Some times it all comes together.


June 5, 2004, 09:20 PM
The countless hours trying different loads. The quest for affordable bullets, powder and primers that will yield a good load. The training, the dry fire, the repetitive drills. Day after day week after week, year after year. Finally a light goes off. Mind, body and gun all show up to the range on the same day ready to shoot.

Today after years of trying to shoot as well as I used to as a young trooper with the ease of good eyes and steady hands it all come together. I took two guns a TRP operator 1911 and a 9mm 1911. 400 rounds of ammo each.

I fired all 800 rounds at 3 inch black targets shooting as fast as the range would allow. The pace was about one round per second, at 15 yards. I missed the black 13 times in 800 rounds. I felt like a machine. Front site…watch the site rise. Front site press… the site rise. 9 of the out side of the black hits happened in the first few minuets of shooting. After that I had near perfect trigger control.

In fact having done a lot of bench rested shooting with those guns I am confident I was shooting very near the mechanical accuracy of the guns and loads. I feel ten years younger and very relaxed. I don’t remember the last time I felt so focused.

Today was the payoff for two years of heavy practice. Next week I will practice some more while I think about a new set of goals. Guys it was a good day.

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June 5, 2004, 09:36 PM
Jim ... that is one heck of a result! I honestly doubt I'd manage that and I've been shooting a long time . I daresay I'd be suffering fatigue well before the 800 was thru. I sure would want a mag loader person with me tho - that'd help!

Indeed, it feels good .... no DAMN good ... when this sorta stuff comes together. It vindicates all the hard work put in. I am pleased for you and share your obvious delight!:)

June 6, 2004, 12:53 AM
Way to go...........that was inspiring and refreshing.

I've been wanting to get out and practice myself lately and have not done so due to all the daggone rain we've been having. I'm really chomping at the bit now.

Yes, sometimes it does all come together. What a feeling.

June 6, 2004, 09:36 AM
So don't keep us .45 reloaders in suspense, what was the load?

June 6, 2004, 09:57 AM
Sounds like time to hit the reloading bench! Good shootin' and what's the load?


June 6, 2004, 10:13 AM
Yeah, this thread is utterly useless without load data!

j/k, sounds like a great day.

June 6, 2004, 10:44 AM
Ahhhhh the load. Guys you have now got me on my soap box.

I Use Win 231 5.2 grains +/- .1 Under a 230 grain Dry/Molly lubed
Lead round nose bullet. Mixed well used brass and Winchester Large pistol Primers. COL is right at 1.25

These are loaded in a Dillon 650. This explains why I have grown used to shooting really large round counts.

I buy my powder Bulk from Powder Valley Inc. They charge 89.95 for a 8 lb keg. I buy three at a time. Next time I am going to buy Tight Group because it is 6 dollars a keg cheaper and uses less powder.

I also buy my primers from Powder Valley Inc. 13.65 per 1000 I buy 25,000 thousand at a time. I buy primer and powder at the same time to save shipping and spread the unlawful hazardous shipment Tax out over the entire order. (20.00) No sales tax.

I will also buy some small quantity special order bullets from them and what ever else I need to get the order over 200 lbs. This drops you into a reduced shipping charge.

The bulk of my Bullets I get from Bear Creek Bullets out of WaterFord CA. This is within driving distance for me. I go buy 30,000 to 40,000 thousand bullets at a time from him and pay cash. This gets me a sweet deal. I don't want to let the cat out of the bag but lets just say a thousand 230 gr 45's projectiles cost me about 30 dollars to put on my bench.

It costs me about 55 to 60 dollars to shoot 1000 really good, clean, accurate rounds of .45

Brass I scrounge off the range. That is becoming more of a problem since the Winchester started making those STUPID 45s with small pistol primers. Starting to see .45 GAP rounds mixed in with my range culls to. :cuss:

Not a big deal however I have four 5 gallon buckets full of Once fired brass I sent off to Carrol bullets and they inspected them all and chamfered the primer pockets for ease of use in a progressive press. They did this for 6 dollars per thousand. So I guess my brass is not free. I have been using the same five gallon bucket of brass over and over again for 4 years now. The brass shows no sign of wearing out. I guess I have a life time supply.

When I load, I load hard. I have 20 primer tubes filled with Large pistol primers. I have my bucket of clean brass with a small coffee can sitting in it grab cases to fill the automatic case feeder. The can holds almost exactly 200 cases enough for two primer tubes.

Goes like this:
Sat Morning 8 am I start to load. I run through 500 rounds on the 650 in about 30 Min's and top off the Powder. Then I do another 500 hundred.
I take about 10 Min's at that point to top everything back off and vacuum powder dust and any traces of lead shavings from the press. Give it a once over for any problems. I leave it ready to go for next time.

Then I step over to the Dillon 550 and load 9 MM. I run through 300 and then top off the powder and do another 300. This takes a little over a hour. I add a few Min's to top off the supply's and clean the press up.

Total time 2.5 hours and I have enough for two good range sessions.

Dring the week in my down time when I don't feel like sitting in front of the boob tube I load up primer tubes and tumble brass.

The 9mm load is 4.2 grains of Win 231 under 124 grain FMJ Montana Gold bullet. These things cost me more than forty five because the dang bullets are so expensive. But I shoot them in a gas retarded recoil opertated gun (HK P7M8) So I don't load lead to often in 9 mm. I also have found it hard to get lead to shoot really well with high round counts in 9mm. I think the velocity is just to high and the bore starts to lead up.

The biggest problem I have is that I have a LOT of 1911 pistols and all of them are different. Recently I have made a real effort to set all the triggers to about the same weight and use the same grips, Grip safeties, thumb safeties and mainspring houseings. This keeps them feeling the same. It is really helping.

June 6, 2004, 10:54 AM
Ahhhh sorry about the long winded reply. I had verbal diarrhea.

June 6, 2004, 11:49 AM
Jim ... your verbal ''looseness'' is more than excused!:D

Thx indeed for a full description ..... just makes me wish I was younger and so able to usefully change and go up to high output progressives. I tend to just bumble along with my faithful ol' Lee turrets .. and shoot a tad less volume than you!!:p

June 6, 2004, 12:51 PM
Jim ... your verbal ''looseness'' is more than excused!

More than agreed!

I had no idea that the round count out of a progressive could be so high in such a short amount of time.

One will have to look into this.

June 6, 2004, 02:05 PM
Not gonna lie to you Werewolf.

It is not easy or cheap to get setup to load superfast and get good safe results. But once you do its pretty easy to keep production levels high.

I could have saved myself lots of trouble by Just reading the Dillon manuals and following thier advice. But being a Ex-military Adult American male I know how to do everything perfectly. :what:

This of course caused me to take over a year to get the 650 press working correctly. I could have taken an hour if I did not have to work through my stupid ideas first.


June 6, 2004, 02:18 PM

Nutt'n wrong with turrets or single stage press setups. I have two Single stage press set ups on my bench. Great for make new loads up a few at a time. Finding what works and then duplicating it on your progressive.

I also do rifle loads on a rock chucker press. But then again I don't shoot 500 300 win mags in one range trip either.

Don't let age keep you from putting a progressive press on your bench. They are fun!, and you deserve to have some fun right?

Imagine getting to unbox that thing.... watching the video that came with it.
Drilling the new holes in the counter..... Thinking about mangeing your brass in groups of 1000s instead of hundreds!

High Volume range trick:

I use a big old rubber maid tub with cloth strips hanging inside it to catch my brass. I bet I have to pick up less than 10 pieces in a thousand shot!.
It carrys all my stuff to the range on folding cart, catches my brass and brings it all home. All that for a whopping 4 dollars. :)

There are many ways fellas to take the drudgery out of this and focus on the part that we all love. SHOOTING!

June 6, 2004, 02:21 PM
So you have a load that works this well and you're going to change for something that is $6 cheaper per keg??? I don't get it...


June 6, 2004, 02:33 PM
6 Dollars cheaper per keg and uses a grain less per load. This is actually
a pretty big savings. Additionally Tite group does meter very well and is there for useful for progressive presses.

Also some experimenting I have done and one of my friends has duplicated seem to indicate a "softer feel" when shooting. In other words the Recoil impulse feels different.

It also seems to be very clean burning and may likely be a all around better powder for 9mm.

Win 231 gives me some issues with 9mm. I have to use a REALLY hot load to get my Hi power not to short stroke. I have no idea why? The Hi Power runs fine with factory ball. ( what little I have been willing to buy!)

June 6, 2004, 08:19 PM
Congrats on a great day, most happy that your investment finally paid off. I learned a while ago that everything you try that doesn't work gets you one step closer to what does, so do not fear failure. Those who do not try, do not learn.

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