Help me make sure I get the SHOT Show covered


February 12, 2003, 01:35 PM
I am here and ready for the show. I have heard about a bunch of the new stuff and would like you to let me know about anything that you have heard of that I have missed. So post it here and let me know.

These are the guns that I am already going to check on:
S&W compact SW99
S&W SW45
S&W 349(?) (titanium Bodyguard)
S&W 1911
Glock 37 (large single stack)
SIG P221 (double stack P220)
H&K P2000 (saw one, didn't think much)
KelTec .380 and .223
Ronnie Barrett and his situation with the LAPD
I will also be covering a bunch of .50 BMG rifles. Why? I want one.

Anything else you would like to see or know about?

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February 12, 2003, 01:41 PM
Those are my primary interests too. Looking forward to your reports, Jeff! :D :neener:

Bartholomew Roberts
February 12, 2003, 01:47 PM
Knights Armament and ARMS are both unveiling new rail systems for the SOPMOD kit at this show.

Knights has some new quad rail system that free-floats the barrel and gives a single piece top rail solid enough to mount precision optics.

ARMS is releasing slim-line versions of its SIR and some other variations (Rifle length?)

There is also going to be a new M4 upper introduced in 6.8x45(?)mm with Remington introducing the ammo as part of its regular line. This is supposed to be the ideal mid-range caliber between 7.62 and 5.56 that has been oft debated here. Interested to know what modifications were made to the M4 upper and whether it uses existing mags.

February 12, 2003, 02:34 PM
The reason Knight is making the new free floated system is that too many of the other style were causing trouble in Afghanistan. If you put too much pressure down on the vertical foregrip while firing it would actually cause the lugs on the bolt to break while cycling. To much pressure would torque the barrel down to much and the bolt wouldn't want to unlock. The new system would put pressure onto the ring and the receiver instead of the barrel. I got this from a 45 Bravo.

Jeff, I'm looking forward to your report. Wish I could be there again, but your reports are the next best thing to being there.

Chris Rhines
February 12, 2003, 02:41 PM

Anyone have the external ballistics data for this?

- Chris

Bartholomew Roberts
February 12, 2003, 03:09 PM
Correia: Actually, I've been chatting with someone at Knights and naturally he disputes the RAS as the source of that problem. He does have a point in that the bolt failures that are occuring are usually occurring with heavy firing schedules and silencer use. Give the already short gas cycle on the carbines and increased gas pressures from full auto with a can, I bet it is pretty hard on a bolt designed around 20" barrel pressures and heat.

I've asked for some hard data from someone in the know who felt RAS was the issue and he declined to share it, so I'm not sure want to think. I can say I've seen some outlines at Crane for Block II of the SOPMOD program and it specifies both a free floated barrel and an improved bolt design without specifying why it requested either. I know Knight's offered an improved bolt design already and the Army deep-sixed it as not being compatible enough with the existing M16 parts.

Chris: Haven't seen any details myself. The cartridge is supposed to make its debut at the SHOT show and those who know something about it have been holding their cards pretty close - although everyone I've talked to so far seems pretty impressed with it.

February 12, 2003, 03:19 PM
Beretta 92G-SD
Trijicon Tri-Power

February 12, 2003, 03:24 PM
How about those new little Walther .22LR pistols?

Would also be interesting to see how ArmaLite is coming along on their AR-30 (.300 Win Mag and .338 Lapua) guns that look like down-sized versions of the AR-50.

February 12, 2003, 03:26 PM
Check the HK booth and look for the much rumored M4 upper..:)

Jeff White
February 12, 2003, 03:28 PM
The 6.8x45 looks very impressive. I doubt that this will be our new service round for the big Army, but you'll most likely see it in the hands of SOF.


February 12, 2003, 03:38 PM
Also, if you stop by the Barrett booth, ask them if they still plan on importing the Israeli made Tavor..;)

February 12, 2003, 03:40 PM
once again keep a look out for Leitner/Wise and their 22lr AR15s
i have been waiting for them to ship since 1999...

see if you can get some hi rez eye candy of the new Beretta carbine

go bug Armalite about the AR51

i loved that high rez snap you got of the SAW last time:

February 12, 2003, 03:57 PM
Remember to bug S&W again about the agreement, and let them know that people are lining up to buy short barrel fixed sight N-frames ala the Triple Screw if they drop the agreement and build them. (Okay, only I'm lining up to buy them but a trend has to start somewhere, right?)

February 12, 2003, 04:21 PM
You'll have a good discussion if you decide to take a side trip and stop over at the Valtro booth. John Jardine is bringing some late production (always improving) Valtros and some REAL eye-candy and treats out of the Jardines Custom shop.

Mike Miller will be there domonstrating his line of slings in the same booth.

Drop by and have a look. If you are into 1911 type weapons you will be impressed.


February 12, 2003, 04:34 PM
I'll second Schuey2002's desires.

February 12, 2003, 05:18 PM
Can you also ask Benelli if there are plans to import the Nova with the scope mounts like they have in Europe?

February 12, 2003, 05:43 PM
Just out of curiosity, could you pop by CZ and find out what the status of the .40 compact is?

And also if there's a snowball's chance in Hades that we'll see that cute little subcompact that no one seems to know anything about? (There were 2 pics of it floating around the web about a year or so ago.)

February 12, 2003, 07:08 PM
If Freedom Arms is there, could you please ask them about the .500SW? What they think of it, if they will chamber it, if they have something in the pipeline to pass it?


February 12, 2003, 10:43 PM
Jeff, when should we expect a first report?

Just thinking out loud..;)

February 12, 2003, 10:46 PM
Justin, I know about the mini 40 and plan on asking my Oklahoma buddy at CZ about it this year. There is a link to a small photo that I got last year on the 'secret page':
Sorry about the size of the photo but it was an agreement I had to make to be able to see the gun and get the shot. I have the large hi-res shot, but can't show it if I hope to keep getting this info for the site.

I brought you guys the Valtro in last years report, many had not heard of it before, in fact the first time I heard of it was in 2001, so you can count on me going by to see John this year. After all, he does have the best 1911 for the money on the market, IMO.

I wouldn't hold my breath on the AR51. It was not an 'in house' design and the original versions were less than reliable, but I will check. As I stated, I plan on seeing as many .50 BMG and .338 Lap's rifles this year as possible.

I response to the other closed thread, with the new CF card in the camera my son will be able to get shots of all the shotties without sacraficing shots of guns.

I just saw the new question and I am working on getting this years shells loaded tonight. I hope to have the info up sometime before midnight EST Thursday.

February 13, 2003, 12:54 AM
I would like a Head's up what Walther has in the works. Hopefully their own P99 compact, not the SW99.

Matt Sutton
February 13, 2003, 01:40 AM
While you're at it, please ask DSA if they're still working on importing Steyr's handgun line.

February 13, 2003, 02:21 AM

Cool! I look forward to this year's report.
The one from last year had some great info as well as tantalizing tidbits.
Thanks for taking requests for those of us who will only be there in spirit.:cool: :)

February 13, 2003, 02:22 PM
Could you check out Colt and Springfield to see what they are offering?

No need to check out the SW1911. I already got one and posted a review, but could you check and see if the plan on offering it in blued?

February 13, 2003, 02:41 PM
Springfield Armory's future plans for XD models particularly .45!! Thanks

February 13, 2003, 07:46 PM
for what its worth, the new glock 37 is not single stack, and its chambered in a new 45 Glock (essentially a 45 short) same size as the G22.

dunno why really.

February 14, 2003, 10:21 AM
I brought you guys the Valtro in last years report, many had not heard of it before, in fact the first time I heard of it was in 2001, so you can count on me going by to see John this year. After all, he does have the best 1911 for the money on the market, IMO.

Great to hear it! I am sure John will be happy to see ya. I only wish I had gotten to go with him and Mike Miller this year. If I remember right John said he was taking 10 weapons with him to the SHOT Show. (he borrowed my Fiance's to take as he had done some customizing on it and wanted more exmples of that sort of work - like we were gonna tell him NO right? :uhoh: )

Anyway, along with the examples of Valtro's (which are damned impressive) he will also have some wonderful examples of Jardine's Custom work with him. One of them Sven had taken pictures of and posted... but alas those pictures are now out of date! You see John was making some more eye-candy mods to it when we dropped off the pistol mentioned above.

It's really tricked out now.... look at the barrel and guiderod :cool: it's quite unique.

February 14, 2003, 07:19 PM
Sphinx 3000 and ask about the current status of U.S. importer. Thx Jeff!!!

February 14, 2003, 07:33 PM
Has anybody approached you (Jim Scoutten, etc.) about being a reporter for American shooter, etc., (I don't have OLN available in my area :( ). Your reports from the previous gun shows are terrific. Keep up the good work.........signed an envious Tman

February 15, 2003, 02:26 AM
Okay guys, I had some server trouble, something about the ISP changed and I didn't get changed with it, but day one is up, the shells are up, and the Shottie page is started. Hope to have day two up tomorrow then will work on day three.

February 15, 2003, 02:48 AM
I didn't know that was your site!

I GOT IN HIS REPORT I GOT IN HIS REPORT!!! I"M FAMOUS! Wellk...kinda...yeah....

February 15, 2003, 03:03 AM
Skunk, is this the line that is going to propel you to stardom??
Someone did mention a 96G-SD.

Yeah, your famous!:what: :uhoh:

February 15, 2003, 09:29 AM
Looking good Jeff!

now see if you can find the doods from while they are reporting!

i see from the GB sight that Leitner/Wise is in attendance with their AR15s

when you stop by, tweak them about when they will ship
and if the bolt return lock is working on the 22lr uppers

i set some money aside in 1999 for my TFL evaluation upper
I still want to buy one!


February 15, 2003, 12:16 PM
Thanx Jeff for the coverage! Keep up the good work!
How about some hi-res images?

I also like the Gunblast report, but for some strange reason :p most of the pix show the same viking guy posing for the camera (and some firearms as accessories). :rolleyes: :D

I am thinking about an IWA 2003 report (biggest euro shot show held in Germany this march), if you guys interested...

February 15, 2003, 01:30 PM
I am thinking about an IWA 2003 report (biggest euro shot show held in Germany this march), if you guys interested
Yes, we are interested, Gunhead..

OBTW, you did a great job on the HK P2000 report on Hkpro ...:D

February 15, 2003, 07:35 PM
Schuey, no, it was in reference to 'someone asked about benellis with scope mounts', or maybe I did ask about the G-SD? Now I'm doubly famous.

JeffOTMG, could you also check out the HK shotguns? I want to see if there's a semi-auto one with an optic rail with carbon fiber finish.

Or anything carbon fiber, Fabarm or not.

February 15, 2003, 07:56 PM
i want to know more about that digital night vision. does it work in the same situations as the intensifier tube type? (ie, darkness...not just twilight or dusk)

does it HAVE to use the LED IR lights to see anything? i remember using PVS7B's in the Army with the illuminators, you could see those lights from a mile away.

i also wonder if there would be any damage to the goggles if exposed to bright light (like intensifiers are damaged)

i am very excited about the possibilty of "inexpensive" night vision that actually works :)

February 15, 2003, 08:25 PM
Roger that, Skunky ..

February 16, 2003, 02:47 AM
There has been some discussion of the manufacture of a G36 upper for an AR-15 rifle. This modification would do away with the buffer tube in the stock on an AR-15, the recoil system being contained within the upper receiver. From the people at H&K, it has been discussed, but there is currently no plan to bring this to the market. Sorry guys.
This is not what I wanted to hear.. :banghead:

Regardless,thanks for the info., Jeff OTMG..;)

February 16, 2003, 02:55 AM
Boo hoo...looks like I'll have to 'settle' with a Colt or three now.

Is that UMP 9mm I saw? That suppressed G36...droooool........

February 16, 2003, 03:03 AM
Is that UMP 9mm I saw?
Yep, Skunk, that's what it was, funky curved mag and all...;)

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