[Ohen Cepel]

Went to a local shop today to have the guy order me a cz52 and a Nagant revolver.

He wasn't sure if he could get them in MD due to the case BS requirement.

Does anyone know if you can get them in MD?

He's looking into it, would like to know sooner rather than later.

Another reason for me to hate MD!:cuss:

He also has the Pack-Lite tops for the Ruger Mark II's. Can't sell them due to the same MD BS. This state :banghead:

Thanks for the info in advance

[anapex]

With the age of those guns there's no way the case requirement would come in to play. I've seen a few CZ52s in shops so I know some dealers get them in. I've personally gotten in a Nagant and a CZ52 with my C&R. I'd start looking at other shops, let us know where you are, we have a decent sized group here from MD that can offer up lists of favorite shops in areas.

Oh, what's the pack lite top by the way?

[aguyindallas]

Do yourself a favor. Get yourself a C&R License. It only costs you 30.00 for 3 years. Its a fairly simple process. You can then order those type of firearms over the internet from reputable companies and even get a better deal. Its worth it!

[Crownvicman]

MD does not recognize C&R for handguns, sad to say. That's what the State Police told me, anyway.

[anapex]

I'll repost a letter I got from AAG Bowen about C&R pistols in MD. For me it's enough to get them in, others may (and do) feel otherwise.

Here's the link for the letter.

http://home.comcast.net/~dmmcfar/aagbowencandr.pdf

[Ohen Cepel]

Thanks for the info guys!

Would do the C&R myself. However, till I settle into a location I don't want to deal with it. Still moving WAY too much. I could be gone before the paper-pushers ever get it back to me.

I'm in the Columbia MD area. Plan on heading to the show in Westminster on the 12th-13th. Maybe I can find stuff there if the local guy won't order them.
I have seen them at shows before here. Just didn't want to deal with the BS of going to the guys shop, often an hour away, to pick them up the following week.
I've been spoiled by living in free states!

The Pak Lite is a great upper that fits onto a Ruger Mark II. All Aluminum with a steel barrel insert. They looked very well made, weigh almost nothing. Great for what they were designed for, carrying a lot.
However, since that's the serial numbered part they are having issues in MD. Sad.

[Herb Fredricksen]

Hi Ohen Cepel and a tip of the hat to Anapex and Aguyindallas,

I'm chiming in five months late but here's some current info:

Re the CZ-52 and the 1895 Nagant;

The Silverado Gun Show runs this weekend 11/13 &14 at the Frederick Fairgrounds. Both will be in good supply and are well worth buying, fun to shoot and joys to own even if only as conversation pieces. Walters Gun Chamber has one building to itself for a big "Going out of Business" sale.

SGS has another show next weekend 11/20 & 21 at the Showplace Arena in Upper Marlboro/Largo. if you're still in Columbia you're about mid-way between Frederick and Largo.

http://www.silveradogunshow.com

Re C&R within MD;

Having a C&R in MD is terrific for interstate and out of state purchases, saving time and money, but within the state handgun purchases are all treated the same whether C&R or not. They all need the MSP papers and $10 fee and the 7 day (really 10 day waiting period when weekends are counted) and the nuisance follow-up trip to pick up at the dealer.

Re C&R interstate and out of state;

When you settle down in one place get yourself a C&R and start to enjoy collecting by the internet, the phone on your desk and while travelling. Your purchases will come directly to your 03 FFL (C&R) address with mimimum expense and delay. While I live in MD and buy in MD when necessary, other states get more of my business especially when I travel in other states and can take my purchases home with me as soon as I submit my C&R.

Last night I mailed a copy of my C&R and a money order to Arizona. That C&R revolver will arrive at my door by the end of next week, a one week turnaround. Saturday I'll submit the MSP paperwork for at least a nice Colt 1903 through Walters, and maybe more, but I'll have to pick it/them up in Baltimore 10 days to two weeks later, most likely after the Thanksgiving weekend.

I am a Designated Collector with the MSP so I can buy as many handguns at any one time as I want, no one per month limit, C&R or not. That tends to compensate for other complaints I have with the MD system.

Herb Fredricksen

[one45auto]

I'm in the Columbia MD area....

Ah, a fellow Columbian! :)

I've never been to the Westminster show, but I've been to the Silverado gun shows in Montgomery County (fairgrounds), Howard County (fairgrounds), and the Showplace Arena in Upper Marlboro. The latter is by far the best of the lot, as well as being the largest. I've never yet come home empty-handed from that place.

[Jim K]

If I understand correctly, here is the scoop on C&R interstate purchase in MD.

First, when regulated firearms (handguns or "assault rifles") are involved, the state does not recognize ANY FFL. A dealer in regulated firearms must have a STATE Regulated Firearms Dealers license. (A Dealer FFL is a prerequisite to get the RF dealer license, but is not sufficient to deal in RF's. Buying or selling unregulated firearms is not subject to any STATE law except normal business laws.)

Second, ALL transfers of RF's between individuals MUST go through a RF dealer, with MSP approval of the transfer to the buyer. Again, no FFL is recognized; a RF dealer cannot transfer a RF to the holder of a dealer FFL without the same paperwork as if the transfer was to an unlicensed person.

Third, if a person having a Federal C&R license "imports" (receives in interstate commerce) a RF, he can keep it and there is no law violation. But the MSP say that the "importation" was not "official", so the gun can never be transferred in MD, not even to a RF dealer. To transfer the gun in MD, it must be sent or taken out of state, transferred to an FFL dealer, then "officially imported" by an RF dealer in MD. Once "officially imported", it can be legally transferred in state.

Fourth, some "assault handguns" are totally illegal to own in MD, unless they were registered when the law was passed. I don't know if any of those fall into the C&R category, but if any do, the C&R license will not protect against prosecution for possessing an illegal weapon.

The famous letter from the AG mentioned by ANAPEX is accurate as far as it goes, but some information was apparently deliberately left out. Mr. Curran is vehemently anti-gun and is apparently playing a trick, hoping to trap C&R license holders who try to sell an "imported" RF in the state.

Jim

[anapex]

Jim, Thanks for the extra details that I always seem to forget. Since I'm a pack rat I'm just happy I can "import" them and tend to forget rules about getting rid of them ;) I mean who wants to get rid of a gun anyway?!?

[Jim K]

Hi, Anapex,

I asked the dealer who explained all this to me (and had the MSP paper to back him up) how they would ever know that any given gun was "imported" by a C&R holder if it was later sold to/through a dealer. He had asked that of the MSP and basically was told they would have no way to tell. But, they said that if the gun was ever used in a crime and subsequently traced from the manufacturer/importer to a MD C&R holder, he/she could be prosecuted for illegally transferring the gun in MD.

Could they make it stick if the transfer was to a RF dealer? Reading the law, I don't think so, but they could make it rough if the gun turned up in a bad situation, like a cop killing. Of course, if the C&R holder sold a RF to an individual (even another C&R holder) without going through a dealer, he/she would clearly be violating the law.

Again, all this applies only to handguns and maybe a few "assault rifles". Manually operated and most semi-auto rifles (M1 rifles, M1 carbines, etc. are not "assault rifles" in MD), as well as shotguns, are not regulated firearms, so there is no problem with a C&R holder ordering all the Mausers or lever action Winchesters he wants, as long as they meet the C&R criteria.

Jim

[Rabid Rabbit]

You can obtain "collector status" in MD but the only purpose of the "collector status" in MD is to get around the 1 gun a month law. There is no costs, you fill a form out your local gun dealer has, send it to Jessup and in between 10-21 days you get a letter back saying you now have collector status. Just don't sell too many guns or they will yank your status.

[Jim K]

Hi, Rapid Rabbit and guys,

The collector status is, as you said, only a way to be able to buy more than one regulated firearm a month. It has nothing to do with selling guns, nor with receiving guns from out of state. Sales of RF's to other than a licenesed RF dealer must go through a dealer, regardless of the collector status or Collector FFL of the seller.

I was unaware that the MSP monitored the seller and would revoke collector status for selling too many guns (as long as sales conform to the law). Do you know that that has happened?

Jim

[Rabid Rabbit]

No I don't know for sure, just repeating what the dealer told me. It sounds right though. I think the official party story is this decreases the number of strawman sales. He didn't indicate how many were too many either. MD really makes dealers jump through hoops to get a FFL. I think you have to have a store front not just at gun shows etc.... least ways that is what I remember changing when Clinton turned the screws to small FFL guys. So I guess you could "abuse" the "privilage" of buying more than one gun a month and use it to deal in guns. Kinda of weak, but so is the level of common sense in MD.