[Turk]

I'm looking for a 45 for a CCW I want compactness plus light weight. I'm down to two. The Smith CS45 and the Glock 36 can't believe I'm considering a Glock but that's another story.

Your thoughts please.

Have a good day and remember to pray for our troops.

Turk

[steelhead]

It was down between the CS45 and the MilPro PT145 and I went with the Taurus and have not regretted it. I liked the sights on the Taurus more and having 10+1 over 6+1 was very appealing. However, the CS45 may end up in my safe one day as well. I have shot a CS45 and is not bad on recoil and is very controllable.

Glocks don't appeal to me so I would go with the Smith but I have not heard any bad things about the G36.

Sorry I couldn't give more but both of those choices are sound and it really comes down to just trigger and look preferences.

[denfoote]

I'm an ex PT-145 owner who sold his upon it's return for a cracked frame, bought a Glock 36, and has not looked back since!! :D

[Marko Kloos]

The Glock 36 is probably the most reliable subcompact .45 you can buy. It's lightweight, very slim, tough as nails, and easy to tote. The trigger pull is consistent, and it's more accurate than the Smith as well. I'd take it over the CS45 any day of the week.

[Baba Louie]

Way back when I too was on a quest for the "just right" compact .45, pre CS-45 and G-36, I bought both the S&W 457 and a Glock 30.
Hmmmm.
Consistent spongieness/crick or Long pull/short pull?
Thick grip, narrow grip?
11 v. 8 rds?
Accuracy?
I'm a better shot with the G-30 for quick point shooting as the 457 points low in my hand forcing me to bring the front sight up a tad each time (I know, you're supposed to use the sights all the time)... but the G-30 is like my 1911's w/ arched mainspring housing in that it points closer to P.O.A./P.O.I. in my hand. From a rested position, both are equally adept at keeping the group about the same (fist size at 10 yds).
YMMV
If I were a-questing today I'd probably end up with both the CS45 and the G-36 in my possession.
So I'd say shoot them both, then buy whichever one of them you like better before buying the other :D
Before I bought the 457 and 30, my compact .45 was either a Colt Commander or a PT945. Something about cocked and locked that's just so... right.
I love a good quest.

[RWK]

Turk,

I do not like Glocks very much; despite their renowned quality, durability and reliability, the two I own -- a G36 and a G23C -- simply do not measure up to MY accuracy standards in MY hands.

That said, the Glock 36 is an excellent .45 ACP concealed carry weapon. It provides 6+1 loading, handles +Ps with no problem, and EASILY conceals (I even use an ankle holster with excellent success, when I am unable carry “strong side”). My “bottom line” is simple: the G36 is a great deal like other Glocks in terms of trigger feel, accuracy, durability, reliability, and so forth. Further, it is EXTREMELY concealable -- especially for a “non-mouse gun” accommodating seven rounds of a proven, potent cartridge.

[Jammer Six]

I do not like Glocks very much; despite their renowned quality, durability and reliability, the two I own -- a G36 and a G23C -- simply do not measure up to MY accuracy standards in MY hands.


I agree.

The Glocks are lighter, and that lightweight comes at a price.

The price is that it's easier to "limp wrist" a Glock than it is a 1911- they need a firmer grip to function.

Since being shot can result in a limp wrist, if that happens to me, I want the weapon in my hand to function whether my wrist is limp or strong.

Milspecs do, Glocks don't.

Your millage may vary.

[telewinz]

Star PD..........Just got one to go along with my Colt officers model. I love them both but at 24oz and 6 rounds the PD is a great choice for CCW. Used excellent they can be had for $250-350. Magazines can still be had but other parts are hard to come by.

[cerberus]

The Kimber Ultra Carry II The Ultra Carry is the bottom one

http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2376830

[jc2]

The local gunshops seem to get back a lot of barely used G36. A lot of folks buy it, shoot it and decide it's not for them. YMMV, but you might to shoot a couple of hundred rounds of ammo before you commit your money. They definitely don't seem to be for everybody (and FWIW, watching several boards, the G36 overall seems to have more functioning/reliability than Glocks in general--it just doesn't seem to consistently meet the standards most people have set for Glocks).

[borodin]

only because I wanted another pistol and my wife would kill me if I didnt sell one. The G36 was a GREAT package for me. I could carry it in the waistband, on the hip or in an ankle rig, even with jeans. No probs and the finish is VERY hard to beat.


I have also owned the PT-145 Taurus which was mentioned before. The frame cracks were LONG ago and they have a new polymer formula now. It was an excellent gun as well and easy to field strip ( as easy as a Glock ) and I had the stainless slide so it looked great. The ONLY negative was the long DAO trigger but many Keltec owners would probably like that or at least be used to it.

I looked at the CS45 also, but i never liked the look of it and S&W seems overpriced to me.

My two cents.

[halvey]

I see a lot of used ones as well. I'm not really into Glocks, but they seem nice.

[twowheel]

I purchased a Kimber Compact Stainless. I had a Colt Officer's model that I liked but not as much as the Kimber. The Kimber has a 4" barrel but it has the shorter, Officer's length, grip. The grip is the hardest part to conceal, anyway. Basically, the Kimber Compact Stainless is an Officer's model with a 4" barrel and substantially better recoil spring mechanism. Among the holsters I have for it is a Grip Clip to tuck the gun into my pants without the need for the space taken by a holster. Oh, the Kimber has a MUCH better trigger and groups much better than the Officer's model ever did.

[Doug S]

Please forgive me for what I’m about to say, but I just can’t help myself. Recently I decided that I wanted my first 45acp. I had pretty much decided on a Springfield GI model, but none of the local shops had one. I did find one shop that had a few on back order & I am still waiting for them to give me a call. In the meantime I went to a local hardware store a few miles from my home that has a nice gun section. Sitting in their case was a “cheap” Bersa Thunder 45 Ultra Compact. Not ones usual first choice in pistols I’m sure. Being a bit impulsive & having had a previous good experience with a Bersa 380 I decided to give it a try for only $299. I took it to the range over the weekend, & put 100 rounds (230 & 185 grain fmj) & the pistol was 100%. Recoil was mild, & the pistol was quite accurate at 25 yards. I know this isn’t on your short list, but I just couldn’t pass up an opportunity to express my satisfaction with this economical & so far reliable little CCW pistol.

[hnm201]

I can heartily agree with Doug S's assessment of the Bersa Thunder 45. You simply can't wrong with it if you like the DA/SA action. Bersa makes good products. Unfortunately I wouldn't like the sights for a carry gun, and aftermarket sight options and holster options are at best limited.

My carry 45, which my mostly my daily carry these days, is a Glock 36.

It weighs 29.5oz loaded.

I can carry it on my ankle.
I can carry it in my pocket.
I can carry it in my dorkpack.
I can easily carry it in in my waistband all day.

http://dombosco.home.insightbb.com/mrsoftyg36.jpg

I don't worry about scratching it up or it getting rusty. It's simply an appliance and I've found it to be very reliable with everything that i've fed it. I'm more accurate with it than I am with any other pistol that I own, save the Glock 30.

If you have a trouble with limpwristng pistols I recommend that you buy an exercise ball or two and keep them in your car and by the couch for when you're watching TV. Use them consistently for two weeks and you will be amazed at the difference.

[Jammer Six]

If you have a trouble with limpwristng pistols I recommend that you buy an exercise ball or two and keep them in your car and by the couch for when you're watching TV.

Just out of curiosity, how does one use an exercise ball to patch a bullet wound?

I prefer a weapon that will function regardless of my condition, because no one can predict the condition you'll be in when you need it.

[hnm201]

Jammer Six, despite your experience to the contrary, I've yet to fire 1911 milspec 1911 that won't jam if limpwristed. If limpwristing followup shots were my concern, I'd get a revolver. YMMV.

[Jammer Six]

Jammer Six, despite your experience to the contrary, I've yet to fire 1911 milspec 1911 that won't jam if limpwristed.

I have yet to fire a milspec that will.

I have trouble with Glocks, and small 1911's, but not milspecs. I can intentionally limp wrist both my 1911's, and fire round after round. It's why I chose a milspec, and why I stick to government models.

How does working out with a ball help a revolver?

[hnm201]

How does working out with a ball help a revolver?

I didn't say that working out with a exercise ball helped with a revolver, though I don't see how it could hurt. Maybe it would help you control recoil enough to improve your followup shots under rapid fire. Exercising your grip is also good for your heart, per American Heart Association. There are worse things you could with time spent sitting in traffic or watching TV.

I own a Springfield Milspec that shoots 100% for me but will have feeding problems if shot by someone who doesn't have a firm grip. Ditto for my Colt 70 series (granted, it's not a milspec, but it's closer than most modern non-colt 1911s).

When next I'm at the range I am going to intentionally limpwrist my G36 and see what kind of results I get. I'd expect there to be some failtures but now that the gun is well broken in it might be more tolerant than one would expect.

[mini14jac]

I had a S&W 457 for a while and really liked the accuracy.
My wife was surprised at how easy it was to shoot.
Just too bulky for IWB carry for me.

Then I tried a Colt Defender.
Much easier to conceal.
But, it had more recoil, and I've never gotten used to cocked-n-locked carry.

I would have loved a Glock 30 but the grip felt too wide in my hand, I thought it would be more difficult to conceal.

I'm working with a Glock 36 now.
Easier to shoot than the Defender, and possibly more accurate.
I'm waiting on my Watch Six holster to show up, but I think it will make a decent carry gun.
I've been a fan of Glock triggers for years, and it's nice to have another one.

My only gripe was the mag base pinching my finger.
Glock could fix this if they wanted.
For $10 each, Glockmeister can fix you up with Plus 0 extensions that look cooler, and take care of the pinching problem.

[wildehond]

Small, light, accurate, spares and ammo everywhere and RELIABLE! I shall choose the the G36 evertime. I use a Gov model myself, but will have no problems carrying a G36. \

wildehond

[rcm]

I have a nice SS Colt officers .45 I would like to sell for $500.00. This comes with Milt Sparks IWB holster.

[sctman800]

I almost bought the S&W CS45 myself but then I saw a 4513TSW and found it fit my hand better. Wonderful gun, and my first auto. After I quit limpwristing and polished the feed ramp a little it has never missed a beat. Jim.

[hnm201]

You mean that lightweight .45s other than Glocks are subject to malfunctions caused by limp wristing? :neener:

[R.H. Lee]

Opinions. My opinion is that effective CCW is more a function of width/bulkiness of the pistol than of barrel length. A 1911A1 Milspec is narrower than a G36, no?

Nothing, nothing points better than a full size 1911, IMHO :)

[hnm201]

RileyMC - I used to think that but I tried a Milt Sparks Watch 6 with either a Springfield Milspec Govt model or a Springer Loaded Lightweight Government Model. I carried a full size government model iwb at 3:30 or 4:00 under an untucked but not hugely oversized flannel shirt ever day for two months. It damn near killed me. It wasn't the weight - it was the position. If I carry anyting behind the hip and in the waist band my legs go numb when their not shooting pain. I finally figured out that I have to carry in front of the hip and for me the full size government model wasn't going to work for that. So I opted for the shorter Glock 36 in a straight drop iwb holster.

I think those 4513TSWs are fine weapons but I am trying to get away from the DAO or DA/SA pull and go with either single action or glock safe-action.

[Jammer Six]

I didn't say that working out with a exercise ball helped with a revolver, though I don't see how it could hurt.

My point was that first you said to use an excercise ball, and when I pointed out that you could be shot, resulting in a limp wrist, you switched to saying you had troubles with 1911's, and decided that the answer to a limp wrist was a revolver, not an exercise ball.

There's no question that exercise is good for you, in many ways. That's not what we're talking about.

Limp wristing may happen to you, regardless of your preparation, because you can get shot.

I use a 1911 because I've never had a government model fail due to limp wristing, and I have had limp wrist problems with small 1911's , glocks, and Sig's.

If you've had trouble with a full size milspec due to limp wristing, that pleases me.

It means I've finally found someone with a wrist weaker than mine.

I suppose that also would mean that yes, you should be using a ball for exercise.

[22/22mag]

The Glock would be my first choice easy simple gun no safety no DA/SA always the same trigger pull.
Para Warthog second DA/SA, 24oz empty.10+1 .45 size of a G27.

Warthog top
Glock bottom

[hnm201]

If you've had trouble with a full size milspec due to limp wristing, that pleases me.

It means I've finally found someone with a wrist weaker than mine.


I think this means that you should probably get out of the house more ;)

But hey, if I can make just one person's day a little brighter by posting on THR, then I am doing good work.

My point was that first you said to use an exercise ball, and when I pointed out that you could be shot, resulting in a limp wrist, you switched to saying you had troubles with 1911's, and decided that the answer to a limp wrist was a revolver, not an exercise ball.

We must not be speaking each other's language.

My point of bringing up a revolver was that I think, perhaps wrongly, that *any* semi-automatic pistol can suffer malfunctions caused by limp-wristing. If, when choosing a sidearm for personal protection, *eliminating* (as opposed to "minimizing") the chances of a malfunction caused by limp-wristing were to be made a priority, I would have to choose a revolver as a sidearm and not consider semi-automatic pistols, milspec or otherwise.

Limp-wristing may happen to you, regardless of your preparation, because you can get shot.

A limp wrist is only one of the many possible ill effects that you may suffer upon being shot with a firearm.

If, being shot, your wrist was limp enough to cause a feeding or ejection malfunction with a Glock or other lightweight .45 and thereby prevent a follow up shot, would your grip be placed well enough to engage the grip safety if you were shooting a 1911 milspec? Probably yes, but possibly no.

Another possible occurrence in a shooting scenario, one that may occur whether you've been shot or not, is that you may fail, despite your training, to disengage the 1911's thumb safety. Score one for the Glock 36.

There are many eventualities that may occur in a gun fight, or a gun vs. knife/fist/other weapon scenario. As I am not a "professional" and I don't make any pretense about being as well prepared as I possibly could be. However, the training I have accomplished with the firearms does increase my chances of surviving a gunfight. Admittedly I am not prepared for every eventuality. However, I am prepared to improvise and I am willing to de-prioritize the possibility of gun-shot-wound-induced-limp-wristing on my preparation list in order to carry a gun that meets other priorities. I guess that what is underlying this discussion is the simple fact that handguns are usually the least desirous type of firearm to use for self-defense. Any handgun is a compromise of firepower and ergonomics and convenience. Even I can't limp wrist a twelve gauge.

But we're getting way off topic here. I believe turk was originally talking about a choice between two compact .45s, and didn't mention any consideration of 1911 milspecs or revolvers.

[MICHAEL T]

1911A1 full size or commander. Nothing else comes close.

[Turk]

RileyMc
Your post

"Nothing, nothing points better than a full size 1911, IMHO"

I took my 70 series out a couple nights ago and popped of a couple hundred rounds and I have to agree a 1911 does point well but in my opinion not as well as my Hi-Power.

Thanks for your opinions. My current CCW is Kel-tec 380 that you can carry all day and not notice you have in your pocket. My current what I call my hi threat gun is a Smith 4013.

But I do want a 45 ACP gun. CS 45 are a little hard to come by in my area but plenty of Glocks so I have had a chance to at least hold the Smith.

Question I've looked at the spec's of both the CS45 and the Glock 36 but the Smith doesn't list the width of the slide. Anyone know is it narrower than the Glock? Also what about the grip I assume the Smith is narrower?

Thanks again,

Turk

[geekWithA.45]

Take a look @ the sig P145 before you choose. It might steal your heart.

[hnm201]

I took my G36 to the range yesterday and shot "cocktail" mags containing

230gr federal hydroshocks +P
200gr Corbon +P
230gr CCI Blazer
185gr Taurus HEX
230gr Fiocchi FMJ
185gr Golden Saber


I shot about 200 rounds total, ~90 rounds or so being mags of "straight" fiocchi 230 gr FMJ.

I tried to purposefully limpwrist the gun. I couldn't get the gun to malfunction.

Maybe, like a 1911 milspec, it will continue to function despite my condition? :D

[toocool]

For some reason I don't have the option to quote; replying to Jammer's comments about limp-wristing, I have several Glocks and have tried to induce malfunctions by limp wristing, and it can't be done. No matter what I try to do to make my Glocks malfunction, they don't . They just keep on cooking. So I'm perfectly happy with any Glock, especially the G36.

[ColoradoPacker]

Here is another vote for Kimber Ultra Carry 3" 1911, but my 4" Compact CDP is a close 2nd.

The UC fits my ankle, coat pocket, fanny pack, IWB, etc...

I recently sold my Taurus PT145 - it was a decent pistol, but I needed money for vacation with kids to disneyland and I had three 1911's I couldn't part with... :banghead:

[mini14jac]

My daughters, and my wife always seemed to be able to limp wrist my G19 and G23, but my mother-in-law just shot my G36 with no problem at all.

My Milt Sparks Watch Six holster finally arrived.
I've worn the gun several days, all day, under a light Hawaiin shirt.
I'm surprised how comfortable it is.
Maybe because of the hammerless design, the gun seems to dig into my waist much less than my Colt Defender did.

The gun is much easier to shoot than the Colt was.
But, as always, your mileage may vary.

[Skirmisher]

Ditto on the Kimber Ultra Carry II. Got mine broken in and it is so accurate! Shoots as good my Kimber Custom Target which takes out the ten ring every time. My grandson is just now learning to shoot a pistol and is having a hard time with a 9mm DAO. He tried both of my .45's and made practically one-holed shots. I think I know what his next pistol will be!:D

[DonGlock26]

Check out the Sig P245. It's a compact version of the P220. The grip is short, so try before you buy it. It is as accurate as it's big brother and reliable. The recoil is not bad at all. I've shot a G-36 and found it to recoil quite a bit. FWIW

[jercamp45]

The one I have setled on is a Colt CCO...but the Kimber Compact CDP is was also on my list....I like the feel of the 1911, the shorted grip for concealment, commander length slide of the CCO and the light wight allow frame.
I carried a LW Officer's model for years and owned two steel Officer's...never had a problem with them.
Owned two Glock 30's...and felt they were too fat for my needs. One actually had alot of malfunctions with Winchester Ranger JHP! I tried the G36 at a rental range...and whereas it worked and shot ok...the recoil did seem to be more than my LW Officer's. And it never quite fit my hand.
I rented a Sig P245 too and was VERY impressed.
Shot a friends S&W 457 and was not impressed.
Shot a Cousins H&K USP Compact(which is was not very compact)...it ws OK but too large for my tastes, and I was not really fond of the trigger.
Alot of my experiments came about when I got a job in Missouri with a cesurity company. MO mandates DAO or DA w/decocker for Security Officer's...so I had to get a new pistola since I could not carry my Government, Commander or Officer's model.
At least I could have a .45!!!!
It came down to a SIG 245 or a Para LDA Companion and I chose the Para because it had the feel of my familiar Officer's model and I had Wilson mags in great abundance.
The Para had minor teethng problems....revolving atound the Para mag..but has proven to be very reliable and extremely accurate pistol. A tad heavy for a CCW piece, but it feels OK in my Milt Sparks Versmax
The Taurus 145, Bersa, Patriot and a few other compacts I have not shot(yet), but I wanted an high quality lifelong friend that could be used as a CCW when the gig was done. I have sen enough reliability challenges with Tauri...I do not want second best when it is my life on the line!
These are my experiences.....and choices. My yours work for you!
Jercamp45

[spartacus2002]

Shoot a buddy's G36 before you buy.

I owned one. Accurate, reliable, tough. Great engineering, easy takedown.

Only one problem: kicked like a MUTHA. I developed a terrible flinch, and actually lost confidence in it because it was so uncomfortable to shoot.

I sold it and got a fullsize 1911 and never looked back. But, I'm scrawny and I can carry a 1911 IWB all day without being uncomfortable or printing. A good holster and strong belt make all the difference.

[Drakejake]

Para Ordnance P12-45, stainless, single action, 12 round mag. All steel and heavy, but compact, accurate, 13 rounds of .45.

Drakejake

[Lennyjoe]

Kimber Pro Carry II. 4" 1911 with night sights.

My 1st .45 and boy do I love it. :D

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid107/p3dbfa2107cd50066b4251c0a3762c9f4/f95f1625.jpg

[jetman]

I had and sold both a CS9 and a CS45 and was underwhelmed. I tried a Glock and they were worse (too me). I've ended up in the 1911 camp myself for a carry .45 after Ohio latest CCW bill passing. I have a Kimber Tactical Ultra II (3") and a Wilson SDS (4") for my .45 carry weapon. In the hotter & harder to hide months, I carry my PM9 but still would feel MUCH safer with my Kimber. All are very easily concealable in a quality IWB holster.

[Lobotomy Boy]

I rented a G36 the other day and put 100 rounds through it. I also shot my G21 and a buddies G26 and G19 for comparison. Shooting WWB hardball the gun kicked like an anemic pug puppy. I hardly noticed it (but then I enjoy shooting .357 Magnum rounds in my Taurus 605). I also found it to be dead-nuts accurate.

I had been toying with the idea of a Para Carry, just because it is such a danged handsome gun, but after shooting the Glock and researching the Para, I came to my senses. Why dick around with finding the right spring and magazine combo for a 3-inch 1911 and then deal with questionable reliability when I can get an accurate, fun-to-shoot, stone-reliable gun that I know fits my hand well? Right now the Taurus is my carry gun, and will continue to be my primary carry gun, but I intend to purchase a Glock 36 within the next year as an alternate carry gun.