A bad taste in my mouth: "Project Child Safe."


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BHPshooter
June 3, 2004, 10:26 AM
My sister came home from school today with one of those cable-style gun locks. She said they had a lecture about guns in the home and gave everyone a gun lock.

Many will ask, "What's the harm?"

What's the harm? What's the harm? There are 2 problems that I've got with this:
1) This is tax-funded, meaning you and I are shelling out our hard-earned overtime to give a gun lock to everyone, regardless of whether they need it or will use it. This gives the image that we as gunowners, as a whole, are unsafe, and there NEEDS to be a federally-funded program to "save the children." Additionally, schools have a nasty habit of poking their noses where they don't belong when it comes to talking about guns.
2) This is part of the anti's "bigger picture," believe you me. In the booklet (which shows sponsorship by the NSSF :scrutiny: ), it lists oodles of "necessities" when locking up guns, like having both guns and ammo locked up, in separate parts of the house...

...See if you can follow me here: It is already popularly believed that you MUST lock up guns and ammunition separately.
If you DO, then a gun is essentially useless as a defensive tool, as it takes lots of time that you don't have to gain access to both guns and ammunition... And if it is useless, you don't need it.
If you DON'T lock up guns and ammo separately, then you are negligent, and shouldn't be allowed to own guns.

Is this another well thought out gameplan of the antis? I think so.

I'd like to hear what you think about it.
Wes

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buy guns
June 3, 2004, 10:46 AM
...See if you can follow me here: It is already popularly believed that you MUST lock up guns and ammunition separately.
If you DO, then a gun is essentially useless as a defensive tool, as it takes lots of time that you don't have to gain access to both guns and ammunition... And if it is useless, you don't need it.
If you DON'T lock up guns and ammo separately, then you are negligent, and shouldn't be allowed to own guns.


thats because the antis dont need guns for self defense because something bad will never happen to them.

and if something does, they can call 911.

:banghead: :banghead:

Zundfolge
June 3, 2004, 10:49 AM
Can you imagine the outrage if the schools handed out Bibles or copies of Ann Coulter's books or any other "right wing propaganda"?

There would be accusations of trying to "politicize" our schools and "indoctrinate" out youth.


But as long as the tracts they had out are leftist, anti gun, pro-gay, anti-christian, anti-republican then its okay.

:fire:


Damn I'm glad I can't have kids.

Mr. James
June 3, 2004, 10:55 AM
Just curious...

...did they give locks to every child?

Or did they question them first to find out which homes "needed" one?

:scrutiny:

iamkris
June 3, 2004, 10:55 AM
{stereotyping alert} My belief is that most academic and govermental institutions are run by the now-grown-up hippies who never gave up their ideologies (the ones that STILL didn't have a brain after they turned 30). They realized that they could not hack it in corporate America PLUS they had the ability to influence other minds in acedemia.

The current crop of teachers have been trained by these folks. While there may not be a COORDINATED attack on our freedoms by these washed out hippies, their approach is certainly effective in that they are driven by an ideology and individually they can spread their word to a captive audience that by and large has little ability to refute them.

Rant off...also please note that I'm not condeming ALL teachers...just those who use the lectern as their bully pulpit for liberal hogwash

DigMe
June 3, 2004, 11:02 AM
Yeah I've been hearing radio ads from project childsafe lately. The whole gist of the ads is "gun crime hurts your family." This whole thing stinks of the gun-grabbers. I'm dissappointed because they've been playing these ads on my local station that carries mostly right-wing talk programs.

brad cook

dleong
June 3, 2004, 11:31 AM
Look on the bright side: the gun locks do make excellent bicycle locks, though.

DL

Goet
June 3, 2004, 11:35 AM
What school district is this?

rick_reno
June 3, 2004, 11:36 AM
It's nothing more than conditioning the next generation now (kids) to believe that when an authority figure (teacher) tells them that they should lock guns up they will lock them up sometime in the future. They don't care if the kid takes the lock home to his politically incorrect parents and they toss the lock in the garbage. The lock isn't important, it's the message that counts. I'm sure we'll see legislation in the next decade requiring guns in the home to be locked - and ammunition to be stored separately. The legislation will initially be authored to require firearm and ammunition storage at a govt. approved facility (shooting club/shooting range) - and the NRA will declare a major victory by negotiating the storage requirement down to locked/separate storage in the home - and we'll have a new generation of people trained to comply.

Spot77
June 3, 2004, 11:36 AM
Not that this would come to my kids' private Catholic school, but if it did, I think I'll send a note to school asking for 12 locks.:evil: for the guns I rarely take out of the safe.


That would still leave a few home defense weapons readily available.:neener:

rick_reno
June 3, 2004, 11:38 AM
It's nothing more than conditioning the next generation (kids) to believe that when an authority figure (teacher) tells them that they should lock guns up that it's the correct thing to do. They don't care if the kid takes the lock home to his politically incorrect parents and they toss the lock in the garbage. The lock isn't important, it's planting the seed of how guns should be stored that counts. I'm sure we'll see legislation in the next decade requiring guns in the home to be locked - and ammunition to be stored separately. The legislation will initially be authored to require firearm and ammunition storage at a govt. approved facility (shooting club/shooting range) - and the NRA will declare a major victory by negotiating the storage requirement down to locked/separate storage in the home - and we'll have a new generation of people trained to comply.
The best part of this is they're using our money to do this training.

The Real Hawkeye
June 3, 2004, 11:49 AM
TheFumigator, you are exactly correct. The more they spread the idea that the responsible thing to do is to lock up your safety ... eh, I mean lock up your guns, the more it will be viewed by potential jurors that you are negligent if you do not. Also, we are seeing them push for laws requiring guns to be locked up, which means that if someone steals your guns and kills or injures someone with one, then you are "criminally negligent per se." That's a legal term of art, by the way, which means that you don't even get to mount a legal defense so long at it is established that you didn't lock up your safety ... ahem, I mean lock up your guns. This is the purpose behind all this, to make it ultimately a crime to have a ready firearm, or at the very least, a tortious act for which you can and will be sued. Once it is established that no one has a legal right to a ready firearm in the house, it can be argued that you don't need one in the house, since it can never legally be left ready to use anyway.

The Real Hawkeye
June 3, 2004, 12:11 PM
Look on the bright side: the gun locks do make excellent bicycle locks, though.True. I use mine to lock up my fence gates. They also make great bludgeon weapons, LOL. Just take one of these cable locks along with a heavy duty pad lock on the plane with you. Leave the cable lock locked, and the heavy pad lock unlocked (You will "need" them to lock up your safety, ahem, guns when you get to your destination, wink wink). If a rag-head takes out his mat knife and announces that you will all be sacrificed to satisfy his Moslem god's blood lust, you just snap the heavy pad lock onto the cable, hold the lock side of the cable lock in your hand and whack the babbling A-rab over the head with the heavy end. So, you see, these things do have SOME uses.

SteveS
June 3, 2004, 12:16 PM
This is tax-funded, meaning you and I are shelling out our hard-earned overtime to give a gun lock to everyone, regardless of whether they need it or will use it.

Is it federally funded? I was under the impression that this was one of the so called "moderate" gun safety groups, like AGS. Even if it isn't federally funded it certainly takes time away from the kids learning something useful.

One local school district by me got a huge grant to develop their own gun safety program. It was a cartoon with a talking skateboard, essentially telling kids to stay away from guns. This seemed like a waste of money, considering that the NRA already has a good children's gun safety program (Eddie Eagle). OTOH, a group of parents in a different school district came in and used the Eddie Eagle pragram in class rooms. I think if enough parents complained about "Project Child Safe" and offered to teach an alternative, some schools will listen.

BHPshooter
June 3, 2004, 01:38 PM
Is it federally funded? I was under the impression that this was one of the so called "moderate" gun safety groups, like AGS. Even if it isn't federally funded it certainly takes time away from the kids learning something useful.

Yep, federally funded.

It says:
A nationwide program to help ensure safe and responsible firearms ownership and storage, developed by the National Shooting Sports Foundation and supported by a U.S. Department of Justice grant.

:barf: Just what I want to be paying for. You know, a lock like that costs about $3.00. I bet the program costs MUCH more per lock. :scrutiny: Funny how government works. :rolleyes:

Wes

Sawdust
June 3, 2004, 01:53 PM
I don't give a rat's patootie who is paying for the locks (well, yes I do, but I have bigger fish to fry here). To wit:

School is for teaching academic subjects; home is the proper place for the teaching of gun safety.

Sawdust

AZ Jeff
June 3, 2004, 02:02 PM
Not only do the leftists who control our education system preach that all guns must be locked up, but many of the manufacturers are supporting the program by default.

I have bought 3 new guns in the past two years, and ALL of them came with LOCKS. Worse than just having the locks, ALL the owners' manuals had LARGE SECTIONS devoted to how to properly use the lock.

The way the manuals are written, it seems that locking the firearm up is more important than how to operate said firearm.

As others posted, this is a FIRST STEP towards indoctrinating our society that ALL FIREARMS are to be locked up when not actually being used. The SECOND STEP is that the government will REQUIRE such locking. The THIRD STEP is that using approved locking methods/procedures will be a PREREQUISITE for OWNING a firearm.

If you don't beleive this is the direction the anti's want to go, just look at the UK, and their firearms ownership/storage regulations.

By the way, I found another use for the locks--they are a great way to keep thieves from stealing the spare tire on my truck:D

sturmruger
June 3, 2004, 02:11 PM
Too bad they aren't funding something that makes sense like the Eddie Eagle program. All this sugar coated leftist BS makes me mad!!

Herself
June 3, 2004, 02:41 PM
I do like the notion of "free" gun locks as handy blunt-force applicators!

Much as I loathe programs like this, I do lock up my guns (just in a safe -- if a thief can get that open, a piddly little cable lock is nothing) when not in use. But the carry gun du jour, in my purse, on my hip, in my hand or on the nightstand, is "in use," and it's for-sure loaded, safety on and unlocked.

If a Bad Guy visits my home, he'll have to bring his own weapon; I'll not leave any of mine where they are easy for him to grab. And the same for relatives, friends, the very short visits of census-takers ("Sorry, my religious faith -- Eastern Kyfo -- does not allow me to participate") and the even shorter ones of salesbeings of any stripe: if they want to bear arms in my house, they'll have to provide their own. I'm not runnin' a library of personal artillery!

However, such gun-programs in schools can often be shown to have political or religious bias. Christians, Jews and Muslims in the audience, please note that in many readings of these faiths, "self-defense" is a duty; you're just on loan to yourself from the Almighty, and mustn't let avoidable harm befall yourself. This can be used to limit such programs. Objectivists and non-religious proponents of Locke's notions about "self-ownership" are on shakier grounds with this: "religious persecution" plays ever so well to the Left.

If gun-owners as a group are even slightly demonized, if egregious errors of fact are present in the material (the ever popular all-plastic Glock which can whiz right through airport x-ray machines, for instance), those too can serve as a lever to uproot such gun-grabbing lunacy.

...And offer a viable alternative. NRA's program is certainly less biased....

--Herself

SiG Lady
June 3, 2004, 02:49 PM
"Look on the bright side: the gun locks do make excellent bicycle locks, though." --dleong Wow, a great idea in the process...! Add to that: Write a thank-you note to the school for 'the nice bicycle lock' and see if it either embarrasses or angers anyone! :neener:
:p

HankB
June 3, 2004, 02:59 PM
Thefumegator:My sister came home from school today with one of those cable-style gun locks. The Real Hawkeye: They also make great bludgeon weapons Hmmm . . . can anyone else make the connection?

Bully harasses kid. Starts pushing kid around.

Kid hauls out SCHOOL-PROVIDED lock and cold-cocks bully.

Zero tolerance kicks in - KID HAD A BANNED WEAPON! PUNISH KID!

Court hearing: SCHOOL PROVIDED KID WITH BANNED WEAPON! PROSECUTE TEACHERS, COUNSELORS, PRINCIPAL for contributing to delinquency of a minor and encouraging violation of zero-tolerance.

Feel free to fill in the blanks. :evil:

The Real Hawkeye
June 3, 2004, 03:20 PM
"religious persecution" plays ever so well to the Left.Actually, Herself, persecution of Christians doesn't bother the left at all. They do quite a bit of it themselves.

P.S. I have three large gun safes. Just don't like to have liberal schools lecturing to kids about gun safety. That's like vegetarians lecturing them on the merrits of hunting.

jwmoore
June 3, 2004, 03:25 PM
HankB,

I like the way you think! :D

~W

roo_ster
June 3, 2004, 03:35 PM
"Always store firearms and ammunition separately."

How can one do this when all guns are always loaded? ;)

bogie
June 3, 2004, 03:41 PM
Hey, I may be weird, but I remember being taught, and it was either boy scouts or 4-H, when I was a wee little kid, that firearms and ammo should be stored separately and locked up.

Get a grip. There's a difference between storage and defense.

Herself
June 3, 2004, 05:05 PM
The Real Hawkeye wrote, and with good cause:
Actually, Herself, persecution of Christians doesn't bother the left at all. They do quite a bit of it themselves.
They do most of it, don't they? But it embarrasses them when they get caught at it. Paint yerself as a "victimized minority," and a good many of the bedwettingly-liberal trip over it. Hey, Quakers aren't forced to swear on a Bible, Seventh-Day Adeventists get a pass on "flag worship," it's about time more folks looked into such measures.

...Alas, my own faith gets very little recognition. Tsk. Seems they think it's a joke.

--Herself

Guy B. Meredith
June 3, 2004, 05:32 PM
Uh, the cable lock is good for what? How old is a child before they find out about hacksaws and bolt cutters? You don't have hacksaws and bolt cutteres? So the cable lock prevents taking the gun to a friend's house where there are hacksaws and bolt cutters?

Dumb, dumb, dumb. False sense of security.

Standing Wolf
June 3, 2004, 08:00 PM
Not in my house!

9 m&m
June 3, 2004, 09:06 PM
I was at the police dept and they gave me 2 of them locks. They are still in the bags they came in, sittin on my dresser. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Treylis
June 3, 2004, 09:29 PM
The more they spread the idea that the responsible thing to do is to lock up your safety ... eh, I mean lock up your guns, the more it will be viewed by potential jurors that you are negligent if you do not.

I really think we're losing the cultural battle for RKBA here. The fact that something like that would even be considered...

PATH
June 3, 2004, 09:59 PM
:D Does anyone here really think that the kids listen to the teachers? We tell kids not ot smoke and drink and what do they do? They go out and smoke and drink! We tell them to do and not do a lot of things. Does anyone here remember being a kid.

I lock my guns and ammo seperately save for those I use for defense. If the firearm is not on me or needed by me it is locked up plain and simple.

Keep telling kids guns are bad and what do you think will happen? They will want to find out about guns! You folks will be out there to show them the light! There will be those who swallow the horse hockey but they are nowhere near the majority.

When I student taught I found the kids to be tough to reach. In this day of x box and gameboys it is hard to keep their interest. The best way to lose kids is to lecture them in school. So I feel that if the lefties want to preach down to kids they will in the end lose the war.

So to my left leaning friends I say, "rave on McDuff"! Thanks for the cheap cheesy lock!

REMEMBER, don't let them get you angry! Make them angry by keeping a cool head and a sense of humor!:neener: :evil:

BHPshooter
June 3, 2004, 11:53 PM
Get a grip. There's a difference between storage and defense.

I agree... but the antis don't. Not once have I ever heard about an anti saying "unless you're using it for home defense. Then it's hunky-dory."

Antis don't care about you. They care about hearing of violence on the news. So when you have to shoot Julio, who is cranked up on PCP and trying to rape your wife, that counts as violence, and that is unacceptable to them. They want people shooting people to stop -- they don't care if it was justifiable, or in-the-right, they want shooting to stop. That means they'd rather have you tied up watching thugs rape your wife, shortly before they slit your throat, than to have you shoot them and have your family happy and safe.

They are YOUR enemy. I suggest we uniformly recognize that, and treat it as the realistic threat that it is. There is more than just politics at stake here.

Wes

Kruzr
June 4, 2004, 12:04 AM
http://www.projectchildsafe.org/news/042003DOJ.cfm

$50,000,000 DOJ Grant!


“President Bush learned about Project HomeSafe when he was governor of Texas, launched it there as Project ChildSafe and pledged to expand its scope and support if he was elected president. He’s delivering on that pledge now, and NSSF is honored to be selected to administer this timely and valuable safety program,” said Bill Brassard Jr., NSSF managing director, communications, safety and education.

c_yeager
June 4, 2004, 02:29 AM
Whats worse is that these people have so many locks that they don't know what to do with them.

The Washington State Patrol asked for some to distrubute. They wound up getting something like a whole lot more than they needed. They had so many that they were giving them away to local buisinesses to give to their empoyees. My facility (1200 employees" got sent close to 1,000 locks. We still have them sitting in cases of 100 in our office. The state patrol advised us NOT to contact the program if we wanted more locks cause they send out a minimum of 10,000 at a time.

Your tax dollars HARD at work.

Treylis
June 4, 2004, 03:46 AM
“President Bush learned about Project HomeSafe when he was governor of Texas, launched it there as Project ChildSafe and pledged to expand its scope and support if he was elected president. He’s delivering on that pledge now, and NSSF is honored to be selected to administer this timely and valuable safety program,” said Bill Brassard Jr., NSSF managing director, communications, safety and education.

Wow, I'm so glad that most of the folks here--who are supposedly pro-firearms-rights--are voting for this guy in November.

Zach S
June 4, 2004, 08:44 AM
For some odd reason I'm kind of amused at the thought of my ten year old sister raising her hand and saying "I need a lot more than one."

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