[christophera]

Anyone know of some good .38+p's for a 4 incher? Getting a 686 and I'm too much of a wuss to go for the .357.:( I'm not seeing much from bouncing around other forums so maybe I should just grow a pair and use the mags.

[RON in PA]

Why are you gettiing the .357 to begin with? Why not a dedicated .38 like a model10/64 or a 15/67? The L-frame 686 is a great revolver though, esp. the DA trigger which was developed by S&W to be an improvement over their already excellent DA trigger in the K-frames. If you are reticent about shooting the full house .357 loads don't be, the L-frames handle them well.

As far as a 38+P load I'd recommend the 158 grain LSWCHP by either Remington or Winchester. This load (known as the FBI load) is one of the few loads that almost everyone says good things about. From a 4" barrel expect both good penetration and good expansion.

[Jim March]

Well any ammo that works well in a 2" 38spl will perform right nice in a 4" tube, so that makes it easy: go look at what people are recommending for snubbies.

The classic lead hollowpoints Ron is talking about are one of the top 3 or 4 38+Ps available. Soon Bufallo Bore will have a hotter flavor of the same concept that will "bridge the gap" between 38+P and 357 performance. The loads Ron mentions will pull about 900fps in your gun, ballpark...BB's flavor is supposed to pull 1,000fps from a 2" tube so figure AT LEAST 1,050 in your gun, maybe 1,100. Niiiice.

The other 38+P that's brand new we're paying attention to is the 135grain Gold Dot. Specs look GREAT, as does Speer's initial performance data and expansion tests.

Speer's older 125grain 38+P wasn't bad from a 2", slightly iffy in the expansion dept. (like almost anything in a 2") but better than most. From your 4" tube it'll work great. Ditto the Winchester 130grain Supreme 38+P with it's huge JHP cavity.

GOOD 38+Ps will do their part if you do yours. But get good stuff; a LOT of 38 "combat ammo" ain't worth messing with.

[Marshall]

I have a 4" Model 13 S&W .357 that I shoot 130gr +P Winchester SXT out of in .38sp and Remington Golden Saber 125gr +P .38sp. Coming out of the 4" Smith they get the job done. I also shoot them out of my Model 60 2" J Frame. Granted I have .357 loads for both guns but I feel completely comfortable using the above .38's. I've held off on the Gold Dots in .38sp until I can find them in the newer 135gr locally.

[christophera]

Why are you gettiing the .357 to begin with? Why not a dedicated .38 like a model10/64 or a 15/67?

The 686 is just for versatility and because I like it. Not to mention it's real nice to have all that weight for plinkin'.

Proload had a good round in .357 but the problem was the hollow point (Gold Dot) was so wide that if your cylinders got a little gummed up from firing, the rounds wouldn't seat all the way in to the cylinder. I don't remember the specs but it was a 125 grainer traveling at 9mm speeds. In essence, 9mm ballistics. That's what I'm looking for. I'm just not finding it so I'm thinking of going with .38's.

[ChristopherG]

the hollow point (Gold Dot) was so wide that if your cylinders got a little gummed up from firing, the rounds wouldn't seat all the way in to the cylinder

Sorry, that just doesn't sound right. Had you shot 38s prior to the 357s? That creates a little ring of crud at the line marking the end of the shorter .38 cases, and can create exactly the problem you describe. The solution is just to clean the cylindes out well after shooting 38s, if you want to fit 357s in there.

If you're after 9mm ballistics, Remington makes a popular load with their 125 gr. 'Golden Saber' Brass Jacketed Hollow point going 1220 or so, IIRC. A popular reduced-power 357 load. Were I using that light a bullet, I'd prefer the Pro-loads, myself.

Have you tried any Mag loads with heavier bullets? I find they can be less brutal than TV and movies would have us believe; I like the feel of 158s better than 125s, personally--a bit more thump and less crack.

[Jim March]

What Christophera is saying DOES make sense.

Proload had a "tactical lite 357" loaded milder than standard 357, and using a Gold Dot variant with a bigger JHP cavity - yet it was NOT the same slug as the 38+P type. My understanding is that this was a limited-production projectile, hard to find, and currently not being produced anymore. It may indeed have been "abnormally fat".

I think I'd either go with a very good 38+P, or go with a 158grain Gold Dot meant to pull about 1,250fps from a 4" barrel. This is a common production slug loaded just about the same way by Speer, Proload, Black Hills and Georgia Arms. In a 686 or similar-heft GP100, it'll be a very controllable and effective round, something you might want to try out before you dismiss 357s completely.

But if you do go 38+P, then by all means the 135 Gold Dot makes sense. In the pictures Speer published of a fully expanded round from a 2" barrel, the expansion was nice but it wasn't "bottomed it", it was obvious it could go at LEAST another 100fps without starting to shrink back down and I'd bet on more like another 150 to 200fps before it started coming unglued. Which means in a 4" or even 6" barrel it oughta do just fine.

And in a 686, it'll be VERY controllable and should still be subsonic (barely) in a 4" tube for less noise. Damn fine slug :).

[Bullet]

I agree with Jim March. Here is a link to Speer.

http://www.speer-bullets.com/default.asp?...

Then click on Reloading - Reloading Data.

[ChristopherG]

I agree with Jim March on most things, too; but I shot a number of the Proload tactical light loads (which are still available: http://www.proload.com:80/shoppingcart/product.asp?dept%5Fid=1&sku=PL357T1 ), and it appears to be a standard 125 gr GDHP.

I don't know how these, in themselves, could possibly gum up cylinders.

[tbeb]

I like the .38 special +P 158 gr. lead hollowpoint. I don't think brand matters that much so use CCI, Federal, Remington, or Winchester. Corbon made a .38 special +P+ 158 gr. lead hollowpoint that is 150 feet per second faster. It is discontinued but I see it every once in a while.
A .357 magnum round which doesn't recoil any more than the above +P is the Winchester 110 gr. JHP. Winchester says it's velocity is 1290, but they don't say from what barrel length. I know it does about 1175 from a short barrel, 2"-2 1/2". (My favorite .357 magnum load is the Winchester Silvertip 145 gr. JHP.)

[revolvergeek]

I have a few boxes of the ProLoad .357 mag Tactical Lite, and it uses the 125 GDHP bullet that was designed for the .38spl +P load. They expand VERY violently in the informal testing that I have done, and shoot very nicely in my 3 inch SW 13. The muzzle flash is pretty pronounced/annoying out of my 640-1, so I have stuck with the Hyrdashok 147gr 38 +P+ in it. I really like this +P+ Hydrashok and generally load my SW 67 4 inch with it also.

[Jim March]

Huh. I thought the Proload lite 125 357s were a special blend (can't remember where I read it...) but I can see how taking the one meant for 38+P use might work if "overdriven" some. Gold Dots hang together when going faster than intended fairly well, usually.

Anyways. I literally can't recall where I read that Proload had a special run of projectiles for the lite 357. I could very well be wrong :).

[christophera]

I shoot primarily .38's out of my magnums. The point I was trying to make about the Proloads was the fact that no matter how hard/long I tried cleaning the cylinders, I would still have a little bit of carbon that I can't get out that the Proloads would hang up on. I'll try another box to see if I had a strange batch.

Those Hydra 147's sound pretty slick too.

[BluesBear]

I'm waiting for the heavy bullet to become available. Should be great for 4"-6" tubes.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=819680

[only1asterisk]

For a person in your situation, the Proload would be the SD round i would recommend. After prolonged shooting with 38 Spec's sometimes 357's will be hard to seat. Scrub that crud out! Get a chamber brush and go to town. There are other light .357 loads you can use instead of 38's to keep it from getting so nasty.



David

[Stainz]

I chrono-ed the Federal #R38S12 158gr LHPSWC .38 Special +P rated ammo my dealer special ordered for me last month (~$18/50) to find:

2" M10 834 fps SD = +/- 5 fps
3" M65 912 fps SD = +/- 16 fps
6" M66 994 fps SD = +/- 18 fps

That is my 'new' SD .38 load. If you use it in a M10, check the serial number with S&W to insure it is +P rated. Now, when those 135gr GDJHP's become locally available, I'll try them. Until such time, I feel properly protected.

Stainz

PS Winchester still makes them, too.

[christophera]

Jim was totally correct about the Proloads. The box I bought today has a standard looking bullet which is completely different then the batch I got about a year and half ago. The ones I have now should not have the same problem and I expect them to be fine. Just need to go shoot them.:D

[birdman]

I don't know how effective it is but I chronoed some Corbon 110's in my Model 10 at 1290 fps. That's definitely moving fast enough to expand a good JHP.

[Jim March]

The Corbon 110 and 125 38+Ps are so bloody hot I characterize them more as 357s than 38s :scrutiny:. But in a gun like the 686 or similar, sure, they make sense too.

[Penforhire]

Those Win SXT's are my favorite 38 Spec +p's right now (in a 4" 686+). I like their point-of-aim and modest recoil. That's what I keep loaded in the safe. But I shoot more of the boomers (Corbon 357 Mag 125 grain) and crappy 38 Spec target loads than 38 +p.

[bpisler]

I like the black hills 125gr +P 38spl
It's the 38spl gold dot loaded to 1070fps from a 4" barrel.I've shot these from a M 60-7 and a 38-2 with no visable signs of overpressure.I don't think you can go wrong with the 158gr +P LSWCHP from win/fed/rem.

[RWK]

George Arms sells a 125-grain, +P, Gold Dot in .38 Special that provides 1000 FPS – 15 feet from the muzzle! I believe that would be an excellent defensive load for you new Smith, which should be a GREAT revolver.

Regards.