Gun in "Big Jake" with John Wayne


June 7, 2004, 10:55 PM
Watched Big Jake this past weekend and one of his son's was carrying a gas operated pistol called the Bergman 1911. Of course this was kind of odd since the movie was set in 1909. The son called it a pre production model to explain the date discrepancy. Can't post a picture since it was on a vcr instead of a dvd.

Did such a gun exist?

It did have a rather odd shape for an autoloading pistol.

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Kodiak AK
June 7, 2004, 11:05 PM

June 7, 2004, 11:06 PM
LOL ... Instaposted by Kodiak :p

Was it this?
Found an article on a Bergmann 1908 ... that might be the correct gun (although the article is not in english ... looks like Spanish.

June 7, 2004, 11:22 PM
I only remembered having him say it was a "1911," and that it was gas-operated... :confused: I thought gas-operated handguns were a ways off in 1909. :scrutiny:

Regardless, the actor that plays that son drives me NUTS! Can't stand him!


June 8, 2004, 12:46 AM
That actor is Robert Mitchums son. The actual shooting in the movie was accomplished with a Walther P-38. I always wondered about the springloaded holster idea.

Travis McGee
June 8, 2004, 01:11 AM
Great gun flick! I love those turn of the century cowboy flicks with their mix of old and new tech, such as motorcycles and scoped rifles.

June 8, 2004, 06:37 AM
There were two "son's" in that movie. Robert Mitchum's son (the guy with the motorcycle and scoped rifle), and John Wayne's son (the guy with the "Bergmann.")

If you look closely, the gun seems to be a P-38 with some attachment under the barrel for looks. It definitely has an exposed hammer, and it accepts the mag in the butt, so the real Bergmann is out.


June 8, 2004, 07:55 AM
"That actor" with the Bergmann is Patrick Wayne playing Jake's oldest son James McCandles.
Christopher Mitchum played Michael McCandles.
Bobby Vinton played Jeff McCandles.

Patrick recently auctioned off most of the Wayne firearms collection. As I recall at one time it numbered over 1000 pieces. :what:

June 8, 2004, 08:16 AM
It did seem odd that it was loaded through the grip, especially with what appears to be a magazine in front of the trigger in the movie.
Yes, Micheal seemed a bit too proper for someone raised in west TX, though I guess we should presume he spent a lot of time in Europe or the east coast..
The young boy who was kidnapped was Wayne's young son Ethan.
Also the movie was produced by another Wayne son, Micheal.

June 8, 2004, 11:55 AM
Man, I love that movie.

Just bought the DVD & it has a few extra scenes.

BG "Jacob McCandles? I thought you was dead."

JW "Not Hardly."

June 8, 2004, 01:41 PM
If I'm not mistaken, Patrick Wayne's first roll was in "The Searchers" as a Cavalry lieutenant. Not a very good actor but ok. The Duke's other son looked a lot more like him IMO.

June 8, 2004, 10:39 PM
Well all 3 of Wayne's wives were of latin decent which would explain why Mitchums charagter looks more like Big Jackes son than Waynes' actual son.
The kind of odd thing is that K. O'hare played JM's wife and she has flaming red hair.
Wayne has brown hair she has red hair and children are blond and black haired.

Back on topic:
Wayne favored SxS shotguns in this movie. He called them Greener's or Greeleys, I couldn't catch which he was saying.

The scoped rifle that MIcheal was using was a bolt action but didn't look like a Mauser or '03. It kind of looked like a typical sporter but I don't know of any such bolt action rifle like that availlable back then.

The other guns, six shooters and lever action rifles looked like your typical old west guns.

June 8, 2004, 10:48 PM
Greeners. This was a shotgun made by W.W. Greener. They had a very positive bolt lock up. There were bolt action rifles back when. The well heeled sportsman could buy and import many forms of european firearms then. Big Jake could have legally owned a Colt potato digger machine gun. Remember Tiffany bought and donated a potato digger for TR and the Rough Riders.

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