[dthomasla]

I have gotten interested in 3-Gun shooting and the entry level rifles that have been recommended to me are the Kel-Tec Su-16 and the Ruger Mini-14. Since I live in California these are the only 2 moderately priced rilfles that are legal and I can't afford the M1A which is also legal.

The main criticism I get about the Ruger is its accuracy: the barrel starts flexing when it heats up. Perhaps this is why it isn't considered real accurate much beyond 100 yards. (In some 3-Gun matches I might have to shoot out to 300 yards). One cure recommended to me is to purchase a heaver after-marker barrel for $300 and it will handle the heat better.

Some people have said to me that the Kel-Tec Su-16 is more accurate, but I don't know why. If the ability to handle heat is an important issue in accuracy then since the Su-16 weighs a pound less, the Su-16's barrel might be lighter or at least not heavier to give it more "heat resistance".

Does anybody have any insights or experience with these issues?

[natedog]

I like my Mini-14. I'd handle both, I've heard reports that the Kel-Tecs feel a bit flimsy. Here's a guide guide to accurizing the Mini-14:

http://www.perfectunion.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1818

All for about $40.

[Kharn]

Well, you did buy a bunch of AR15 mags before the ban went into effect, right? ;)

Have you tried swapping magazines on each of those rifles? It would seem to me that the Ruger would be considerably slower than the Keltec in that regard.

Kharn

[dave3006]

Cut the barrel of the Mini down to 16", the gun will shoot 2-3 MOA and will have no POI shift as it heats up.

Get the PMI mags you purchased in 1993 and forgot about in your garage. You will have a decent (I still like the AR better) gun that will be incredibly reliable.

The SU-16 feels flimsy and has all sorts of reliability problems with GI M16 mags.

[sendec]

IMHO, the Mini barrel issue is way overblown. It was designed to be a lightweight carbine and as such has a barrel like a flyrod. If you switch from a heavy barrel AR immediately to a Mini and commence high-volume rapid fire you may notice a difference in intrinsic accuracy. I would hope so, given that they are two entirely different types of rifles.

I love my Mini. It is far more accurate than I can be. I doubt it would match my HBAR in accuracy, but I would not expect it to. The idea of spending the hundreds of dollars that people do to "accurize" a Mini baffles me. It is a rifle that was designed to be light and inexpensive, so why make it heavy and expensive - in that case start out with a heavy barrel AR.

If you have a realistic expectation of what the Mini can do I would be suprised if you were not satisfied with it.

[railroader]

sendec, the problem is dthomasla lives in california. Heavy barrel ar's aren't an option unless you get one that you have to take apart everytime you load 10 rounds in it. The only .223 semi auto options for rifles that use mags are the keltec and the mini 14. So if you want a really accurate .223 semi auto that's what there is to work with. Mark

[Ant Mod]

I dont know anything about 3 gun, but do you have to use a .223 rifle? If not then there are so many other choices out there in Ca.

[MAURICE]

Mini 14 is a good gun, if you can find reliable hi cap aftermarket mags for it. (Good luck).

Have not shot the SU-16 yet, but have handled one on a few occasions, and I just dont like it. The forearm/bipods pinched the crap out of my finger (bled) when folding them up.

[larryw]

Polishing the SU-16's feed ramps and using green-follower mags seems to resolve the pre-ban mag "problem".

My SU-16 is very accurate and I haven't noticed the shots walking as the barrel heats. Here are two 100 yard three-shot groups from my factory stock SU-16. One group each, Fed 69gr Gold Medal match and Win 55gr White box.

http://www.dimark.com/shooting/su-16_target.jpg

No suggestion for pinching fingers when closing the bipod other than paying attention. :neener: