AR15 - Any legal way to purchase and leave in AZ?


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dave3006
June 13, 2004, 08:37 AM
Is there any LEGAL way for a CA resident to purchase an AR15 that will be left in storage in Arizona? I know I can't bring it into California and am not suggesting breaking any laws. Is this possible in a legal way?

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Sven
June 13, 2004, 10:57 AM
I know some guys whos friends hold their ARs in Arizona for them - not sure why this would be illegal, as it is illegal to have such a weapon (post-ban, not registered) IN CA...

Telperion
June 13, 2004, 11:11 AM
If you buy a rifle out of state from a FFL, the sale has to be legal as if it were done in your home state. Certainly nobody in Oregon wanted to sell me a lower. :(

Dave Markowitz
June 13, 2004, 11:11 AM
I believe that this would not be legal for you to do, unless you are domiciled part of the year in AZ. The problem is that although a resident of one state may purchase a longarm from an FFL in another state, he may only do so if the sale complies with the laws of the purchasor's domicile. Since as a CA resident you can't buy an AR-15 in CA, you can't buy one in AZ.

If OTH, you are a part-time resident of CA and a part time resident of AZ, you should be able to buy an AR-15 in AZ and leave it there.

Hkmp5sd
June 13, 2004, 01:43 PM
Form a corporation in AZ and have the corporation purchase the AR. It is the same approach some use to get around some of the NFA roadblocks.

Jeff White
June 13, 2004, 02:02 PM
Moving to Legal and Political....
Jeff

dave3006
June 13, 2004, 02:13 PM
Hkmp5Sd, that is a great idea. Do you have to have a physical address to do this? How does a corporation purchase a firearm? Any more details?

Thanks.

sendec
June 13, 2004, 02:44 PM
I'd be very cautious to avoid even the appearance of a straw purchase........

Dbl0Kevin
June 13, 2004, 03:31 PM
I don't know about california, but when NJ passed it's AWB back in 89 one of the stipulations was that the weapon could still be owned if it was stored outside of the state. Not sure how that would work with buying a new one after the ban though. :confused:

Hkmp5sd
June 13, 2004, 04:02 PM
Do you have to have a physical address to do this?

Here is what ATF says, you can interpret it. I would say you have to have some physical location in the state.

ยง 178.29 Out-of-State acquisition of firearms by nonlicensees.
No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport into or receive in the State where the person resides (or if a corporation or other business entity, where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State:

Is a PO box or storage locker enough? I don't know. You may want to contact a lawyer about that.

HERE (http://www.accessincorp.com/corpfaq.htm) is a good explanation on forming corporations.

I don't know the process for a corporation to a firearm from an 01-FFL. When buying a machinegun or other NFA weapon, the corporation's name and address are filled out on the form where the buyer's personal information would normally go. As such, when submitting the forms to ATF, there are no fingerprint cards, photographs or CLEO autograph included.

geekWithA.45
June 13, 2004, 05:12 PM
Should you go the corporate route, there will be taxation and reporting requirements, which are a mild PITA, basically designed to scare off the uninitiated.

Even in the simplest case, you'll have to file corporate taxes (income = 0/expenses = 900/taxes = 0) and hold a yearly board of directors mtg whereing the Chairman of the board (you), the treasurer (you) and the secretary (you) report to the stockholders (you) on the years activities (you bought an AR), and decide to cease or continue operations for another fiscal year. (Of course, you'll want to buy an AR next year too. Or move up to a evil, evil mag fed, autoloading .308, but I digress) The secretary (you) must then carefully record, seal, and store the minutes of the mtg at the designated corporate place (in AZ, presumably right next to your AR. If you can't store your corporate crap safely, how can you store your AR? More to the point, if you can't come up with a trustworthy physical AZ address, it casts the whole "store it in AZ" aspect into doubt)

Make sure that you charter your corporation for "all lawful purposes", of which owning an AR is one hypothetical example. ;)

Incidentally, I'm starting to think that these personal corporations for lawful domestic purposes that aren't necessarilly biz related are the wave of the future.

----------------
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, and I have no idea whether this is actually legal or not, although my guess is that it would be. Unfortunately, that might be for 12 peers to decide, if you go that route.

In fact, if an intelligent, well informed human can't determine what is or isn't lawful, you wind up with a society that er, well, looks like ours. :cuss:
---------------

dave3006
June 13, 2004, 05:49 PM
Thanks guys. The corporate thing sounds too involved. Can you LEGALLY purchase an AR15 from a private party (newspaper advertisement) and then put it in storage before you leave for home in California?

Hkmp5sd
June 13, 2004, 05:57 PM
there will be taxation and reporting requirements, which are a mild PITA, basically designed to scare off the uninitiated.

There are ways around that too. :) You are not required to incorporate in the state where your "offices" are located. You can incorporate in any state. Delaware is considered one of the best because a corporation not having a business in Delaware doesn't have to pay any state taxes.

Companies such as Access Incorporation Services can then act as your "registered agent" in your state (AZ in this case). Then for a fee of $99/yr, they handle the paperwork required by the state. You don't have to do anything.

You might also want to consider building an almost-AR using the FAB-10 receiver, which is legal in CA. Here is one made by El Rojo:
http://home.bak.rr.com/elrojo14/pictures/cab10b.JPG

whm1974
June 13, 2004, 10:13 PM
I don't know about california, but when NJ passed it's AWB back in 89 one of the stipulations was that the weapon could still be owned if it was stored outside of the state. Not sure how that would work with buying a new one after the ban though.

Like a state can say what you can or can not own outside that state anyway. Not sure about federal laws however.

-Bill

carp killer
June 13, 2004, 11:08 PM
Is there any LEGAL way for a CA resident to purchase an AR15 that will be left in storage in Arizona? I know I can't bring it into California and am not suggesting breaking any laws. Is this possible in a legal way?

Establish residency in AZ. If you have a friend/relative who has a house/apt. use there address and get an AZ ID.

Dbl0Kevin
June 13, 2004, 11:44 PM
What the heck is a FAB-10?? Looks like a regular AR to me. :confused:

Dbl0Kevin
June 14, 2004, 12:54 AM
Never mind I looked it up. I remember hearing about that concept before but can't help thinking it's gotta be a MAJOR pain in the butt to lift up the whole upper everytime you wanna reload. :what:

MaceWindu
June 18, 2004, 01:49 AM
Nah, I don't want a suedo AR. if I want a clip fed rifle I will buy a Garand. Plus, how long does it take to reload?

http://img62.photobucket.com/albums/v188/Triggerman/LdFrntCant001.bmp

Can you say MAGAZINE FED..:neener:

http://img62.photobucket.com/albums/v188/Triggerman/LdRearCant001.bmp


Its either the real McCoy or NADA!!!

MaceWindu

bshepherd
June 18, 2004, 12:31 PM
Heck just get a PO box or use a friends place and get an AZ ID or DL. Then go buy what you want and store it, come visit it and shoot it on a regular basis. Heck you can even get resident hunting and fishing licenses then. Have fun ; )

armoredman
June 18, 2004, 12:58 PM
bshepard, negative. I worked in a couple of gunshop/ranges here in AZ. You MUST have an AZDL with a PERMANENT address - a PO box is specifically disallowed by ATFE. Also, you must answer state of residency on the 4473, and AZ is it to buy here - meaning according to ARS, you must have your Domicile, meaning permanant home here, even if you work or live temporarily out of state. Now, the snow birds get away with it, but they live here half the year, too. Remember, this is to purchase in a gun shop/FFL holder.
If someone who is a legal resident of AZ, and not a prohibited possessor, purchased an AR15, with thier own money, with the purpose of gifting or selling it to you at a later date, when it is 100% legal to do so, would not be illegal, as private transfers are certainly legal here, and the state does NOT get involved like Cali - AZ doesn't care, as long as you ain't violatin' da law! Do NOT attempt to take it across state lines into Cali - that's Fed time. Do not attempt to make a straw purchase through a legal resident, as that is Club Fed, as well.

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