the internet gun auction sites exist-but they know e-bay and know it has hunting and gun accessories categories. Most of the dealers have access to firearms and accessory pricing, so the "bay" serves them quite nicely.

El Rojo
May 31, 2004, 12:42 AM
I probably shouldn't tell you all this, but there is a better place to get all of your AR-15 (yeah just one of the "assault weapons") needs. Both of my pre-ban AR uppers came from the Equipment Exchange at AR15.com (http://www.ar15.com/forums/board.html?b=7). I couldn't find a price even remotely close on eBay. Now I will have to compete with even more people over there!

If eBay doesn't want our gun business, that is fine. They won't get it. I still have other needs for eBay though so I will remain. Lets not get in an uproar over this thing because if you think a handful or even a large number of gun owners stopped using eBay would have a signifigant impact on them, I think you overestimate the volume of business on eBay. They have too much else going on. However, those of you who chose to go on elsewhere, I respect your decision. I think just the loss they create from their new rules will be sufficient to let them see how brilliant that idea was.

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