No Guns' Signs Come Down in Ohio


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Waitone
June 10, 2004, 04:26 PM
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/6/10/124403.shtml

'No Guns' Signs Come Down in Ohio
Susan Jones, CNSNews.com
Thursday, June 10, 2004

Signs reading "no guns allowed" are coming down in some Ohio stores and restaurants.
Ohioans For Concealed Carry said it was pleased to announce that two national chains, Southwest Ohio Kroger stores and Perkins Family Restaurants, had "begun removing discriminatory signs banning concealed handgun license-holders from their stores."

So far, at least nine national chains and nearly 50 other businesses have removed their signs and opened their doors to holders of Ohio concealed-handgun licenses, the group said.

In a letter announcing the removal of the signs, Marc Teaberry, the executive vice president of Perkins Family Restaurants, noted that the restaurant chain had "numerous locations in Pennsylvania, which has always had a concealed-weapon law, and have never had any problems." Teaberry said that the company, in posting the signs, had received "bad advice" from its attorneys.

Ohioans For Concealed Carry said it also had received reports that Kroger stores in the Cincinnati Division (which includes greater Dayton) had begun removing their "no guns allowed" signs.

"It is not yet known if this action is in any way related to the assault and robbery of a 70-year-old Kroger customer outside a posted store on May 23," Ohioans For Concealed Carry said in a press release.

The group's Business Education Task Force says it has been working to "educate business owners about the facts surrounding concealed carry." The campaign includes a "do not patronize" list of businesses that carriers of concealed guns are advised to avoid.

"Ohioans already are being forced to learn that businesses on the Do Not Patronize While Armed list are dangerous places to be," said Chad Baus, OFCC spokesman. "Already, customers and employees at 10 retail stores and banks on the list have experienced violent criminal encounters. And that's just the ones we know about."

Ohioans For Concealed Carry says it wants business owners understand that it's in their own best interests to remove the "no gun" signs and allow the concealed-carry law to work.

Copyright CNSNews.com

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P95Carry
June 10, 2004, 04:31 PM
This seems great .... and will hopefully snowball. Being however the inveterate cynic .. I'll wait a bit longer before I allow the grin to spread fully!

El Tejon
June 10, 2004, 05:17 PM
:cool:

Gee, how long have Perkins and Kroger been in Indiana? As long as we've had our LTCH statute, 70 years now. Where are the problems once you cross the Ohio/Indiana line?

Think I'll go carry in my local Payless (Kroger) today.:)

Standing Wolf
June 10, 2004, 10:45 PM
Already, customers and employees at 10 retail stores and banks on the list have experienced violent criminal encounters. And that's just the ones we know about.

I'm sure the leftist extremists would consider that a mere coincidence.

Flyboy
June 11, 2004, 12:25 AM
I was excited to read the good news this afternoon. I don't shop at Kroger (nearest one is a couple of hundred miles away), but my mom does. I wrote up a nice letter for her to send the management, which she did. I don't know if it was the letter-writing campaign, or the assaultS in their parking lots, but they backed down, and decided that letting their customers defend themselves might be good for business.

Now that mom's back to shopping at Kroger, I suggested she send them a thank-you note, and include her next (large) receipt to show them what they gained by rethinking their policy. That got me thinking, though....

First, when writing "I'll not be back, so long as the policy stands" letters, it would be a good idea to include receipts--several, if possible, to show them what they're losing. You can also include competitor's receipts, with the notation that "this would have been yours." Nothing terribly novel here, but it leads to the next idea, which is....

What if we all coordinated those receipts? What if we all got together, sent (copies of) our receipts (credit card statements, whatever) to one person, for tallying, then sent a letter detailing total sales losses? Anybody can say "yeah, I won't spend my hundred bucks with you," but they'd have to take notice if we all, as a group, said "we'll take our money elsewhere, all $1,232,551.92 (and here are the receipts to back up that number!)." Nothing like cold, hard numbers to back up your complaint, especially when those numbers have multiple commas. :D

To that end, I submit the following proposal: a web site where individuals can post their previous purchases at gun-unfriendly stores, and current purchases at said stores' competitors. Obviously, we'd need some sort of confirmation of purchase, to prevent Joe Random from saying "yeah, I spent five hundred bucks there!" That could be handled (ideally) by sending scanned copies (faxes, whatever) of receipts (with identifying information--credit card, shopper card number, etc--elided, of course) with the dollar report. Failing receipts, credit card statements (again, with heavy use of a black marker) showing date, store, and amount of purchase would also work. Stick all that in a database, and it'd be an easy matter to run a quick SQL query to tally up the total sales (or non-sales) for the month, quarter, year, etc. and send a letter to management with $BIGNUM in losses.

For additional fun, send such a letter to the shareholders at 10K time, or show up at the shareholders' meeting(s).

A friend and I discussed this over a couple of pints this evening, and decided the technical end is quite workable. We're willing to do the back-end work, but we need to figure out if it'd be worth the trouble. How many people do you all think would contribute to such a system? Would you?

Does anybody have any suggestions for such a system? Obviously, privacy and security have to be paramount concerns; users' names, personal information, etc. have to be protected, if collected at all. Verification of sales claims (for credibility) has to be taken seriously as well. I would hope that I could arrange a partnership between THR, TFL, 1911 Forum, etc. to get the word out, and drum up more supporters.

I think something like this could be highly effective, particularly against companies that make anti-gun decisions for business reasons (instead of ideological reasons). Kroger claims to have instituted the policy on the advice of its' lawyers; in other words, it was a financial decision. Let's show them that, financially speaking, it's a terrible idea.

Ideas? Post here, or PM me. If the mods want to move this to another forum, that's fine too, but it seemed to make sense here, in this thread.

Coronach
June 11, 2004, 01:09 AM
Actually, that sounds like an email that needs to be written to Ohioans for Concealed Carry. Off the cuff, it sounds like a good idea. OTOH, gunowners tend to be a suspicious sort...most of us don't have those saving cards offered by all of the big chains becuase we don't want or spending habits to be perused by anyone else...and now you want them to mail in their receipts? Hmmm. I dunno. ;)

Plus, I shred all my receipts if I don't need them anymore. Sorry. ;)

Also, for those keeping track, here is another business: NationsRent. Dunno if it is just the one near me, but it has a big 'NO CONCEALED WEAPONS IN THIS BUSINESS' sign just inside the door.

Mike

JPL
June 11, 2004, 01:38 AM
MMMmmmmm, Perkins...

The finest CRAP that can be shoveled out of a septic tank, plopped onto a plate, and passed off for food anywhere. :fire:

My job takes me to Ohio and other places where this poor excuse for a restaurant exists, and I always dread traveling with one of my coworkers.

For some reason he is in love with Perkins and pretty much refuses to eat anywhere else.

A few months ago I finally pulled up in front of a Perkins, told him to get the hell out of the car, and I'd see him back in 2 hours.

He feigned surprise when I told him that if he wanted to eat there, fine, but he was going to eat there by himself as I was sick of the place.

"I never knew you didn't like the place!"

Not surprising, Larry.

You're dumb as a box of rocks, and have all of the listening comprehension of a dead gopher.

Perkins and Shoney's have the same secret slogan -- "It's not food, it's not good, but we charge you for it anyway."

Flyboy
June 11, 2004, 10:25 AM
Actually, that sounds like an email that needs to be written to Ohioans for Concealed Carry. Off the cuff, it sounds like a good idea. OTOH, gunowners tend to be a suspicious sort...most of us don't have those saving cards offered by all of the big chains becuase we don't want or spending habits to be perused by anyone else...and now you want them to mail in their receipts? Hmmm. I dunno.

Yes, I agree that we tend to be suspicious, and for good reason. I don't have a savings card, and I do make reasonable efforts to keep my business, well, mine. That said, I think it can be done anonymously. By redacting identifying information (credit card number, in particular, if paying by card), a receipt is just a piece of paper with a store name/location, date, perhaps time (which can be redacted), and a list of items and prices. By preserving only the store, date, and purchase list, there would be sufficient evidence to prove that a purchase was made, but not enough to prove who made it. Cancelled cheques, with the bank routing number, account number, signature, and name/address redacted would work well, too; they just need to show a date, a "pay to the order of" to the desired company, and an amount.

I'm also not necessarily suggesting sending the receipts to the stores directly; rather, I'm suggesting sending a redacted copy to the web site, along with the purchase report (just a date, store, and total sale, so the database has numbers). The web site would be run by a (hopefully) trusted, pro-gun third party with an eye toward privacy. Logs would be scrubbed after, say, four hours, no personally identifiable information will be kept about users (beyond a username), etc. I have done some work along these lines before, and the guy who'd be helping me has as well; we're both privacy nuts, and pro-gun; we have absolutely no desire to compromise anybody. Really, we'd be slitting our own throats if we did; this whole idea depends upon the support and trust of the members. The choice of what to submit, and where to use the black marker, would be left up to the individual user; obviously, the more verifiable information present, the better, but even sending receipts at all would be optional (but highly recommended, for credibility purposes).

As far as sending to Ohio CCW: I'd be interested in doing that, but I don't want to restrict this to Ohio; I'd just as soon have it be a national site. 7-11, here in Oklahoma, would be on the list, for the same reason as Kroger (note: I don't know about 7-11 stores in other states). Southwestern Bell (now SBC) is on the NRA's least-wanted list; I'd love to be able to send them a letter saying "we have two thousand customers who've switched to Birch, et al., and have the phone bills to prove it." Pizza Hut clearly needs to have a section; how much do gun owners spend on pizza every year? Don't need to give names, just anonymous bills.

Anybody see any reason this can't work? I recognize that there are significant privacy implications, but I think they can be managed. Other thoughts?

Henry Bowman
June 11, 2004, 10:40 AM
Teaberry said that the company, in posting the signs, had received "bad advice" from its attorneys.
Lot of that going around . . .

Flyboy
June 11, 2004, 10:45 AM
Teaberry said that the company, in posting the signs, had received "bad advice" from its attorneys.
Lot of that going around . . .
Send lawyers, guns, and money...

But I thought the lawyers were the problem....

Henry Bowman
June 11, 2004, 10:48 AM
Among lawyers it is well known that it is only 99.9% that give the rest of us a bad name. :evil: Ask El Tejon. He'll back me up.

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