Gun insights from Iraq


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El Tejon
May 29, 2004, 10:15 PM
My Wing Chun instructor took a year long gig in Iraq and is now on a vacation. We recently exchanged several e-mails after his first five months there after plenty of action including being stuck behind Shi'a militia lines for a few days. I related the following gun-related observations as it may be of interest to THR:

--The SIG226 is a wonderful pistol. Working flawlessly in the sand and grit of Iraq.

--The 9mm with its larger ammunition capacity as to aid in dealing with multiple threats is much preferred over the 1911.

--Hot loaded fmj (especially those designed for machine pistols) is the pistol ammo in demand. Dealing with many bad guys in improvised or Chinee body armour or inside vehicles.

--Gear from Tactical Taylor is working great. Very important when working in and out of vehicles (or running in and out of buildings) not to have stuff hanging around waist. Vest with pistol on it is very handy for this kind of work.

--The Mk46 is working out great and is the best thing in the world for breaking an ambush. Tell boys at Crane to keep them coming.

--The ACOG 1x with amber triangle is a great sight for this kind of fighting in this envionment, espcially at night.

--No substitute for experience. While you cannot train enough, your training must approximate conditions as closely as possible. Apparently his team included an individual who had completed a number of CBQ/ECBQ courses, he had never been in battle and performed less than optimal in his first fight. He was confused at the din and froze.

After surviving that fight, training then consisted of exercises including smoke, arty sims and Arabic music played at jet engine dB levels. The next fight went exceedingly well (as fights can go--the bad guys all died).

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cerberus
May 29, 2004, 10:41 PM
I am no big fan of 9mm So I will stay with my 1911s in .45 acp

El Guero
May 29, 2004, 10:48 PM
I don't know a whole lot about pistols, but I had kind of figured that quantity might beat quality in modern handguns, especially for that kind of fighting. I'm not sure a Five-seveN would still make a good gun though, even with that 20 round magazine.

cerberus
May 29, 2004, 11:09 PM
Everyone has their right to carry any Cal. Gun they think is best. All I know is no Police force uses the 9mm anymore most have switched to .40 or the old standard .45acp. As far as this gun owner the 9mm is good for target shooting at range. And thats where most are used today.

DRZinn
May 29, 2004, 11:10 PM
To the extent that I have knowledge of any of those points, I can concur, except if he's talking about gov't-issue M9 9mm....

Particularly the magazines. No matter how well maintained, the follower would stick and the magazine would not feed. If turned upside down the rounds would simply FALL OUT.

Chris Rhines
May 29, 2004, 11:11 PM
After surviving that fight, training then consisted of exercises including smoke, arty sims and Arabic music played at jet engine dB levels. Heard and understood.

- Chris

Tamara
May 30, 2004, 02:34 AM
I have sold a blue zillion Hi Points to guys with crew cuts coming into the shop and asking "What's the cheapest 9mm pistol you have?"

It is much easier to get personally-owned weapons into the sandbox than it is to bring them back to CONUS, so disposable sidearms in the service caliber are much in vogue...

Wildalaska
May 30, 2004, 03:54 AM
All I know is no Police force uses the 9mm anymore most have switched to .40 or the old standard .45acp. As far as this gun owner the 9mm is good for target shooting at range. And thats where most are used today.

O god, here we go again....:rolleyes:

PS...since no Police Forvc uses 9mm any more, I guess I better get back the 10,000 rounds of 9mm duty ammo I just sold Anchorage Police Department....


PPS...comin from Kimber Country and badmouthin 9mm is poor form...after aLL, my all steel non MIMed HP alwys works....unlike Kimbers :neener:

WildijestloveexpertsAlaska

Nightcrawler
May 30, 2004, 04:18 AM
I think a large part of the military Beretta's bad rap comes from magazines. It seems the military went lowest bidder on the mags, and bought vast quantities of magazines that work about as well as a USA mag churned out three hours before the Assault Weapons Ban took effect.

Bad magazines can ruin any automatic pistol.

I'm not suprised the Sig P226 is doing well, though. The Navy SEALs seem to like it, too. (Despite the opining of some gun writers that no serious shooter would choose a DA/SA pistol.)

El Tejon
May 30, 2004, 09:59 AM
Wild, sorry, was not my intent to turn this into 9/.45 dead horse beating thread #2,387. Just wanted to add to the pool of knowledge about current events.

FWIW, when my instructor was home he carried a 1911, but he followed Musashi's advice about "having no favorite weapon." Guns are just tools, does one need a screwdriver or a hammer--different gear for different jobs.

However, with the exception of Gary, conditions (bands of armed men shooting at you) in Indiana and Iraq are very different. You know how hard it is to find a hot euchre or basketball game on Friday night in Najaf, and they've never heard about veggies on the grill during a cook out.:D

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