[Shmackey]

Unless I've got it wrong, the barrel's fixed and not locked to the slide. So the alignment of the sights to the barrel is dependent on slide-to-frame fit.

So how does it manage to be so accurate? Is the slide-to-frame fit that good?

[Peter M. Eick]

It pretty darn tight!

I would guess it is because the fit is tight, there is no recipocating mass and 9mm is not a hard kicking round. I would also venture to say a lot has to do with H&K quality and decent sights.

[KMKeller]

Fixed barrel.

[wally]

Jennings has a fixed barrel :-)

More to it than that I'd wager. :D

--wally.

[Shmackey]

Jennings has a fixed barrel :-)

More to it than that I'd wager.

Exactly. A fixed barrel on a revolver is accurate because it's always aligned with the sights the same way. That's most of the reason, anyway. On an auto, I would think a locked-breech design would replicate sight/barrel alignment best. A fixed barrel does no good if the slide--and therefore the sights--flaps around. (Not saying a P7 slide flaps around, but is it really unusually tight? I never really found that to be the case.)

[Sean Smith]

First of all, the P7 is no more accurate than a high-end locked breech pistol, and less accurate than some of those. So there really isn't anything mysterious to explain about its performance. A P7 isn't likey to out-shoot a P210-6 at 50 meters, for instance.

The fixed barrel just makes it EASIER to get a certain level of accuracy, because you only have to stick the dang barrel on the frame correctly ONCE. With a locked-breech pistol, you have to build it such that the barrel-slide lockup (barring funky alternative locking systems...) is perfectly aligned shot-over-shot as the weapon cycles.

And all the P7s I've seen had tight slide-to-frame fits. Remember, it only has to be tight enough that the naked eye can't see any play shot-over-shot, since the naked eye is the instrument using the sights. :)

[Shmackey]

I agree with you (as usual), at least mostly. One thing I'd challenge is the idea that it needs to be only tight enough that the naked eye can't see a difference. Shooting out some 25 or 50 yards will magnify even the slightest change in alignment, such that you'll see on paper what you couldn't see on the gun.

Most important was your first point: it really isn't any more accurate than an accurate locked-breech pistol (it's not like people use them for the centerfire leg in Bullseye). I guess it's really just surprisingly accurate, as opposed inherently magical.

And thus the case is closed, the original question being a little off the mark.

Sure are neat guns though.

[Kingknives]

Besides the fixed barrel and slide frame fit. A light.....short......trigger.

[Pilot]

Both my P7M8 and P7 PSP have absolutely no play in slide to frame fit. None. The gun is accurate for a small, CCW piece, not compared to dedicated target pistols. Its very accurate for a small 9MM that used to be comparable in size to most .380's. Now with polymer stuff, Kahr's and the like its not as unique, but still a special pistol.

[Sean Smith]

One thing I'd challenge is the idea that it needs to be only tight enough that the naked eye can't see a difference.

Consider this: the slide doesn't influence the mechanical accuracy of a P7 at all. It only influences how well the shooter can aim it. If the "error" introduced by the slide having some side-to-side or up-and-down play is smaller than the "error" inhereint in the shooter's eyesight, the shooter will never be able to discern it is there at all.

[wally]

Take the naked eye out of it. Shoot a P7, a Jennings, and the traditional locked barrel/slide gun of your choice off a Ransom Rest and measure the group sizes -- POA vs POI don't matter, just group sizes. This is the gun's accuracy (and ammo's! so use the same lot of ammo for all three guns).

Any bets as to which one will have the worst groups? :)

--wally.

[Frank Exchange Of Views]

I have often thought that the squeeze cocking action encouraged a more consistent grip on the P7 that might contribute to better observed accuracy.

My P7M13 was the centerfire pistol I shot the best until I had the opportunity to shoot and then acquire a SIG P210 - the HK comes in second place now.

Nothing wrong with the HK is that regard, it is still accurate - I just shoot the SIG better today.

[Peter M. Eick]

I thought about this for a long time last night (as an owner of multiple P7PSP's). I think the key is the high quality of steel used, the careful finishing of the barrel, fixed barrel and the good sights. Finally the bore axis is very close to your hand, so it is an intrinsically easy gun to shoot well.

On the other hand, it is an easy gun to shoot accurately. I am not saying it is "more accurate" then my sig 210's, only that it is "easier" to shoot more accurately.

Thus if you buy the hardware side of the story then it is quality. If you buy the software side of the store it is ergonomics.

[Ascot500]

Using the logic that a fixed barrel is going to give you a more consistant point of impact than a moving barrel - relative to frame - then other guns with fixed barrels should have the same advantage:

Makarovs, Hi-Points, PPK's, Lorcins, etc.

But in reality do they?

In my own experience, the Hi-Point was no more accurate than a Ruger P-85. I have not had opportunity to try others.

Also in my own experience, any service grade revolver will out shoot any service grade auto.

Anyone else?

[jimmyjoebob]

true but keep in mind for the compact size of the P7 you have a fixed 4inch barrel.

I think the mak is what 3"?

[Feanaro]

Using the logic that a fixed barrel is going to give you a more consistant point of impact than a moving barrel - relative to frame - then other guns with fixed barrels should have the same advantage:

Makarovs, Hi-Points, PPK's, Lorcins, etc.

Those handguns all have that advantage. And there is a significant quality and price difference between them and the P7. Hi-Points and Lorcins are, well, cheap. In price and construction. The PPK and Makarov less so but they aren't in the thousand dollar class by a longshot.

A fixed barrel compared to a locking barrel of equal quality will normally produce better mechanical accuracy. There are fewer moving parts to affect the consistency of the groups. Practical accuracy is a measure of the sights(Quality, size, radius) and ergonomics(The bore axis in relation to the hand, the trigger, the fit).