Extreme Garand Butchery...not for the weak of stomach


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hillbilly
June 8, 2004, 09:07 PM
Okay, I confess.

I've got plans to redo a Garand.

I'm getting a Greek RG from the CMP and putting a .308 barrel on it, maybe even a synthetic stock.

I know how some of you on this board feel about modifying Garands.

However, my plans pale in evil comparison to the horror beheld at the link below.

Before you click on this, carefully consider the terror that might haunt your dreams from now on.


http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=5735049

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Dave Markowitz
June 8, 2004, 09:49 PM
MY EYES!!!! AHHHHH!!!!

I couldn't help it, I was drawn to it like a a roadside accident.

Hillbilly, you are a bad, bad man for posting that link..

jame
June 8, 2004, 09:54 PM
I am one of those that feels that making changes to a milsurp to make it for shootable OR making a real rustbucket into something else is OK, BUT.......

That has to be one of the most pathetic things I've ever seen.

There's a 1917 Springfield at local pawn shop here that is in a similar condition. I should just buy it, take it to the previous owner, and beat him with it.

Kaylee
June 8, 2004, 09:55 PM
wow.. you know.. that's actually kind of cool. :o

Um.. how did they get the gas system to work, chopped down like that?

hksw
June 8, 2004, 09:59 PM
Although I do like the look and profile of the Garand, I found that sample for auction actually an interesting exercise. Always interesting to see other people's imagination.

Millions of Garands and Springfields out there. Why do they all have to look the same?

Dionysusigma
June 8, 2004, 10:01 PM
I am embarassed for two reasons:

1) The thing has 25 bids (at this posting).

2) It's in my state.

I hope that after the first 8 shots, the clip bashes into the scope, destroying it, and the new (old?) owner realizes how tasteless this project was/is.

Steve in PA
June 8, 2004, 10:25 PM
That is one ugly rifle.

Little Loudmouth
June 8, 2004, 10:45 PM
AAEEAUGH! NOOOOO!

EEK! Interesting thing, the seller calls himself "Garand lover" and he can do THIS to one?! HOW CAN HE? EEEEEEEGH!

Exposure
June 8, 2004, 10:46 PM
As an M1 owner myself I think I can safely ask the question, "Why does everyone care so much?" :confused:

How many M1's do you think are sitting at the bottom of the English Channel or rotting in a jungle never to be touched again. At least this one survived, albeit in a very altered form.

I mean c'mon, if someone wants to do something to their rifle that you don't agree with then what's the harm? I have seen sporterized M1's that look way, way worse than that. Not saying I like it but geez, lighten up guys!

Duke of Lawnchair
June 8, 2004, 10:58 PM
I like it!

Too much haterade up in dis mug!

cool45auto
June 8, 2004, 11:25 PM
OH MY GOD!!! NOOOOOOO!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

JohnKSa
June 8, 2004, 11:32 PM
It's better looking than a Benelli R1.

Brian Maffei
June 9, 2004, 12:17 AM
I like it. :evil:

rbernie
June 9, 2004, 12:21 AM
Heh - I like it. I bet those deer never know what hit 'em....
:D

N3rday
June 9, 2004, 12:24 AM
I like it, but it seems too short. Also the stock should have been long enough to cover the gas tube. Besides that, its not all that bad. However, I am disturbed by one statement the seller made:

It has a scope.

If that isn't flaunting your grammatical skills, than what is?
yes, it has a scope. I can see that in the picture. That's like saying :

Here is my rifle. It has a barrel, some handguards, and some sights. Bids start at $350. Have a nice day.

c_yeager
June 9, 2004, 12:42 AM
Well, not ALL rifles come with a scope so it's kinda nice to know wether or not its included in the purchase price.

And really ive seen a few dozen Garands that all look identical so seeing ONE person that wanted to be different doesnt really bother me.

Especially when you consider that a well done sporter is likely to see a lot more actual use than a relic sitting in someone's closet.

I mean think about it. If there really were some kind of "old ghost" living in that rifle which do you think would make it happier;

A) Collecting dust in some dudes closet
B) Plinking soda cans
or
C) Being carried through the woods and used to take game.

Its an easy answer for me.

Andrew Wyatt
June 9, 2004, 01:16 AM
that was actually kinda cool.

gulogulo1970
June 9, 2004, 01:22 AM
Thats not so bad. I don't mind sporterized milsurp guns. Looks to me to be a new lease on life for some old beaters.

Shoot, I expected to see a purple or green Garand.

Skunkabilly
June 9, 2004, 01:26 AM
How does one load it?

Nick1911
June 9, 2004, 01:46 AM
Oh boy.

When I read the title and saw that the last post was made by carbon fiber tacticality man himself (http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&q=tacticality&btnG=Search) , I knew it would be bad. :D

I never cared much for the sporterized versions of military arms; they were designed and built for their purpose, and generally don't work well in other roles.

Nick

Nightcrawler
June 9, 2004, 02:05 AM
Why did they destroy the excellent M1 sights and replace them with the imprecise buckhorns that so many sporter rifle has? I don't mind open sights, but the sporter sights aren't as sharp, usually, as the ones you'll find on like a Mauser rifle.

Skofnung
June 9, 2004, 02:20 AM
I have mixed feelings on this one.

On one hand, the owner of the rifle had the right to do that to the gun. It is his rifle after all.

I have no problem with sporterizing Mil-Surps. I even LIKE some sporterized rifles.

However, that is one UGLY Garand.

Jaeger
June 9, 2004, 03:39 AM
It is better looking than that Benelli R1.

I just don't know..........I don't hate it. It's definitely interesting. I think it might be kind of cool in it's own weird way. I hope the guy didn't have any M1A rifles lying around!

cracked butt
June 9, 2004, 04:43 AM
To each their own. I understand that some guys like their women to have penises, so people liking this altered M1 no longer suprises me that much.:barf:

artherd
June 9, 2004, 05:16 AM
That's grose, but I like Oleg's evil synthetic-stocked Garand very much!

MatthewVanitas
June 9, 2004, 06:52 AM
I walked into the party late, read the threads before the pic, and assumed everyone was whining about a Tanker Garand or some sort. Something along the lines of the FDR (http://www.defense-training.com/fdr.html)

http://www.defense-training.com/images/jffdr.gif

So, I was thinking "Man, just lighten up a bit". Then I actually went and looked at the pic. I'm not going to say that it's an offense to history, as c_yeager and Exposure make good points. I will say that it's an eyesore, regardless of what receiver it's built on. It almost perfectly sums up my least favorite period of firearms aesthetic taste: goofy euro-stock, painfully glossy varnish, etc.

Then again, I also think the Browning Cynergy looks pretty cool.

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/images/013230m.jpg

And, for the record, I think Oleg's Garand is slicker than ferret snot. -MV

http://www.a-human-right.com/_grab-enblock.jpg

JShirley
June 9, 2004, 07:36 AM
Well...I'm not much of a traditionalist. Hell, I thought the repro cut-down Sharps with glued-on red dot sight Preacherman told us about was a cool idea.

I don't care much for the M1, either...

but that's just wrong. Would look better if it were a turnbolt.

John

Kharn
June 9, 2004, 08:16 AM
That ain't right. :fire:

Kharn

Thunderstick
June 9, 2004, 09:29 AM
I'll tell what is worse than looking at the rifle! Knowing that somewhere someone is proud of the work they did on that rifle! That's what wakes me up at night!

Coronach
June 9, 2004, 12:11 PM
It makes one want to buy it and fix it.

"Its ok, baby...we'll find a nice Boyd's stock and a new barrel and...a whole mess of other stuff...and everything will be fine."

Mike ;)

30Cal
June 9, 2004, 12:21 PM
It was probably done a ways back when Garand parts were basically free and the rifles didn't cost much more. It's tastefully done and the workmanship looks pretty good.

The ones I don't like are the ones that still have the military profile, but have been polished or worse yet, chromed. I'm not a big "tanker" fan either.

Ty

MAUSER88
June 9, 2004, 03:27 PM
Pretty strange to see it wearing that furniture. WOW

roo_ster
June 9, 2004, 03:57 PM
From the auction:
The only thing wrong with the rifle is the rose tip.

Au contrair, there is MUCH wrong with that abortion.

Ktulu
June 9, 2004, 04:01 PM
GAH! I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

mtnbkr
June 9, 2004, 04:10 PM
Au contrair, there is MUCH wrong with that abortion.

Ok, other than it being a Garand, what exactly is wrong with it? Based on the picture, it's one of the nicer sporter jobs I've seen. I can't figure out how the scope works with stripper clips though. Is it possible to modify a Garand so that it doesn't need them?

Chris

Kaylee
June 9, 2004, 05:40 PM
I dunno Thunderstick.. if I'd managed to retune an M1 gas system so as to get it working cut down like that, I'd be feeling pretty proud of myself. It does look like a pretty tricky technical problem the builder solved, and he *did* do it tastefully. :)

All told.. I've seen precious few sporterized M1s, probably because they're so much harder to do than surplused bolt guns. So it's not like it's *hard* to find one in original condition anymore.

I must admit, the more I look at that thing, the more I like it. Now I've no interest in doing that myself.. but nonetheless, it does look like an interesting toy to take woodswalking. :)

RustyHammer
June 9, 2004, 07:06 PM
:scrutiny:

H&Hhunter
June 9, 2004, 07:52 PM
OK it's been asked before but I have second the question. Hiow do you load it and where does the little block thingy goe after round 8??

Looks like a nightmare and some gunsmithing collided on that one.:barf:

Erik Jensen
June 9, 2004, 07:59 PM
http://www.chronicle69.com/images/PumpkinPuke.jpg

Nick1911
June 9, 2004, 09:15 PM
:p :eek: :D

Beretta92F, that is hilarious!

Nick

SteveS
June 9, 2004, 10:28 PM
People are free to do whatever they want with their guns, but I would have to say that I don't care for those modifications.

I also have to ask....why? At one time, milsurps were so cheap and it was an inexpensive way to get a hunting rifle. If you get a Garand through the CMP and do all the modifications, oyu would probably spend more than you would for a brand new Remington or Winchester. Oh well, to each his own.

Beetle Bailey
June 9, 2004, 10:30 PM
OK it's been asked before but I have second the question. Hiow do you load it and where does the little block thingy goe after round 8??

Not sure about that particular rifle, but it is possible to mount the scope at an angle and not directly over the top of the rifle. In other words, if you are looking at the rifle from behind, the scope is in the 10:30 position, as opposed to the 12 o'clock position on most rifles. You can get a special cheekpiece to match, so that you still get proper cheekweld. Then you would be able to use the Enbloc clips normally. That's probably what that guy did, unless he figured out another, more complicated way to do it. . . Hope I explained that clearly. ;)

MeekandMild
June 9, 2004, 10:58 PM
I really like it. :D

Crimper-D
June 9, 2004, 11:10 PM
Nice job........but GAD! :scrutiny:
I've seen pics of 'sporterized M1's before, at least this specemin was well done. Most "chop jobs" leave a LOT to be desired... this one, however grotesque to milsurp lovers, is at least nicely finished (shudder) - if you want a Garand that is trying to 'pass' as a Weatherby.:rolleyes:

Gator
June 10, 2004, 03:39 AM
Well, I sure do think that one is pretty ugly, but I do own one modified Garand myself, although NONE of the mods are irreversable!

http://img44.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Galt38/Misc/tanker1full.jpg

Mine has a "Holbrook Device" installed which allows it to be loaded one round at a time just like a bolt rifle, also the clip does not eject when empty and the magazine can be topped off at any time. I can also load the entire eight round enbloc clip if I desire and then push the clip release when it is empty to eject the clip (just like a magazine fed rifle).

Years ago a kit was marketed (sorry, I forget the name of the company) that converted the Garand to a straight pull bolt action. The bolt action conversion still required the op rod and spring to function, but the gas cylinder was dispensed with. I suspect that the rifle in question may have had such a conversion and has also been modified to allow single loading and no clip ejection; this would allow the scope to be mounted over the receiver.

Sounds like a lot of work for a funky looking hunting rifle, but it is an unusual piece!

Black Majik
June 10, 2004, 05:20 AM
If that isn't flaunting your grammatical skills, than what is?

*ahem*

It's "THEN what is?"

...sorry I had to... :o :D


As to the rifle, I think I kinda like it in a weird sorta way. That is, if I didn't know it was a Garand to start out with. But hey, I'm not a Garand enthusiast like many on the board anyways. :)

H&Hhunter
June 10, 2004, 08:10 AM
Beetle, Gator,

Thanks guys that pretty well explains it.:)

Dr.Rob
June 10, 2004, 11:27 AM
Yeah the scope doesn't look offset like on an M-1 sniper model... though the high comb might be offset to the left.

Have to wonder how you load it? And yeah... where does the en-bloc go when it runs empty? Looks like it would hit the scope.

(notes of all the guys claiming to barf how many would buy an M-1 barreled action for $350?)

Coronach
June 10, 2004, 11:38 AM
ahem...wouldn't that be 'an M-1 chopped-barrel action?'

Just a nit-pick. If I had a mess of Garand parts laying around and a desire to (re)build a Garand, I would likely be bidding on that, I will admit it.

But I don't, and I don't, so I'm not. ;)

Mike

Publicola
June 11, 2004, 06:49 AM
The scope is offset. If you d/l the pic & magnify it you can see it's a side mount & it looks like the cheek piece on the stock is aligned properly for the scope.

Honestly I've toyed with the idea of a different stock shape before. Something a bit slimmer & more racey perhaps. But I'm a fan of long barrels & don't think I'd be allright w/o the handguards on a Garand.

Here's another sporterized garand for y'all to check out (http://www.gokart.net/shop-utopia/mccann/rifles/garand/Garand.jpg) . It's made by McCan & he's not only changed the wood & barrel configuration a bit, but he chambered the damn thing in .338 Win Mag.

I like the way a Garand looks as is but I'm not so much a purist that I wouldn't think about any changes or berate others for making them. Well, as long as the worksmanship was decent & it was still functional.

BTW, from what I understand (I never tried it myself) you don't really need a "kit" to change the Garand into a straight pull bolt action. What you need is a gas cylinder lock screw valve that has a big hole in it. This'll keep the gas cylinder/front site from wobbling while letting the gas escape that would normallly push the op rod.

I'm mixed on whether I like the looks of the BM-59 pistol grip stock on a Garand. The folding stock looks cooler (imho) but I'm not sure how functional it'd be. I've actually been thinking about a thumbhole design....but that'll be a ways off if I ever get around to talking Wenig to do that in a nice nutmeg laminate.

WhiteKnight
June 11, 2004, 11:07 AM
It's not that bad looking.

Daniel Watters
June 11, 2004, 12:50 PM
Many moons ago, the American Rifleman ran a how-to article for sporterizing the Garand, including the permanent modification (cut/weld) of the magazine assembly to hold only five rounds. The latter was more to take the belly out of the stock, but also had the side benefit of complying with certain states' hunting regulations. The gas cylinder modification looks to be similiar to the one shown in the picture.

There is a reprint of the article in The NRA Gunsmithing Guide.

JShirley
June 11, 2004, 05:00 PM
Publicola, a .35 Whelen would make more sense, and be at least as useful.

John

Publicola
June 12, 2004, 12:25 AM
JShirley,
The thing about the .338 Garand isn't the specific chambering - it's that the Garand can be modified to accept cartridges of that power level. It's got a very particular gas system as is & using powders too fast or slow or bullets over a certain weight can damage the op rod. McCann has a system that apperently negates those limitations, hence a .338 Garand. (Schuster has one too, but to my knowledge it's only been used on '06 Garands)

Besides, a .338 would make a decent plains rifle should you take your Garand on safari (& what self respecting Garand owner would leave his/her Garand at home whil he/she goes to Africa???). In the end it's a matter of preference but there are some applications where a .338 would work better than a .35 Whelen. Not that there's anything wrong with the Whelen - it's a fine cartridge. It's just that some people prefer different cartridges than others for speciic purposes.

Now personally all this does me no good. I don't have any safari's planned & for my needs an '06 is just fine. Preferable even. & if I did want a .35 whelen or a .270 chambered Garand the modifications necessary would be relatively minor (a new barrel more or less). But I am impressed that if I did want a .338 WIn Mag Garand that someone with some time on his hands has paved the way.

Obviously the Garand's action length eliminates a lot of the belted magnums (say of the H&H variety) but I'd be curious to see if McCann could work his magic for one of those short magnums. A Garand launching a 180 grainer at 3000 fps would be a helluva thing to use on elk. Not to mention the BC of a 180 to 200 grainer at close to 3000 fps would make the 600 yard target's 10 ring a little easier to hit.

But like I said it's probably of no concern to me cause I'm real happy with the '06.

0007
June 12, 2004, 05:05 AM
gator - If you don't mind my asking, where did you get the stock you are using?:confused: :confused:

Gator
June 12, 2004, 10:41 PM
0007,

I got it in a trade, but it came from Reese Surplus (http://www.reesesurplus.com/) , look for item #20 in the stock section.

They say it will fit right on an M1, but for proper functioning a slight modification must be made; the wood has to be built up on the left side so that the clip latch pin does not walk out.

http://img44.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Galt38/Misc/tanker_1.jpg

You can see the added piece of wood, it is slightly darker. The mag well can also be filled in, it is not necessary, but it looks a lot better.

http://img44.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Galt38/Misc/tanker_3.jpg

And one little cut out on the right side was also filled in.

http://img44.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Galt38/Misc/tanker_2.jpg

There is a gap around the trigger housing, but I left it as is.

http://img44.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Galt38/Misc/tanker_4.jpg

A bit of work, but the only way to get an M1 stock with a pistol grip!

My sincerest apologies for the triple post! I don't know what happened.

Gator
June 12, 2004, 10:41 PM
:(

Gator
June 12, 2004, 10:42 PM
:(

0007
June 13, 2004, 06:47 AM
Thanks. :D Building a .308 M-1 and thought it would look pretty neat with that style stock on it.

mohican
June 17, 2004, 12:01 PM
My garand wears a ramline stock, and has the B-Square side mount scope mount. The only problem with that is that is dispenses with the rear sight.


I guess I'll have to find another garand to shoot with the issued peeps :D

mohican
June 17, 2004, 12:03 PM
I noticed special operating rods for conversions to 338-06 and 35 whelen

Does anyone reputable build a 300 win mag conversion?

Jason Demond
June 17, 2004, 07:45 PM
Another piece of history destroyed!
Why would someone butcher a great rifle like that?:mad:

Bainx
June 17, 2004, 08:31 PM
It's kind of like a Mini 14 gone horribly wrong!:p

N3rday
June 17, 2004, 11:57 PM
*ahem*

It's "THEN what is?"

...sorry I had to...

DAMMIT!!!:banghead:
It was a fluke, I tell you! A FLUKE!

VG
June 18, 2004, 06:37 AM
There were all sorts of books published after WWII about sporterizing military rifles. For WWII veterans, carrying a rifle that reminded you of the times when your best friends brains were scattered all over you and you carried his blood on your uniform for three days of combat was not considered very desirable, not to mention the weight and length.

That was a well done example. But the marketplace tends to take care of such matters, demonstrating how you can spend many hundreds of dollars to turn a $500 rifle into a $350 rifle.

Northwest Cajun
June 18, 2004, 09:04 AM
mohican,
These guys make a 338 win mag garand

http://www.mccannindustries.com/rifles/rifles.html

Cajun

natedog
October 20, 2004, 10:09 PM
Restoring an M-1 to it's original glory through refinishing and perhaps a new stock doesn't bother me- heck, I'm even interested in a tanker.

That's just wrong, though.

albanian
October 20, 2004, 11:41 PM
I don't like it. I am open minded about these things but they made it look like a Browning BAR or Remington semi-auto hunting rifle. They ruined the tough and stout looks of the M-1 and made it look like a pansy deer rifle.

I have seen a M-1 that was chopped a bit to make it look like a Tanker and it had a matte hard crome finish and black fiberglass stock. I thought that looked cooler than the originla M-1 but the one at AA doesn't look good to me at all.

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