Problems w/ 9mm 1911


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10-Ring
December 28, 2002, 07:04 PM
Shot a buddy's brand new SA loaded 1911 in 9 mm. Shot fine except that it suffered from some light primer strikes & the slide didn't go into battery a few times.
What would cause that & what would be the best/easiest way to fix it?

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Kevinch
December 29, 2002, 12:02 AM
You need to convert it to a .45ACP - it obviously knows it was born with a birth defect, that being chambered in 9x19.....

:p

But - the light strikes could be the ammo - did you try more than 1 brand? Not going into battery could also be ammo induced - brass not sized properly, or a tight chamber.

I'd run it a little more with different ammo & check the results.

Wildalaska
December 29, 2002, 12:21 AM
I have been really leery of SA quality control..if it still mishaps after changing ammo, send it back...

Stephen A. Camp
December 29, 2002, 12:21 AM
Hello. The failures of the slide to fully seat could be due to a number of things among which might be:

1. Still a tight fit from the factory and will wear in with use and possibly not lubricated.

2. Recoil spring too light; not likely, but possible. Saw it ONE time on a CZ85 and only later learned that some CZ recoil springs were a bit lighter than the 14lb factory rating for the 9mm.

3. IF the chamber's a bit tight, it could prevent the round from being fully chambered w/o additional force. If really tight, it won't seat at all. (I recall one poster on another board having this problem with one of the symptoms being the slide failing to fully seat when firing.)

The light primer strikes could be related to problems with:

1. Ammo. Some batches of Seiler & Bellot have extremely hard primers. IF this was even the ammo you were using, that MIGHT be a contributing factor. Had some in .45 ACP that was so hard-primered that two different 1911s would barely even dent the primers while other rounds from the same lot number worked like a peach. In 9mm, I experienced the same thing when helping a fellow do some testing with a HK MP5.

2. I might be wrong on this, but I THINK the latest Springfields are using titanium firing pins to pass the drop test required in some states. If I'm wrong, someone will surely correct it. Anyway, I don't know for sure, but I seem to recall reading this at the 1911 Forum and the cure was a steel firing pin.

Hopefully, some of this might be of help. Let us know what shakes out on the deal.

Best.

GunGeek
December 29, 2002, 12:53 AM
Had this same problem with a SA 1911 9mm, got to the point of FTRTB about 50% of the time.

Sent it in to SA under warrenty and I haven't had a failure since!

SA quality control is seems to be going down but they are willing to make it right if you send it back.

10-Ring
December 29, 2002, 01:38 AM
I was told today that the gun had just been picked up & he hadn't had a chance to clean & lube it prior to shooting it...hopefully before the next shooting session, the gun will be properly cleaned & lubed.
As for the ammo, he brought a small quantity of reloads, UMC, PMC and I tried some Winchester FMJ's. All seemed to have at least a few light strikes.

GunGeek
December 29, 2002, 11:36 AM
So it was brand new? I wouldn't even worry about it till you have 1000+ rounds through it. Probably just needs to be broken in.

10-Ring
December 29, 2002, 12:09 PM
Thanks for all the replies. I'll tell buddy to clean & lube and we'll see if it's still like this in another 800 rounds. :rolleyes:

chieftain
December 30, 2002, 06:50 AM
One other major problem, it's a 1911. Known the world over for the ability to Jam!

BHP9
December 30, 2002, 09:39 AM
One other major problem, it's a 1911. Known the world over for the ability to Jam!

Actually the opposite is true of the original quality John Browning designed 1911's. May novice handgunners have only known of some of the late model substandard clones currently being made that are known for having problems. Its not one of design but of quality.

All the original 1911's were perhaps the most reliable and rugged military handguns ever made in the history of the world. Its one of the things that made them so famous. The younger crowd of course knows none of this and bases its view about the reliabilty of the 1911 on many of the 1911's being made today that are not being made to the original John Browning specs and quality.

The original 1911's were famous for three things. 1. Its large deadly caliber. 2. Its absolute reliablity under the severest conditions. and 3. It simplicity of complete take down right to the bare frame with no tools whatsover in a matter of seconds.

Most of the famous experts on weapons down through the years have used the 1911 as the basis for comparing all other military pistols, thats how good it really was back when they built them to original John Browning specs.

Tamara
December 30, 2002, 09:46 AM
2. Recoil spring too light; not likely, but possible. Saw it ONE time on a CZ85 and only later learned that some CZ recoil springs were a bit lighter than the 14lb factory rating for the 9mm.

There might be a bad batch running around. The last NIB 9mm Springfield I saw had a recoil spring I wouldn't trust to operate a ballpoint pen, much less a semiautomatic pistol.

Add Wolff spring, problem goes away.

10-Ring
December 30, 2002, 10:36 AM
Is the stock wt on the recoil spring 12#'s?

John Forsyth
December 30, 2002, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by chieftain
One other major problem, it's a 1911. Known the world over for the ability to Jam!

Why is it that someone always has to bash 1911's? What did you do chieftan, buy a first off the boat Charles Daly or a AMC and think that all 1911's are the same? I am surprized you did not say "Buy a Glock", or is that for the next post. :rolleyes:

9x19
December 30, 2002, 05:19 PM
I am surprized you did not say "Buy a Glock", or is that for the next post.

That proves it!

There simply cannot be a 1911 thread without Glocks being brought up... it's just NOT possible! :D :p :D

chieftain
December 30, 2002, 05:24 PM
John Forsyth,

Why do I bash the 1911, because I wanted to stay alive! Novel concept in shooting today.

Number one requirenment in any combat weapon, reliability.
Don't matter what caliber, how big, how fast, how deadly if it don't go bang!

1911's go bang less than any well known combat pistol that I know of. That simple, personal experienc. I don't need to here about the others, I don't trust many of them either. I have chosen SIG's, and my research and personal experience has shown me that only the double Stack SIG's, are worthy of the record of reliablility. If you talk to a GunSmith that really knows SIGS he will tell you about the Trigger bar spring in the 220 and 225. I know I still own both. In the 225 the Cult SIG there is even a problem with the Magazines, not to the extent with the 1911 but enough that I won't carry it for serious social purposes.

The exception to the above may be the 239, they use a new design on the spring and I agree it should solve the problem, in fact I have modified my 220's&225 to the newly designed spring.

But if you want proven reliability choose 226/228/229 and go bang every time.

My old Gunney had a lot of sayings about small arms, heres a couple:

All weapons break, some just break sooner and more often than others.

'Handguns' are great weapons, until you need a weapon.

This guy thought the 7.62 was a wimp load, if it wasn't 30-06 he didn't think it could haul the load. Didn't really know alot about guns out side of issue weapons, but he knew combat, I believe Siapan and Iwo Jima. and a few others. I listened and I learned. Some talked about theory, some talked about staying alive!

Take your choice! Remember, in the Military if your using your pistol, you are up to your ass in gators! And if you Sh*t fails, you ain't going home to tell war stories and drink beer. So all those stories you heard were only from the guys who won. think about it!

The good news is most guys don't have to resort to the pistol, because never forget what the Gunney said about pistols.

Either way, you asked why some people knock the 1911, I can't answer for them, just for me.

Let me ask you the other side of the coin, why do you put a religious belief in an out dated design that everyone needs custom work to keep it going?

take your choices, for your reasons.

If you should ever need your 1911, I hope and pray, yours shows up.

Fred

Brian D.
December 31, 2002, 05:08 PM
About six or seven of my shootin pals have bought these SA 9mm Gov't mods since they came out. One of the guys decided to ask their Cust. Serv. a few questions, as the guns seem to be a little picky about mags. This is known to SA, and they are working on it, I believe they switched to a different supplier, as well as design. Also, some of the guns have ramped, others non-ramped bbls. Oddly, Springfield sees what is available from its vendors and makes frames cut appropriately. (Seems to me like cart pulling horse but oh well.) Don't know if they'll settle on one design or the other, seems like that would make parts/repair issues simpler. Also, SA told my pal that break-in with something hotter than generic 115gr. ball might be good idea--I think somebody posted that earlier. Oh, chieftain just a note: Too much generalizing can be a BAD thing. I certainly don't think of Lee Harvey Oswald right off the bat when the subject of Marines comes up. I'd rather focus on all the good examples of 1911s (and Marines) than the few that "just ain't right". Also,while I agree SIG has a good track record its ergonomics are such that I could never use one nearly as well as the 1911, maybe not well enough to save my life! So I'll have to stick with what works--and BTW none of my 1911s have ever needed more than minor tweaking to run perfectly, most all of it stuff I just did for myself, especially after I had a little time "behind the wheel" as it were. Happy New Year (you aren't gonna reply like Sam Elliot's character in We Were Soldiers or Sgt. Hartman in Full Metal Jacket are you, this is a family forum!;) )

chieftain
January 1, 2003, 01:05 PM
Brian,

If the 1911 had one out of every few million going bad, the Lee Harvey Oswald analogy would be valid. It isn't.

I didn't generalize. It's like saying criminals can go straight. Damn few do. Just enough to keep the cunard alive, by liberals and others that have financial and ego's that need the myth.

Hey Brian, more bad news, I was a DI and my last name is Hartmann! I know it sounds like a put on, but it is true.

I shoot the 1911 well enough to have been qualified an expert pistol shot in the Corps.

And Brian, honest critique is not over generalizing.

It is sad that you have not mastered the SIG, world wide many have. But I do understand that the 1911 is simple to shoot.

But remember the Sykes and Fairbairn recommended pinning the safety so as to not forget to release it in combat.

Remember, the most common FTF in any weapon with a safety is FAILURE TO RELEASE SAFETY!

Good luck and Happy New Year

Fred

Gewehr98
January 1, 2003, 02:38 PM
In a post bashing the 1911.

Father-in-law's a retired Marine Master Sergeant. Couldn't hear enough good things about Ol' Slabsides from his two tours in Vietnam. What's changed among the world of Gyrenes? Has the Hicap WunderNine brainwashing penetrated that far into Uncle Sam's Misguided Children?

chieftain
January 1, 2003, 05:23 PM
Gewehr98 states:

Kinda funny that "Semper Fi" would show up...
In a post bashing the 1911.

Father-in-law's a retired Marine Master Sergeant. Couldn't hear enough good things about Ol' Slabsides from his two tours in Vietnam. What's changed among the world of Gyrenes? Has the Hicap WunderNine brainwashing penetrated that far into Uncle Sam's Misguided Children?


__________________


hey G98 whats the funny part. Is any one disagreeing with you, with personal observation, fact and honest critique, bashing?

What outfit was your Father-in-law in?

In my two tours I was primarily 3rd Marine Division. Mostly with 3rd Marines. I was with 1/9 the first time I got hit though. Was attached to 23rd at Khe Sahn. and the first time I was attached to the 5th Marines was at Hue. Spent some time with the 4th Marines also.

I never heard anything change in the world of Gyrenes. hell there are some that think we should be still using the 1903! Good rifle, got one, but I think the M14 is a much better weapon. Hell the M1 is better than the 03. By the way I have one of each of them. I guess you would consider that nuts too!, wanting radical stuff like a 8 round enbloc clip or a "wonder 20" holding 20 rounds in the magazine with a wimp load like the 7.62 NATO instead of 30-06!

Well you probably call that brainwashing too!

Wanting improved weapons is now considered brainwashing? Instead of F-18's we should be wishing for F4U Corsairs instead? The AD-1s' were great, except to many got shot down. the F-4 were better. the New F-18's are even better.

I don't think the M16 is an improvement over the M14 the two advantages are increased Ammo load, and less recoil. Both are good reasons, but because it is not as reliable as the M14 it should not be used until equal or improved reliability can be delivered. We are also getting repeated reports of the new Heavy round not being as effective as the older 55gr bullet. Or is that brain washing too, just like my combat experience?

Come on, argue with logic and facts, not slander and inuendo.

Fred

railroader
January 1, 2003, 05:59 PM
Are we getting just a little sidetracked?:confused: Mark

Gewehr98
January 1, 2003, 07:45 PM
Let me ask you the other side of the coin, why do you put a religious belief in an out dated design that everyone needs custom work to keep it going?

Never needed custom work on the 4 Norinco 1911's that I bought in 1992. They all fed 230gr ball ammo just fine, nary a hiccup. I still have one of them. And these guns are reverse-engineered from leftover WWII USGI guns. Hmm.

If you should ever need your 1911, I hope and pray, yours shows up.

Mine showed up. During DESERT SHIELD/DESERT STORM, my issue gun as aircrew was a vintage M1911A1. The Beretta M-9 (92 in civilian clothing) was in short supply. The SiG M-11 wasn't readily available, either. Were I to be forced down in a less-than-friendly area of the sandbox, I would not have felt undergunned in the pistol department. I would've preferred a belt-fed, but unfortunately they don't pack well in a survival vest.

Progress isn't a bad thing. I volunteered to help the SP's at the gate on September 11th. They issued me an FN-made M16A2. I wish I could've had my own personal M14NM, or even 1903A3 or 1903A4, but I realize that ease of use, low recoil, and carrying 120 rounds that weigh relatively little have definite military value. Kind of the gravel belly vs. the spray-and-pray crowd argument. I've talked to Dick Culver several times about the M14 vs. M16 debacle. He makes very valid arguments.

What I find odd is that folks want a .45 ACP-sized gun chambered in 9mm. The Beretta 92 does that, and carries at least 10 rounds of the stuff, to boot!

Austin Hemphill
January 2, 2003, 12:59 AM
10ring, if it is not chambering the rounds, check the extractor. It it is too tight and encounters a large case head it will not allow the round to completly chamber. I have noticed this in some other 1911s in 9mm as well as some 45s. As for the recoil spring, if it feeds the round into the chamber consistantly, then it is probably ok. I have gotten my limited gun to run 100% with a 6# recoil spring. I agree with a previous poster about the titanium firing pin. I had troubles with the one in an earlier limited gun giving me intermittant failures to fire. Pick a steel one up from brownells, they are fairly cheap. Another thing to try is to make sure that the headspace in the chamber is good. If it is excessive the round will headspace on the extractor alone. This could cause the round to move after being impacted by the firing pin, preventing enough energy being applied to the primer to ignite it. A quick way to check this is to take out the barrel and drop a round in the chamber. If there is a good sized gap from the base of the case and the hood of the barrel, then headspace could be a problem. Most 1911s I have seen have some overlap in this area, but if it looks bad, and a steel firing pin does not improve things, drop SA a call. They will do their best to help you out.

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