Anti gunners hard at work


June 15, 2004, 04:09 PM
I'm sure more than one of you have voted on one of the unofficial polls on the net mining opinion on the AWB...... and if it should or should not be revewed.

All I have voted on were nuked.

Now comes this. It indicates the antis, finding no national numbers to support their hollow claims, have started "producing" their own numbers in the smoke filler rooms from which their policies come.

My nephew send me this link:

I would also like to mention he posted an excellent rebuttal.
I'm posting this on TFL too.

The arti:
North Carolinians Support Renewal of the Assault Weapons Ban

Press Release
Press Release
North Carolina Consumers Council
P.O. Box 9274
Chapel Hill, NC 27515-9274

Jason Idilbi
Phone 919-968-9449

A recent Mason-Dixon Polling and Research survey of North Carolina voters found that North Carolinians favor renewal of the Assault Weapons Ban by a ratio of almost 3 to 1. Sixty-five percent of all respondents favor renewing the ban, while only twenty-three percent oppose. Seventy-five percent of non-gun owners, along with a majority (fifty-two percent) of gun owners, favor renewing the ban.

Furthermore, a majority of all respondents (fifty-three percent) favor strengthening the ban. This includes sixty-nine percent of non-gun owners and one-third (thirty-four percent) of gun owners. Strengthening the ban would include such measures as prohibiting juvenile possession, closing the manufacturer loophole, regulating the sale of pre-ban weapons, and banning conversion kits.

North Carolina data is consistent with national figures of support for renewing and strengthening the Assault Weapons Ban as revealed in the March 2004 national survey commissioned by the Consumer Federation of America (visit and conducted by Operation Research Corporation International.

"North Carolinians have voiced their preferences on this issue," stated Brad Lamb, Executive Director of the North Carolina Consumers Council. "It is time for the elected leadership, especially President Bush, to take seriously the public's demand for a stronger ban and to take immediate action to push through the necessary legislation before the ban expires. Military-style assault weapons are a menace to our law enforcement officers and our communities."

Mr. Lamb joined Raleigh Police Chief Jane Perlov, Million Mom March volunteers, North Carolinians against Gun Violence, and Durham Congregations in Action Thursday May 20th in speaking to the public about the impending expiration of the Assault Weapons Ban.

"This data is incredibly valuable," stated Jason Idilbi, NCCC Firearms Project Coordinator. "There is no better way to show North Carolina representatives in the Senate and Congress that their constituents value the Assault Weapons Ban as an important public policy tool than by informing them of these findings. We would encourage other organizations across the country to commission similar surveys and use the findings to lobby their representatives for extension of the Assault Weapons Ban."

Date of Release: June 3, 2004

Join Together Online publishes selected press releases consistent with our mission to support communities working to prevent gun violence. The views expressed are those of the issuing organization and do not necessarily represent Join Together.

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Sleeping Dog
June 15, 2004, 05:08 PM
Strengthening the ban would include such measures as prohibiting juvenile possession, closing the manufacturer loophole, regulating the sale of pre-ban weapons, and banning conversion kits.

Dumb question - what's a "manufacturer loophole"?


June 15, 2004, 05:18 PM
manufacturing loopholes are firearms manufacturers manufacturing legal firearms, silly. But I'll be you knew that.

When we pointed that out at MPR a few weeks ago in a protest about an radio/online report on the Million Mommies, we actually got the online article pulled.

June 15, 2004, 05:20 PM
It is when they continue to manufactur guns not explicitly banned.

Anti-gunners hate it when the gun industry doesn't roll over and die and halt all production when a very narrow cross section of models or model features have been legaly limited.

June 15, 2004, 05:26 PM
Frankly I am not surprised at the poll results.

Most of the general population is pretty ignorant of guns and all the info they get is from movies and the anti-gun biased media. The fact that a large number of people who don't know much about the subject, and have been deliberately misled, are willing to support a stupid policy is not surprising.

The numbers among gun owners are disappointing, but not really beyond belief. Lots of people may have their boyhood .22 in the attic, but don't really shoot much or give much thought to the issues. Also, lots of people who do shoot are eager to separate themselves from "gun nuts" and jumping on the AWB bandwagon is a way of doing that. Last Fall I heard one of the guys on a hunting trip, while cleaning his shotgun, saying he supports banning civilian possession of handguns. I have heard shooters at the trap/skeet club say they support the AWB more than once. Needless to say in all cases I took the time to "correct" these folks' views - or at least try to get them to re-think their position - but experiences like these tell me that the poll numbers are believable.

And of course, poll questions can easily be skewed to favor certain results.

"Do you think that common-sense laws restricting military weapons of mass destruction from children and criminals should be repealed?"
"Do you think some firearms should be restricted from law-abiding citizens, based on trivial cosmetic features that have nothing to do with lethality or crime?"

So I do not doubt these folks could run a poll and acutally get these numbers.

I notice the anti's doing this more and more these days. Take the .50 caliber issue... since the actual numbers of .50's used in crimes is so low/nonexistent, and gun bans can't be proven to reduce crime, there are no reality-based numbers to support such a ban. But, they can quote a statistic like, "75% of the suburban soccer moms we talked to say they'd feel safer if .50 caliber firearms were banned." Since fact-based or reality-based numbers don't help their cause, they resort to stats on the opinions and feelings of people who don't know what they're talking about.

Proves nothing.

Henry Bowman
June 15, 2004, 05:40 PM
OK. So even if this "poll" is scientifically valid, let the elected ones ignore this minority at their peril.

Sleeping Dog
June 15, 2004, 05:52 PM
It is when they continue to manufacture guns not explicitly banned.

Thanks, Stebalo and jfh. I hadn't heard that term "manufacturer's loophole" before. A negative term for legal activity.

Sort of like using the word "ilk" to describe a group of people (usually friends of mine)

Not that anyone would use pejoratives in a question to influence the outcome of a poll, right? :)

Well, it's time I used the "charcoal loophole" to prepare some bratwurst and burgers for some of my "ilk".


R.H. Lee
June 15, 2004, 06:08 PM
They can "poll" all they want. Opinions are like :cuss: holes, everybody's got one, and these people are talking out of 'em. It's a BOR issue.

Come and get them.

June 15, 2004, 07:08 PM
Only people with no principles do anything based off of a poll.

Standing Wolf
June 15, 2004, 07:18 PM
Only people with no principles do anything based off of a poll.

Except for polls conducted in voting booths.

June 16, 2004, 09:37 AM
Except for polls conducted in voting booths.

Hmm, yes, I suppose that would be the exception. ;-)

Zach S
June 16, 2004, 10:59 AM
North Carolinians Support Renewal of the Assault Weapons Ban
Do you support the AWB?

Do you support the ban of assault weapos such as AK47s, UZIs, Galils and streetsweepers?

Do you support a ban on weapons based on cosmetic features?

All in the way you word it. FWIW, I wasnt asked.

Partisan Ranger
June 16, 2004, 09:19 PM
My dad grew up with guns, is educated, and has a high IQ.

And not even he knows what the 'assault weapons ban' covers.

Public polls on this issue only reveal the extent of the public's ignorance.

June 16, 2004, 09:49 PM
I think the take home lession is this.
The group that commsiioned the poll and had it conducted as "Mason-Dixon Polling and Research survey of North Carolina voters" is an anti group, plain and simple.
Do they describe themselves as such ? No

They did not want or care about the truth or you opinion. They could have just as well developed the numbers with no polling. (and may have)

They carry the deceptive name Consumer Federation of America.

It's a name designed strictly to misdirect the uninformed from the fact that they have an anti 2 A agenda.

If you heard that the Consumer Federation of America made a public presentation to the NC Legislature regarding the AWB sunset it would not ping on your radar, nor most likely that of any pro 2A reader.

But behind the scence, the numbers they would be presenting to the pols would be the stats of this cooked poll. The pols, most likely in favor of renewal, now have the tools they need to justify supporting renewal.

(I can see John Edwards holding up a copy of the polling stats)

Shumer and Finstein use this poll and other bogus ones like it to build a totally false case for renewal and even enhancement........
As usual the Republican counter attack, shadowed by Bushes statment of support, farts away to nothing in the face of a media frenzy..also based on all kinds of bogus polling and outright foolishness.
Surprise ..months later your guys in congress vote for renewal based in part on the empowerment of this false polling.

The poll and the cooked numbers were born only for this purpose. It's target is Congress.


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