[SteelyDan]

Alright, it's time to 'fess up. I actually own a decent collection of knives, but the large majority of them are fixed blades, and I'm obviously missing some basic knowledge on the folders. I just plain do not know or understand the difference between axis and liner lock folders. If someone would enlighten me, I would be most appreciative.

[abaddon]

Not sure what an axis lock is but a liner lock is one where there is a sheet of metal within the handle. The metal is connected to one side of the handle on one end and not connected on the other. The unconnected end "wants" to go to the side of the handle it is not connected to but the blade gets in the way when the knife is closed. When the knife opens the unconnected end of the liner springs to the side it isn't connected to. It looks like this.

|
|
|\ |
| \ | Open knife
| \|

The two parallel lines are the sides of the knife handle. The shorter line is the blade in the open position. Here's what it looks like in the closed position. To make it easier to understand the blade will be the line with only two | things and the handle sides and liner will have three | things.

|| | |
|| | | Closed knife
| \|

Do you see how in the open knife the liner has clicked to a position blocking the blade but in the closed knife the liner is being bent away from that position by the blade?

If I had my digital camera I would take a picture for you.

[riverdog]

The axis lock is a heavy, spring loaded pin that bears against the blade and provides resistance to unintentional opening. When you do open it, it slides into a cut-out on the top of the blade once the blade is fully open. The axis is very strong and ambidextrous. I've never had a problem with an axis lock and I own quite a few.

The liner lock is basically a leaf spring that presses against the side of the blade and once fully open snaps in behind the blade to keep it from closing. I own a few liner locks and no problems there either, but the axis is probably a bit stronger.

[Jim March]

The Axis is generally a LOT more reliable (less likely to accidentally open) and stronger than linerlocks.

There are exceptions. Some VERY well-done linerlocks rival anything else for strength, reliability and resistance to accidentally opening.

But generally, the Axis and it's various cousins such as the SOG arc-lock, Spyderco "ball bearing lock" and similar are worlds ahead of linerlocks, esp. in fighting folders.

[CRridermike]

im pretty sure these are examples of both - nevermind i guess i cant post pics.

[45R]

Frame Locks, liner locks use the same concept.

http://www.pbase.com/image/28982329.jpg


Axis lock... You should be able to see the spring and bar


http://www.pbase.com/image/28993610.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/29137375.jpg

I like the simplicity of the frame lock. Both systems work very well!

[Jim March]

The "frame lock" is a high-end variant of the linerlock. Frame locks are more expensive to produce (requires a grip fully made of a GOOD metal) but in my mind has a HUGE advantage over linerlocks. Actually, two:

1) The frame-lock "locking bar" is WAY thicker than on a standard linerlock.

2) As you squeeze a frame-lock, it tightens up. Built wrong, a conventional linerlock can come UNlocked with white-knuckle squeezing.

But there's a caveat: to take advantage of this "grip strength reinforces the lock" thing on a frame lock (also known as "integral lock" or "Sebenza lock" after the first knife which used it) the pocket clip must be clear of the lockwork. IF it's in the way, which all too many designers do, it hurts the lock's strength. Chris Reeve got it right on the Sebenza; the bottom pic posted by 45R show two examples of getting it WRONG.

If I owned either of those knives, I'd either ditch the clips altogether and make sheaths, or if I had to have clips I'd drill and tap new mount holes for them on the other end of the knife entirely.

[R.H. Lee]

Not to mention how careful you need to be with a liner lock. I actually cut the end of my thumb off with one a coupla years ago. Slid the lock over with my thumb and closed the blade with my finger without moving my thumb outta the way :what: of the serrated portion of the blade.

[SteelyDan]

So, for example, is a Buck 110 a liner lock? Sorry for being so dense.

And thanks for all the info.

[riverdog]

So, for example, is a Buck 110 a liner lock? See Locking mechanisms (http://www.benchmade.com/about_knives/locking_mechanisms.asp ) The Buck 110 is a lock-back. The Benchmade locking_mechanisms page hasa good description of the mechanisms. BM has used most if not all of the locks through the few years they've been in business.

[Penforhire]

I like that with the Axis lock I never have a finger in the path of blade closure, unlike the liner lock and lock-back (at least I can't close my 110 without gripping both sides). Not a big deal but still nice.

[SteelyDan]

This is depressing. I checked out riverdog's link, and I just can't reconcile the design of the 110 I found in my desk with the lock-back sketch in the link. Not only am I getting older, but I'm also apparently getting dumber. This may just be one of those mysteries I'll never understand. I'm sorry, what's your name again? (Just practicing.)

[FNHP35]

Ok, I did some quick work and came up with some diagrams of the lock designs talked about. The first one is the Axis lock, and I don't really know much about it, so, if I got some of the details wrong, tell me, but I think that's basically how it works. The next one is the back lock design. That should be pretty close to how it works, obviously I didn't really test it all out, and so there maybe some dim's a bit wrong, but that's pretty close to what it looks like. The next one is the liner lock. I did three views, top one is from the side of the knife, the next one is from the top closed, then the next one is from the top opened and locked. Hopefully that will help you some in understanding how it works. Oh, and the red arrow stands for how you would unlock it.

Andrew

[riverdog]

Very knice graphic :cool: