Molon Labe - just guns or also your rights & what you stand for?


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labgrade
December 23, 2002, 01:16 AM
The phrase is bandied about enough.

So.

When they come for your guns, you'll tell 'em "Come & git 'em!"

What about your rights? all those things you hold dear? the very essense of what your whole life has been (allegedly) about.

Have you told 'em to "come & git 'em?" or have you sat back & watched them take more 'n more every day without doing anything about it other than bitch to the choir?

If you won't defend your own turf regards ... say, smoking in your fave bar, etc., will you defend your right to keep your guns?

The answer's obviously nope.

Think about it.

You're being eaten alive. Most don't stand up to say "no" on most any account & so it will go with your firearms ownership.

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Tamara
December 23, 2002, 09:42 AM
Do freedom.

Refuse & resist.

sm
December 23, 2002, 06:48 PM
Yep
Agree with Tamara
It's cost me in ways
sad--
I was doing the
"right thing"
some don't know
what that is

dog3
December 24, 2002, 02:07 PM
I quote myself from our Alma Mater

"They" won't come and get "your" guns.

"You" (and I only mean this in a very liberal
sense) will turn them in.

----------------------------------------------------
Please, this is just rhetoric, don't construe this
to mean that I believe anyone here will or won't turn
in their guns. I'm just working with the wording of the
question.
----------------------------------------------------

Moving right along.

"We the People" have a right, enumerated in
the Bill of RIghts to keep and
bear arms. Simple.

"They" have no claims on this right, by law.

However, they do make claims on this right,
like saying that one cannot bear arms. In what
many consider to be the best cases, without a
permit.

So, folks go out and get permits.

Now, on a purely pragmatic level, this is the
only sensible way to proceed.

However, on a more philosophic level, this
strongly implies that those who applied for
permits accept the claim of the government over
RKBA.

A devils deal if you will.

From a point of pure ideology, a ccw is a concession
to the states claim over your inalienable right
to keep and bear arms. From a point of pure
practicality, a ccw is the only practical approach.

So, by extension, "They" will not need to
come and get "your" guns. All they need to
do is keep narrowing the definition of what you
can and cannot own (National Firearms Act)
and making it not too horrible to comply with
the laws, until there is hardly anything that
fits the profile of a legal arm, without those arms
being fully registered and tracked.

Then, as time goes by, they will do buy-backs
and turn-ins, until eventually, the only folks who
have firearms are the "They" of which you speak
and outlaws.

The good and decent law abiding will have
disarmed a long time ago.

I'm not saying it will be easy, I'm not saying that
there won't be a lot of fuss, but in the end, as
in the all years since 1934, "They" will get
them all. Time favors the patient in this, as in
most things.

The pressure is on us, not them. The JPFO and
a few other voices crying in the wilderness are
the only folks trying to take the fight to "them".
Every other action is strictly defensive, and over
time will fail.

gun-fucious
December 24, 2002, 03:27 PM
Joe Strummer
RIP: (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20021224/people_nm/people_strummer_dc_11)
When they kick at your front door, How you gonna come? With your hands on your head, Or on the trigger of your gun. When the law break in, How you gonna go? Shot down on the pavement Or waiting on death row. You can crush us, You can bruise us, But you'll have to answer to Oh, the guns of Brixton. The money feels good, and your life you like it well... But surely your time will come, as in heaven, as in hell. You see, he feels like Ivan, Born under the Brixton sun. His game is called survivin', At the end of the harder they come. You know it means no mercy. They caught him with a gun. No need for the Black Maria, Goodbye to the Brixton sun. You can crush us, You can bruise us, But you'll have to answer to Oh, the guns of Brixton. When they kick at your front door, How you gonna come? With your hands on your head, Or on the trigger of your gun. You can crush us, You can bruise us, You can even shoot us... Oh-The Guns Of Brixton Shot down on the pavement, Waiting in death row. His game is called survivin', As in heaven as in hell You can crush us, You can bruise us, But you'll have to answer to Oh, the guns of Brixton. Oh, The Guns Of Brixton. Oh, The Guns Of Brixton. Oh, The Guns Of Brixton. Oh, The Guns Of Brixton.

Ian
December 24, 2002, 03:32 PM
To emphasize Tamara's point, not just "Do Freedom", but Do Freedom! (http://www.doingfreedom.com)

I'll tell the gummint to go and do impolite things to themselves on a wide variety of issues. Some just take more planning (and are better off not widely publicized) than others.

Watchman
December 24, 2002, 04:23 PM
The key is AWARENESS.

One has to be aware of ones political environment in order not to be caught "off guard".

One must know History, and be able to reconize the consequences of certain actions before they occur.

One has to have the moral fortitude to be able to stand when it is not the easy or popular thing to do.

One can learn the methods of gun grabbers by studing the tatics used in Canada ,Britian, Australia.

One must always be aware and possess the wisdom of knowing WHEN to act and knowing WHEN NOT to act.

So hopefully, when "they" come for my guns...

They will have drawn the line, and they will "have" declared war...
on otherwise legal and lawabiding citizens.

Hopefully I was aware enough to anticipate and I'll be able to watch the whole proceeding through a scope....

SIC TRANSIT GLORIA MUNDI
December 24, 2002, 11:44 PM
All our rights should be defended just as tenaciously as the right to bear arms. Otherwise, it's akin to manning the walls of a fort and passively watching the enemy burn all the villages and crops, and put all the inhabitants to the sword.

PATH
December 25, 2002, 02:08 AM
It applies to all rights all the time!

2dogs
December 25, 2002, 11:01 AM
No offense, but what freedom is left?

Reading alternative/conservative news sources (NewsMax, WND, NY Post, WashTimes etc), does it not feel that the only reason you have not broken the law today is because nobody felt like arresting you? I mean political correctness and uber legislating have practically made it impossible to wipe your @%$ w/o being sued or arrested.

Of course I try to keep fighting, voting, writing letters, sending email and maybe there is still hope, but I'm glad that I have no kids because the future from here looks like an Orwellian nightmare, "...imagine a boot stamping on a human face-forever."

Maybe I'll take up smoking again just to be defiant.............

Sorry for the negativety on this day, maybe it's the rain here.



:(

G-Raptor
December 26, 2002, 12:12 AM
I've worked in information systems for a number of years; also read a lot of science fiction. Occassionally, I get into discussion about when (if) we will ever create a truly "artificially intelligent" machine. I always have the same answer: we will know that the machine is intelligent when we give it an instruction and it says "no".

Disobediance is the right of free men, not slaves. There is a catch, however. When you say "no", you must mean it and be prepared to take the consequences. And there will be consequences. Some are minor, some are major, some can cost you your life. Only you can decide when it is "worth it".

IMO, "we" will not turn in our guns. Some will, of course, but there are others who will not. Those who do not will make all the difference. In the end, you only have those rights you are willing (and able) to defend and a bullet is the ultimate "no" vote.

coati
December 26, 2002, 10:32 AM
All rights must be defended because they all are interlinked to some degree. Just ask any general aviation pilot the state of his or her flying status since the attacks on DC and NY. Despite the best efforts of big organizations like AOPA, local and state law enforcement agencies are still illegally trying to demonize private aviation. The rights of pilots are being marginalized a bit at a time, just like the thousands of contradictory firearms laws introduced over the years.

And, like firearms ownership, general aviation in the United States stands as a world leader in freedom. At least as long as we fight for it.

bad_dad_brad
December 26, 2002, 09:42 PM
Most of us, when the Man comes, will cave.

We were brought up that way. Cooperate.

Of course everybody has their limits. But . . .

We modern Americans have it pretty soft. Come on. Admit it. Let's do the math.

Guns = Color TV + DVD + dishwasher + warm house + kids in school + full belly + good job + nice car + the illusion of freedom.

Guns lose out unless you are desperate.

Honestly, well maybe I will stash a cold piece, but the guns They know about, if They come and get them, I suppose I would give them up.

Somebody said once, the best things you can possess are a cold piece and some gold. Save up.

labgrade
December 26, 2002, 10:38 PM
Decent enough answers (we'e in good company), but what I'm maybe asking moreso is what is it we're doing to prevent the lose of all our freedoms.

in many ways, we're kicking some serious butt regards retention of our firearms rights - uh ... here 'n there - but, we're losing on most every front otherwise. It is a concerted effort/an attempt to cram everyone into the same box.

While "celibrating diversity," I've never seen such an attempt to make every one of us the same. It appears subtle - it is (somewhat), but an incredible amount of current "you're out of line" has lately come to pass.

Latest attack on "Christmas" is a good enough example, & that of smoking anywhere ....

No question, I'm concerned about the firearms ownership aspect (I refuse to even say "gun rights" = HEY! where's the :barf:? we need some applicable smilies here ----> OLeg!? ) .... "gun rights" are akin to .... unh, table rights = they've none - we do) ....

We're losing all our rights, our national identity.

Damnitall! We're Americans! & personally, I refuse to have my identity, as rediculous as it may be, subverted into some "mordern-day melting pot" defined by a couple idgits that think they know better.

(Yah! you'd laugh & pay big bucks if sitting in a Dennis Miller rant .... ;) )

I'm serious as a heart attack .....

WilderBill
December 27, 2002, 02:35 AM
Some days it does seem like "they" are out to change everything I am about.
I don't want to be only another cog in a big machine.
I have started smoking just to assert that I will just because they say I can't.
I never buy anything that involves a 4473. If I lived in some hell hole that requires paperwork on a private purchase I would be a criminal.
I find myself becoming more and more a rebellious teenager...
and I'm in my 50s.

Bainx
December 27, 2002, 08:35 AM
When I start a rant around the Sheeple about having rights according to our Constitution, they just look at me like I'm crazy.
Interesting times in which we live.

Southla1
December 28, 2002, 06:25 PM
"I find myself becoming more and more a rebellious teenager... "


Whew! Glad to hear that WilderBill I thought I was the only old fart like that!

labgrade
December 28, 2002, 06:31 PM
So Southla1, what do you think made me post this thread in the first place.

Huh?

;)

Never alone, Sir. Never alone.

I'm trying to find a molon labe equivalent of "have at it!"

Seems a tad more southern .... if ya catch mah drift. ;)

Chainsaw
December 29, 2002, 12:54 AM
I have lurked at many gun BB's and have noticed that we are our own enemy.
*Some of us wish to ban cellphones.
*Others would like to see smokers stoned to death.
* Some want to control how many of Mother Natures resources we can use.
* Some want to limit what we can have on our own property. The list is endless of how we are our worst enemy.

There are even many anti's among us that just happen to own guns. It appears to me that for the most part that the wealthier one becomes as a gun owner, the more he/she wants to limit Joe Bubba on his gun ownership.

Sadly many of us don't can't even grasp what total freedom is all about.

Some have called me an anarchist and I do not believe my ideas would be perfect, but as a wise old guy once said, " I would rather tend to the consequences of too much liberty than of too little".------------Chainsaw

TallPine
December 29, 2002, 10:45 AM
"Right to vote" ...?

So you vote for A or B, and the result is the same. Sometimes I think the D's and R's are just putting up a show fight to make us think we still have a choice.


"Freedom of speech" ...?

Sure, just don't say anything against the government - that is prohibited by the "patriot act".


"Right to keep and bear arms" ...?

Do it while you can get away with it, and be prepared to shoot - and die.

Better to die for something than live for nothing.

G-Raptor
December 29, 2002, 03:50 PM
Chainsaw has a good point. Most of us "demand" that our rights be respected while we simultaneously try to run everyone else's life:

"Ban smoking"
"Support the seat belt law"
"Save the trees"
"Random drug tests"
"No pray in school"
"Airport security"
etc, etc.

Every new law violated or infringes on somebody's rights. Yet there is support for all of them, including among those who supposedly support the constitution.

Freedom is not just doing what you want to do, it also requires that you allow the other guy to do what he wants to do.

Our country was founded as a Republic, not a democracy. It was done that way to prevent the majority from violating the rights of the few. When we remember that, things will get better, not before.

B9mmHP
December 29, 2002, 04:44 PM
Labgrade, I have been a pain in the butt of many people trying to tell me what I can or can not do since I was a young pup of about 15yrs of age. So I don`t think I will change now.

Way to many to list.

The last one was the county tax lady that wanted to come look at the progress on my home, sure come on down, made appointment, put chain across my road at the proper time, she never called back, no increase in taxs.

You just have to play the game so you win. Next year we will play a game that will be a little differant.

If someone says you can`t. Figure a way you can. If push comes to shove some day, I may be in deep potty, but life will still go on.

Seeker
December 30, 2002, 03:50 AM
To qoute from London's The Seawolf..
To serve was to suffocate. He preferred suffering in freedom to all the happiness of a comfortable servility. He did not care to serve God. He cared to serve nothing. He was no figurehead. He stood on his own legs. He was an individual."

labgrade
December 30, 2002, 07:37 PM
I love it, B9mmHP! ;)

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