[firearms_instructor]

Here are my requirements: it has to be lightweight, not overly long, light recoil, and as ergonomically comfy in every possible respect for a small-framed shooter. I prefer at least 9mm caliber. Ideally it would be fun and cheap to shoot.

I'm currently considering the Kel-Tec Sub-2000, but I'd like to know if the Kel-Tec can handle +P or +P+ loads, and whether it's OK to run cheap Russian steel cased ammo through it.

Any of the ladies out there have a fave rifle or carbine y'all can recommend?

Thanks!

[ilmonster]

Well, if a 9mm carbine is your game there is the Beretta CX-4 Storm, 9mm AR-15 varients (olympic PCR-9, Rock River Arms 9mm Colt clone), Ruger 9mm carbine, etc.

[natedog]

What about an AR-15 with a stubby stock?

[Phantom Warrior]

I handled a Beretta CX4 Storm in 9mm the other day and was very impressed. It's a little on the small side for me, being 6'0", but would probably be the perfect size for a woman. Light, easy handling, and comfortable. Very nice ergonomics. And it goes w/o saying that 9mm is cheap to feed. One of those would be worth a look.

[artherd]

The storm is good looking, and well designed.

[PO2Hammer]

How about a Marlin 1894C in .357/.38? With .38's it actually has less recoil and noise than a 9mm carbine.
I have the Ruger PC-9 as well and it is nice and accurate.
.38's in a levergun are easy shooting and she can graduate to .357's later. The Marlin is also more accurate and has a better trigger and has the 'nastalgia' factor that women seem to appreciate.
.223 carbines can be a bit noisey for a beginner.
My wife prefers the Marlin to the Ruger PC-9.

[benEzra]

A Ruger mini-14 would fit the bill in .223, even though my wife makes fun of mine because it's not as powerful as her 1952 Tula SKS. (She calls the mini "piff piff".:p) Noise is not that big of a deciding factor if you wear both plugs and muffs. The mini is very simple to operate.

Kel-Tec SU-16 is sort of a .223 version of the 2000 and has a lot of neat features.

If price were no object, an AR with a red dot sight, 18-inch-ish barrel and fairly short stock would probably be ideal, IF she likes the looks and ergonomics.

[Dionysusigma]

What about an M1 Carbine?

[Cortland]

I'll second the M1 Carbine. It fits all your requirements with respect to size, weight, recoil, power, etc. Auto Ordnance is now making M1 Carbines, and there are plenty of military carbines still available at reasonable prices.

You can't get much more fun than an M1 Carbine; it's the ultimate plinker.

[No4Mk1*]

If you add - Simple to maintain then I would suggest an AK-74 clone. If someone could make 15 or 20 round mags it would be perfect.

[Mulliga]

I've shot the Kel-Tec SUB 2000. Good gun, but had some problems with the magazine. I wouldn't mind running Wolf through it, but the Kel-Tec warns in the manual that "non-European" import ammo does the worst in its gun. It does not mention +P or +P+, but I assume at least +P is safe, since many of the "high-performance" 9mm hollowpoints are +P.

The Beretta is quite nice, and seems built to last, but it is quite expensive. At least the mags are cheap. :) Good ergonomics and a space age feel - perhaps TOO space age.

An AR is always a possibility. It's the most expensive option, but it looks evil, and it gets the gun-grabbers mad! :D

[MLH]

It's very easy to take down and clean which is a plus and you can change the length of the stock with spacers to better fit her. It's a blast to shoot and very accurate. You can get 30 round mags for it too! and with all the different rails you can trick it out to suit yourself.:cool:

[Brian Williams]

I'll second on the Marlin 1894c, they are a great gun and easy to shoot.

[Diamondback]

I also think either the Marlin 1894C or Winchester Compact Ranger ( or the Trapper for that matter ) in .357/.38 would be an outstanding choice. They don't seem to be finicky ...will eat just about anything.........38's out of the little levers are so mild they seem almost like rimfires..........357's are very tame but effective for social work and varmits....and step up to a heavy duty .357 Partition Gold or Core Lok and you have a dandy little rig that will take whitetail and such within 100 yards. And.....they are FUN !
Lot's of other good choice however. It's only my opinion.
All the best.

[mainmech48]

Definitely a Marlin or Rossi LA carbine in .357. Low recoil and noise with .38 Spl.; simple, direct manual of arms; direct visual confirmation of firing/safety status for training; many inexpensive upgrade options for sights, etc.; unsurpassed utility (IMO).

Only downside is that it won't feed wadcutters from the mag. BFD. Remanufactured .38 Spl. RN or SWC nearly as cheap as 9x19 ball in quantity, and just as cheap or cheaper to reload.

[oldfart]

When I lived in Alaska, my wife liked to carry a Ruger .44 Magnum Carbine when she went fishing or berry picking. Like all good insurance policies, she never had to use it except for practice. Still, it was a handy little rifle and it did pack a pretty good punch.

[Mannlicher]

uhhhhhhhh in the Army, I think they arm the distaff side with the same weapons as the guys.
My wife and daughter can handle any of the rifles I have, and with some, just plain out shoot me.

[Trebor]

My wife likes the M-1 Carbine and handles it very well. We've also found that the stamped AK-74 clones work well for her.

We don't have any experience with teh pistol caliber carbines.

[Zeke Menuar]

Any SKS variant.

ZM

[SapperLeader]

Most females Ive seen shoot have liked the ar15 family of rifles. A friends wife has a a3 with stubby stock, and after she put a recoil pad on it, loves that rifle. she can outshoot myself and every other rifleshooter I know. The fullsize stock was too big for her, but the stubby was brusing her, hence the recoil pad. I think the size of the stock will be more important than the caliber. If the gun doesnt fit the lady, she wont enjoy shooting it, just like any guy shooter.

[Ian]

Seems to me that one of the new 7.62x39 Enfields would make an excellent light general-use carbine

[NEtracker]

M1 Carbine, or an AR15 short brl version. Both very light weight and little recoil.

[MrAcheson]

Why not let the lady pick?

[firearms_instructor]

I absolutely intend to, but she's not convinced of the need for a long gun, so I'm hoping to find something she'll totally fall in love with. None of the long guns she's fired so far have done it for her.

[MrAcheson]

I'd go with an adjustable-stocked AR-15 when the AWB sunsets. That way you can enjoy it even if she doesn't.

[Dr.Rob]

What's it for?

A plinker for whacking tin cans isn't capable of stopping a bear.

I'd let her try every 223 you can get your hands on.. a Mini 14/30 can be had a lot cheaper than an M-1 Carbine. Ammo is cheap for either.

Most "youth" stocked rifles are too short for me but the M-1 Carbine does almost feel like handling a .22. Ammo is costly compared to other calibers.

Why not a bolt gun? CZ 527 in .7.62 x 39 or .223 could fit the bill too.

When I was a kid I always wanted a Savage model 180 pump action 3 shot 30-30... that would seem ideal as an all around lightwieght easy to use yet non military looking long arm with reasonable range.

[M2 Carbine]

I got my first M1 Carbine about 1962.
My wife and I were plinking and I asked her to shoot the Carbine. She said she thought it would kick too much.
I emptied a magazine while holding it one handed like a pistol to show her there was no recoil.

She shot it and the rest of the day I spent loading magazines for "her" rifle.:)

http://img44.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/Hazel_shooting_scoped_Carbine.jpg

[roscoe]

Saiga in .223 - almost no recoil, cheap, tough, accurate, etc.

[firearms_instructor]

"I'd go with an adjustable-stocked AR-15 when the AWB sunsets. That way you can enjoy it even if she doesn't." - she fired an AR once, didn't fall in love with it.

Already bought her an HK93A3 (turned out to be too heavy for her) using the female enticement ploy that it matches my HK91 (babes go for the matching thing!). I love the HK93, thrilled to have it (but may have to sell it and/or HK91 unless I have a financial breakthrough soon) but she isn't going to enjoy shooting it, or the Carbine Conversion Unit for my .45, or the Uzi Carbine (all too heavy).

"What's it for?" - ideally for plinking, mostly, but since we live in south Florida and we get hurricanes occasionally, I want my wife to have something with a little reach to it in case social order breaks down (like it did after Hurricane Andrew) after a hurricane, something that she can use to keep a gang of looters at bay, or back me up with in the same circumstances. TSHTF, basically.

"A plinker for whacking tin cans isn't capable of stopping a bear. " - Where we live, bears are not an issue, unless a hurricane blows all the animals out of the MetroZoo (like Hurricane Andrew did!). We live within a few miles of the Glades, so gators aren't totally out of the question. We live in a good, quiet, low-crime area, but a hurricane could change that. I want a fun plinker that can stop two-legged goblins at a little more than arm's length.

[Shalako]

Timberwolf? (http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976460347.htm)
My gal seems to like pump guns over levers and semis. I wish these things were cheaper...

[Domino]

I totally agree tha lever guns are the way to go as a first carbine. I have a Rossi in .45 colt and I honestly have much more fun with that than any of my automatics, and I'm quite deadly with it. Don't underestimate their capability. As far as semi autos in pistol cailibers go, I would get either a Kel-Tec sub or the Berreta Storm both are supposed to be pretty good. And if you want a real gun, CZ527 are sweet, my dad just got on in 7.62X39 and it is a VERY COOL gun. Also, I like my bushy M17s, for a .223 autoloader it works quite well. It is very reliable and accurate. The choices are endless.

[cruffler]

There's no such thing as a "Lady's Rifle or Carbine." That's a marketing ploy.

I've known women who had no problem shouldering .300 Winchester Magnum boltguns and I've known men who thought that the recoil sensation from a 7.62x39mm AK was too much.

It sounds like rather than a "lady" we're discussing a shooter of smaller stature and lighter build, for whom rifle weight, length and recoil are more of an issue than for others, and who is potentially less familiar with firearms than others.

To this end, I think Domino had the right when mentioning the CZ527. Bolt action carbines have the advantages of light weight, simplicity and accuracy.

Why muddy the waters with magazines, release buttons, gas systems, or flying cases? Giving a shooter something solid, simple, easy to learn, and above all, accurate and reliable inspires confidence and fosters additional interest in the sport.

[Mikul]

There is a "Lady's Gun." Most women do not like the weight or recoil of most of the guns we hold dear. They're also physically smaller, so their gun needs to be similarly proportioned.

The guns that I would recommend have already been mentioned, but I'll order them with reasons:
1) Beretta CX4 Storm -- I already stock the ammo. It's light and attractive.
2) AR-15 -- She's already fired one and liked it aside from the way it looks.
3) M1 Carbine -- The same as #2 only more attractive, but more expensive.

I like the idea of a .38 Special lever action. They feel like .22's.

[cruffler]

So I guess there are "Asian person's guns" and "Hispanic person's guns" too?

[albanian]

Seems to me that one of the new 7.62x39 Enfields would make an excellent light general-use carbine


I agree. The Enfields are well suited for women because they have smaller frames in general and the Enfield is a small frame friendly gun. Those carbines are perfect for people that don't want the extra recoil or expense of the .303. Depending on how much you shoot, the extra cost of the 7.62x39mm conversion could pay for itself with ammo savings.

I want one but I won't convert one of my Enfields and I can't see paying the price they ask for one. I think it may be a fair price but I can't do it for some reason. I can get unconverted Enfields for less than $100 so it seems that one converted to 7.62x39mm shouldn't cost more than $200. I think the price is close to $500 IIRC. The bbl can stay, the bolt needs to be fitted, the mag well has to be altered and a few other things but it doesn't seem like $400 worth of work to me.:rolleyes:

[glocking26]

my wife loves my UZI

[glocking26]

sorry bad pic.

[George S.]

I would go with a Mini-14 as a good plinking rifle that can also serve as a varmit (2 or 4 legged) rifle . The .223 round is pretty cheap to shoot (Wolf 55gr FMJ at $2.10 a box/20 at Outdoor Marksman) and recoil is light. A Mini-30 would work too as the 7.62x39 is also a cheap round to shoot and . The Mini is easy to operate and clean and even makes a good truck gun due to its fairly small size. The stock pull on the Mini is the same as the 10/22.

My Mini-14 Ranch is fairly accurate with 3" groups at 100 yds after a trigger job, muzzle brake and a reduced size gas port bushing. Cutting the barrel to 16" can reduce groups to 1 inch or so at 100yds. Pre-Ban 20 and 30 round mags are widely available for defending against shockwave attacks of enemy watermelons.

[Victor Romen]

I can't believe that no one has mentioned the Bushmaster "Lady." ;)

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/carbon15/az-c15r21c.asp

[Combat-wombat]

Victor- You just beat me to it.

[Chris Pinkleton]

That's horrible.

My wife wouldn't get near that ugly thing in a million years.

She has better taste.

[Cortland]

That's horrible.

At least they didn't make it pink (although I'm sure they thought about it).

[NEtracker]

I've seen pink furniture posted, and other colors also!
I guess some Father's really go all out to get their daughters interested in shooting!:D

[N3rday]

Don't get her something pre-colored; let her choose her own!
Cavalry Arms furniture...

http://www.hunt101.com/img/173942.jpg

Seriously though, consider a Cavarms receiver. It is a pound lighter than a standard lower and an A2 buttstock, and is 5/8" shorter than the A1. I have heard great things about them, and am planning to buy one soon!

You know, theoretically you could have a red buttstock, white handguards and a blue pistol grip...the true American rifle. However, I wouldn't ever advocate the use of pink furniture. I guess that's a way for your spouse to tell you to stay the hell away from her firearms.:D

p.s.
lol, it took you guys half a page to mention the Bushmaster Lady?

[MolonLabe416]

Another vote for the M1 Carbine. You might also consider a CZ 527 in .223. See http://www.cz-usa.com/product.detail.php?id=10 for more info.

[mondocomputerman]

I vote the M1 carbine. Another gun of interest is by busymaster, called the lady. It is a nice tan color and has a carbon fiber receiver. It weighs 4 pounds. I don't know about the durability of the carbon fiber receiver though.

[MAUSER88]

My vote goes for the Beretta Storm. It shoots everything. I use lead round nose reloads in 124 an 147 grain without any failures to feed or extract.

[Litefoot]

It is true that our female soldiers are training with the same AR that the guys use. But those aren't HBAR models which are quite a bit more nose-heavy than the standard issue A2. It seems that HBAR is more of the rule rather than the exception these days in "civilian" AR's. I wish they'd get away from that and go back to the vision of the original M-16. Wasn't being lightweight one of THE most important features in it's development?

Anyway, you might want to add an AR-180B to the list as well. It's lightweight, uses cheap .223, burns cleaner and is cheaper than a standard AR15. I'd also endorse a lever gun. They are a hoot to shoot. Mine's a .44 mag.

[MrPink]

Well as others have said I think an AR15 carbine (with lightweight barrel) or a Mini-14 are good choices.

In a levergun, how about a Cimmeron 1873 Trapper in 357? The 16" barrel is handy and the 73 toggle action is slick and easy to manipulate. I fine the Win 94 or the Marlin 94 or 95 harder to operate due to the stronger actions.

[dwestfall]

Another vote for the M1 carbine. Doesn't take much hand strength to operate, is small, lightweight, and has that fuzzy warm wood feeling -- not threatening.

Once when my sister was being stalked and staying at my parents house I went there unannounced and found she had armed herself with the M1 carbine, and remembered how to use it based on the one lesson I had given her.

[cslinger]

......mmmm short carbine for a woman. Sheslinger seems to like her .308 M1A Squad Scout quite a bit. Then there is the Benelli Nova with 3.5inch shells....................maybe this isn't helping. :D

[Dave Markowitz]

One choice I haven't seen mentioned are the now-discontinued Marlin Camp Carbines in 9mm or .45 ACP. The 9mms are fairly easy to come by but you may need to hunt for one in .45.

They are reliable, accurate, and light. The 9mms take S&W 59-series mags, so high-caps are easily available and affordable. The .45s take M1911 mags.

I picked up a Camp .45 last month and it is one fun gun to shoot. My first group, fired from the bench at 25 yards, went into about an inch using the coarse factory sights. Ammo was WWB 230 grain FMJ. Recoil is quite mild, and should be even less for the Camp 9.

I've since mounted a cheap (free :) ) BSA red dot sight on it using a Weaver #63B rail. This thing is going to be the cat's pajamas for close, quick work. If the BSA dies on me I'll replace it with a Millet.

Note: If you get one in .45 replace the wimpy 11 lb. OEM recoil spring with a 16 lb. spring from Wolffe.