Gee, doesn't this look familiar... (Fiocchi "police" 9mm)


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Snowdog
February 12, 2003, 03:07 PM
Been a while since I've visited any of my regular firearm forums, so just cut me some slack if this has been covered already.

Receiving my CTD catalog yesterday, I found some Fiocchi 123gr & 147gr 9mm ammo described as a police over-run. I'll probably order a couple boxes for giggles, but they sure do look familiar:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/product_images/777/AMM-418.jpg

Description copied from site:


This is 9mm Fiocchi ammunition, 147grain, jacket hollow point with special design to feed well in automatics. Box of 50 rounds, brass case, boxer primed, current production, police department over run. Special anti-friction coating with Teflon base to reduce lead exposure. The primer is sealed, the bullet is coated copper and sealed so it is "zero pollution" or does not leave a lead residue and hazard. This expensive ammo is being sold way below distributor cost, limited suppliers, designed for law enforcement. We are selling a 50 round box, a case would be 1,000 rounds or 20 boxes. Non-returnable item, we will not accept any returns on this.

It's priced at less than $8/50... decent enough price.

Is there a consensus on these yet?
TIA

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Beorn
February 12, 2003, 04:25 PM
Turner's Outdoors (a chain of sporting goods stores in CA) has them in 9mm for $7.98 per box.

I'm a little wary of something like that (think Wolf brand ammo), but I'm probably going to buy a box and see what it's like.

When I've shot them, I'll let you know.:)

bpisler
February 12, 2003, 05:05 PM
Fiocchi tends to shot clean in my pistols and accurate too.They're way above wolf which tends to be really dirty.I also reload fiocchi brass in 38spl and 357 mag,works real well in my M-28.

Snowdog
February 12, 2003, 05:15 PM
I've had plenty of experience with Fiocchi, particularly their 115gr 9mm FMJ and 142gr .357 magnum FMJ. For reliability and accuracy, they are just as good as anything made here in the States, IMO.
I never noticed any undue fouling with Italy's Fiocchi, either.

It looks like this new offering from Fiocchi will meet the playdough very soon.

Dr.Rob
February 12, 2003, 05:27 PM
Looks interesting, and I know Fiocchi likes to load their stuff a little hotter than American companies.

Looks a LOT like Winchester/Ranger (ie post black talon) ammo.

Prodigalshooter
February 12, 2003, 11:20 PM
Hmmm, interesting. I like Fiocchi, it has been very good ammo in my experience, clean and a bit hotter than normal, never any bad rounds (so far) in the different calibers I've used(9mm, .38/.357 and .45ACP). I have not seen any hollow-point designs till now. I may have to buy some.

JohnKSa
February 13, 2003, 12:07 AM
I've shot Fiocchi 9mm for years. It's very consistent, very accurate and tends to be a bit hotter than the run of the mill standard pressure 9mm.

It would seem, based on my experience, that they purchase large lots of bullets at very reasonable prices. Overruns, overstocks, and perhaps stocks of discontinued bullets. I've seen an interesting wide variety of bullets on the FMJ Fiocchi I've shot over the years, but all of it shoots great.

The bullet in this case seems very familiar, and, knowing a bit about Fiocchi, one might reasonably assume that Fiocchi bought these bullets at a discount from a manufacturer who no longer loads these particular bullets or who has an overstock of them for some reason.

Isn't that enough said?

If you want to know more, you could contact Fiocchi or maybe do some informal tests with water jugs or soaked phone books.

It would be a shame if public, idle speculation were to ignite a media furor such as has occurred in times past...

JackDRipper
February 13, 2003, 12:30 AM
I called to order the 123gr about a week or so ago and it was sold out then.
JR

PCRCCW
February 13, 2003, 09:19 AM
Wolf and Fiochi..........:scrutiny:
Fiochi is first class ammo that wont clog up your chamber like Wolf will with its lacquer coated cases....Its great ammo and smokes wolf in every regards.....very much equal to the best american made stuff.....
shoot well.

Snowdog
February 13, 2003, 09:25 AM
If you want to know more, you could contact Fiocchi or maybe do some informal tests with water jugs or soaked phone books.

Or Playdough... Oh how I love playdough. You can make an elephant out of it, or pretty colorful flowers... or you could shoot into six cubes measuring 6"x6" and develop a fairly accurate idea of what kind of performance it might offer in ballistic gelatin (actual street results never can be determined, so why fuss).

I've been testing this way for about three years now and I find it to offer picture-book expand from nearly every JHP tested. Before I realized I could've made it myself in the kitchen, I bought around 80 or so pounds of it when I first started 3 years ago and still use the same 80lbs today (carefully sealed in 5 gallon buckets when not in use).

Playdough... good stuff!

It would be a shame if public, idle speculation were to ignite a media furor such as has occurred in times past...

I agree with that assessment completely, that would explain my lack of candor. ;)

Thanks for the info!
I didn't know Fiocchi had a penchant for purchasing bullet overruns from others manufactures....
The only thread of doubt to what it truly is would be based off the fact that it is also offered in 123gr. I don't believe the projectile was ever offered in such a weight.

Alas, I will buy a box and see. :D

boing
February 14, 2003, 12:41 AM
Special anti-friction coating with Teflon base to reduce lead exposure.

Hmmm...is the base of the bullet teflon coated, or is the entire coating teflon based? Because, as I'm sure you know, teflon coated bullets are quite illegal in this fine state.

E. TEFLON-COATED BULLETS

Pursuant to North Carolina General Statute ยง 14-34.3 it is unlawful for any person to import, manufacture, possess, store, transport, sell, offer to sell, purchase, offer to purchase, deliver or give too another, or acquire any Teflon-coated bullet.

http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/firearms.htm#teflon

:p

tw1112
February 14, 2003, 02:13 AM
I've shot fiocchi and federal 9mm in one night through my p99 and could tell that the fiocchi shot a little hotter then the federal imo.

Beorn - Turners sells this exact round? How is it packaged? I know they sell the regular fiocchi 9mm round in the magenta colored box...but that isn't hollowpoint and doesn't have a black bullet. Let me know please as I would love to try these out and compare.

Kahr carrier
February 14, 2003, 08:02 AM
Is it my imagination or does that FIOCCHI hollowpoint look similar to a Winchester Black Talon hollowpoint???

Snowdog
February 14, 2003, 10:42 AM
teflon coated bullets are quite illegal in this fine state.

http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/otn/other/Full.gif
Um, I didn't know that. I heard someone once tell me that, but he also tried to convince people his "modified" Desert Eagle was chambered to feed .50BMG ammunition, so I dismissed just about anything he'd try to tell me.

I think the coating is likely to be similar to Winchester's proprietary anti-friction coating... lubalox is it?

I do believe I'll buy a couple boxes to play with while I can (before they're sold out, withdrawn from the civilian market, hoarded by imperialistic aliens, et al).

Thanks for the heads-up though.

Jim K
February 15, 2003, 01:05 AM
Does Fiocchi call it "Il Artiglio Nero"?

Jim

dude
February 15, 2003, 01:51 AM
I only ordered two boxes. The first will be for R&D and if happy........keeping the other for self-defence.

MAN! they must have some fancy dirt, because that Cheaper Than Dirt place does not live up to its name when you only make a small ammo order.

--$7.99 S&H + a $3.00 flat fee >>> FOR GROUND SHIPPING THAT COULD TAKE UP TO THREE WEEKS!!!






...........oh well, it's only money

Either way the Fiocchi 115g harball is hot enough to use for +p practice shooting. If this stuff performs like I think it will, it will be money well spent

Snowdog
February 15, 2003, 09:31 AM
Jim,
perhaps it would be better described as "La copia di un artiglio nero", if that's indeed what it is.

I think I'll order a box or two today so I'll have something to test in a few weeks. However, it'll have to jump through hoops of fire to replace the G-A 115gr +P+ Gold Dots that currently reside in my K9.

Harold Mayo
February 16, 2003, 06:32 PM
I'm a little wary of something like that (think Wolf brand ammo), but I'm probably going to buy a box and see what it's like.

Guys...Fiocchi is made in Ozark, Missouri...it's near BRANSON. How do you get much more American-made than the heart of the Midwest, the hills of southwest Missouri, and country music?

Fiocchi is NOT some off-brand OR foreign-made OR surplus ammo. Mr. Fiocchi simply decided to set up shop in the US and chose that area to do so. Fiocchi ammo is some of the best value for the money that you can get.


(I am not affiliated with Fiocchi in any way, BTW. :D )

dude
February 17, 2003, 12:10 AM
.............actually most of it is made overseas, you have to look at the back of the box to know. The do make certian shotshells and some pistol ammo here though. The 9mm and .357 that I often use is made over in Italy though.

Either way there is nothing wrong with Italian ammo in my book!




They do have a US Distribution office in MO.

from their website:
"Fiocchi of America, Inc., known today as Fiocchi USA, was established in 1983, as the United States distribution point for Fiocchi Ammunition. The company began in a warehouse in Springfield, Missouri, which served as the shipping point for the product imported from the parent company in Italy."

lots more intresting stuff on their site:
http://www.fiocchiusa.com/

FPrice
February 17, 2003, 12:20 AM
" Gee, doesn't this look familiar..."

I bought two boxes about 6 weeks ago. It seemed to be hotter than my regular ammo (based upon non-scientific "how it feels to me"), but it shot well out of my G19. However i am not about to replace my STHP carry loads with it.

Schuey2002
February 17, 2003, 02:00 AM
Receiving my CTD catalog yesterday
Ok, call me dumb but, what does CTD stand for ??;)

chaim
February 17, 2003, 04:05 AM
Guys...Fiocchi is made in Ozark, Missouri I didn't know that. The "Made in Italy" that is printed on my boxes of .45acp and 9mm threw me off:neener: .

Anyway, I think I thought what a lot of other people thought it looks a lot like. Interesting.

Actually, I love the cheap Fiocchi practice ammo so I'll be on the lookout for this at the stores (esp. at those prices). However, I don't want to order in bulk online until I know for sure how it will perform out of my CZ 75 and my (hopefully) soon to be owned HP clone.

Snowdog
February 17, 2003, 07:59 AM
Schuey2002, no problem... CTD= Cheaper Than Dirt.

Schuey2002
February 18, 2003, 03:41 AM
Wow ! That should have been fairly obvious..

Excuse me while I go..:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

There.. I feel better now.;)

Harold Mayo
February 18, 2003, 10:48 AM
Nah, it's made in Ozark, Missouri. They have a manufacturing facility there. I've been INSIDE and watched. An acquaintance of mine worked a bodyguard detail for Mr. Fiocchi in the time that he came over to scout out that location and make himself known to pertinent area businessmen. The first had a redistribution center there, that is correct, but it is actually manufactured there at this point.

As for the "Made in Italy"...don't know. All of the Fiocchi that I have bought was made in Ozark.

dude
February 18, 2003, 12:54 PM
Well don't let anything like 'facts' get in your way then!

But if you want to feel that all your Fiocchi is made in USA, then go ahead...........the rest of us will just go by the 'Made in Italy' on the back of our .9mm, .357 and .45 and the Made in USA in the shotgun shells.

All the 'what made where' info is on their website

boing
February 18, 2003, 01:34 PM
From www.fiocchiusa.com :

Fiocchi of America, Inc., known today as Fiocchi USA, was established in 1983, as the United States distribution point for Fiocchi Ammunition. The company began in a warehouse in Springfield, Missouri, which served as the shipping point for the product imported from the parent company in Italy.

After joining the market and becoming known for its quality ammunition, Fiocchi USA started manufacturing 12 gauge ammunition here in the States. Fiocchi obtained a beautiful location for its manufacturing facility near Ozark, Missouri and the first production of shells came off the line in early 1987. Now, 14 years later, Fiocchi USA manufactures shotshell ammunition along with several caliber's of centerfire pistol cartridges.

And from the FAQ page (http://www.fiocchiusa.com/faq.html):

We have a manufacturing plant in Ozark, Missouri, where we load both shotshell and centerfire ammunition. We also import centerfire ammunition, reloading components, match grade rimfire ammunition and specialty/obsolete loads from our parent company in Italy.

Looks like everybody is wrong except me, again! :neener:

chaim
February 18, 2003, 04:58 PM
I think I'll continue to go by what it says on the box. Sounds like it is mostly made in Italy but some is made in the US. When the box says "Made in the USA" instead of "Made in Italy" I'll assume that the Fiocchi I have is American made. While all my Fiocchi says "Made in Italy" I think it is still a safe assumption that it is Italian even if some Fiocchi may be made in the US.

Harold Mayo
February 18, 2003, 07:15 PM
Hmm...I just cracked open a case of Fiocchi. It doesn't even say where it was made. This is a case of .45 ACP ball. A couple of boxes of 9mm that I have laying here say "Ozark, Missouri". Perhaps, since I am closer to the manufacturing facility, I end up getting what is manufactured here.

HOWEVER...I shoot with a Fiocchi sales rep on occasion who assures me that they manufacture the ammunition here.

:neener:

dude
February 18, 2003, 08:23 PM
........he also needs to read the back of the ammo boxes and his own website.


If your Fioochi is made in MO then that's great...........but all the rest of us will continue to happily shoot our made in Italy ammo. Perhaps your .45 is not the standard military ball stuff most of us shoot........as Fiocchi mainly makes Military pistol ammo for their own use and export.

coonan357
February 19, 2003, 05:22 PM
made here or there I have not a bad thing to say about fiocchi ammo , it works great and is cheap , also the boxes could be printed in italy and shipped here.... :rolleyes: thats another thing to think about .

106rr
February 21, 2003, 03:47 AM
I have used Fiocchi for years -- good stuff. I bought some Fiocchi Qualifier (white box) in 9MM that was the worst ammo I have ever used. Accuracy was terrible but it sure was hot. I threw it away rather than put it through my gun.

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