Duct Tape and Plastic Sheeting..but no guns.


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Redlg155
February 12, 2003, 06:23 PM
I was at the bookstore today and while browsing through books I was listening to the television playing in the background. The topic was Govt recommendations (from the Homeland Security Office) for defense against terrorist attacks. Some of the items were duct tape, plastic sheeting, extra food and of course batteries.

Funny..but I don't recall having guns mentioned as a defense against terrorist.

Wouldn't it have been interesting if they did tell Americans to arm themselves?:D

Good Shooting
Red

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4thHorseman
February 12, 2003, 06:28 PM
You'll need guns to protect yourself from the society that has broken down and want what you have. Being food or water, or unspeakable things that they could do to your family members. There will be no cops to respond to your calls for help. Case in point the LA riots or the aftermath of a hurricane. The cops will be home taking care of their families, like they should be.

madkiwi
February 12, 2003, 06:41 PM
The room in our house we plan on retreating to if necessary is the one that has the gunsafe.

I wouldn't want to be the looter that comes to my house. I will have multiple choices on what to give him- some .223, .308, .40 S&W, .357 Sig, .45 ACP, 00 buck or just plain ol' 12 ga slugs.

They don't want you to have guns, it makes it harder for FEMA to relocate the serfs to an internment camp (I'm sorry, I mean shelter) after some kind of occurence.

madkiwi

Blackhawk
February 12, 2003, 06:50 PM
Wouldn't it have been interesting if they did tell Americans to arm themselves? Yep.

It was interesting when the LA gov said women should get firearms to protect themselves against the serial rapist....

CWL
February 12, 2003, 06:59 PM
Your first line of defense against a terrorist attack is plastic & duct tape. In the likelihood of nuclear (dirty bomb), biological or chemical attack, you will need to seal your house/quarters against intrusion from clouds and gasses. Guns won't help here.

If you need guns, you will likely be defending against fellow Americans who are looting or desparate to get at what you may have stored up.

Buglight
February 12, 2003, 07:03 PM
I heard that news too and instead of buying duct tape and plastic, I just got for myself 2 boxes of HPJs and 2 boxes of FMJs, sorry Mr Govt, as much as I'd like to do what you recommended but I also like to do what I suppose to do too, protecting my family that's it. :fire: .

standingbear
February 12, 2003, 07:14 PM
but...being thats its winter(here anyways) and a screaming 12 degrees,dont cha think sealing up the house would not be a good idea?ever hear of carbone monoxide poisoning?if us winterfolk cant use our heaters then duh..freezing aint a good idea either.ill take my chances with whatever may be and deal with it.im not freakin out.buy some guns,support the economy.

bbrins
February 12, 2003, 07:38 PM
I was at one of the local Ace Hardware stores today picking up some plumbing supplies and the place was packed with people buying heaters, plastic, duct tape, propane, etc. I needed one 9 volt battery for my electrical tester, the only batteries left on the rack were those no named brand ones. People are getting paranoid.

Ron L
February 12, 2003, 07:42 PM
This preparedness sounds more like a placebo than anything else. Something to keep people busy and make them think they're DOING something.

Most houses nowadays are so energy efficient, they've had to design ways for fresh air to come in. Windows don't leak, so why the plastic? And the furnace will need fresh air to burn too, it's gotta draw it in from somewhere. I agree with standingbear about carbon monoxide too.

We've discussed this and living just outside of Detroit, we have two considerations. Dearborn and Dearborn Heights are one of the largest Arab communities in the US. Would they actually harm so many of themselves? And with 3 crossings between the US and Canada, would they do anything to possibly hinder travel between the USA and Canada?

I seriously doubt that a group of terrorists are going to mosey down the street in my puny subdivision and target my house. And I'm prepared to protect my family against anybody else the gets stupid about this whole thing.

And I'll say the same thing I said about the whole Y2K thing. I don't need to stockpile as long as I know who else in my neighborhood has stockpiled. :D

4thHorseman
February 12, 2003, 07:43 PM
My local gun store sold out of 45 shells and almost out of 223 cal.
I bought a few more boxes of 00 Buck shot.
The gun store owner claims, business is the best it has been in years.
:)

TallPine
February 12, 2003, 07:46 PM
Don't you know ?????

This is Bush's new plan to stimulate the economy. :D

Atticus
February 12, 2003, 08:08 PM
Anyone know of an affordable way to create and maintain positive air pressure in your house?

PageField
February 12, 2003, 08:15 PM
Bush Beans....from the can.......tin

AZTOY
February 12, 2003, 08:32 PM
I have a role of duct tape maybe, i should put it on E-bay:neener:

DeltaElite
February 12, 2003, 08:37 PM
I could do something very interesting to a terrorist with duct tape and plastic sheeting. :evil:

SteyrAUG
February 12, 2003, 08:38 PM
Ya know, I too listened to the government advocate creating a air tight room. You know, one with no oxygen coming in. Glad to see I'm not the only person to figure out that ain't the best idea in the world.

Wonderful advice the government has for us. :rolleyes:

Phil Ca
February 12, 2003, 08:44 PM
Today on the radio it was stated that gun shops in Baghdad were doing big business. Also people were being issued more ration coupons so that they could stock up on food and supplies.

Yes it would be a switch if our very own feddotgov would suggest that our people would obtain firearms.

Remember the scene in the WW2 movie where Russian troops were sent against the Germans with one soldier getting a rifle and 5 rounds of 7.62x54R ammo and the next 4 or 5 getting 5 rounds plus instructions to pick up the rifle of a soldier that was killed??

gryphon
February 12, 2003, 08:48 PM
No, No, NO! You've got it all wrong. The duct tape and the plastic are for disposing of the bodies of those that try to steal your twinkies. :D

Waitone
February 12, 2003, 08:53 PM
I got several bones to pick with Bush on homeland security. Top of list is the apparent lack of anything approaching what we used to call civil defense. Its almost as if the federales have said "Whatever we do ain't gonna work, so we won't do anything." The duct tape and plastic routine while being actively used in Israel would put out to the taxpaying class in a one-half glutile manner. It strikes me as another one of those CYA initiative the federales engaged in so frequently since 911.

I don't think the ruling class needs to say anything about firearms. Free Americans on their own initiative are acting. I went to a gunshow last weekend and was surprised at the attendence.

BlackArrow
February 12, 2003, 09:46 PM
We have no civil defense, our Gov. will pretty much scrape the bodies or dust off the sidewalk and put in a report after the fact and then pass a new bill to restrict our rights.....:scrutiny: I'm sorry but plastic sheeting and duct tape is not going to protect you from Gamma rays that would be given off by a nuclear blast. Misdirection? Economic development? Just plain stupid!:cuss: If it's nuke, you'd better be below ground, Biohazard??????? Hell by the time they let you know you'd already be exposed and well on your way to the promised land.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They're not listening, they don't care, they're not the "little people". When I go I think I'll take a few of them with me. Maybe let them know first though. BlackArrow

vulcan
February 12, 2003, 10:32 PM
With the taxes we pay, the gubmit should at least give each taxpayer a gas mask & atropine injectors like Israel.

Ron L,
Not a good idea

Your stockpiled neighbors might have included guns in their preps also:D

blitzer0101
February 12, 2003, 11:01 PM
I live very close to an acitve arsenal.

I have no defense if it gets hit due to the "unkown" stuff stored there, WINK WINK. ;)

Just pray and sleep like it's any other day. :p

My apartment is not very defenseable, too many windows and cardboard internal doors. It does sit behind a very large building and is surronded by trees and other larger apartment buildings and houses. Will have to use blackout conditions and keep my head low. It looks deserted from the small view available from the street.

Can't seal it as there are to many air leaks from the crawl space being used as a furnace return duct!

:scrutiny:

If the nickel drops I'll have to Pray and Spray, "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition..."

One handgun in each hand and various other "toys" near by. :eek:

Redlg155
February 12, 2003, 11:07 PM
by the time they let you know you'd already be exposed and well on your way to the promised land.

I agree. I've spent many a day sucking in some CS gas because I couldn't get my gas mask sealed in time during training. Those days of running around the firing point with a tankers mask dangling from a hose and trying to escape from the gas were not fun at all!:D

In a real situation we are in big trouble no matter how much duct tape and plastic we have. No one has enough oxygen to await a decontamination crew to clean the area.

Now a threat against conventional weapons and men are a different story. Woe unto the man or men who threaten my family.

Oh..and for stockpiling foods I've heard mostly of freeze dried foods and canned foods being stored. Folks might also want to add a good quality protien powder to their stores, preferably a weight gainer type. Although not a meal, the typical 2lb container contains 39 servings. Not exactly a meal, but a good substitute to help maintain weight and health. Protien powders can also double as a flour substitute for baking.

Good Shooting
RED

Citadel99
February 13, 2003, 08:52 PM
Atticus,

Saw this in a news article today:

One option that a number of scientists said holds promise for protection is the installation in homes and office buildings of air-handling machinery. The High Efficiency Particulate Air, or HEPA, filter pumps filtered air into an area faster than the air can escape through cracks in the walls, creating "overpressure." This pressure imbalance makes it impossible for toxins in the outside air to enter the sealed area.

Marketers of the equipment, which sells for about $1,500 a home, say it could protect against a chemical or biological attack.

One proponent is Richard L. Garwin, a physicist with decades of government experience in technology and security. "The first and most practical defense against biological warfare attack is to maintain 'positive' air pressure of filtered air within buildings," he wrote in the New York Review of Books two years ago.

Bruce H
February 13, 2003, 09:33 PM
I can see the need for plastic and duck tape. It needs to be liberally applied from the neck up to several inside the D.C. beltway. Look at all the purchases Y2K generated. This will be the new survival deal for awhile. We are becoming a nation of complete idiots. The first sign is we elect them.

benEzra
February 13, 2003, 10:07 PM
Anyone know of an affordable way to create and maintain positive air pressure in your house?
Actually, I've read of a cheap way to do the following:
The High Efficiency Particulate Air, or HEPA, filter pumps filtered air into an area faster than the air can escape through cracks in the walls, creating "overpressure." This pressure imbalance makes it impossible for toxins in the outside air to enter the sealed area.
You can do a pretty good impression of an overpressure system with a good new vacuum cleaner that bills itself as HEPA. Make an air intake using the vacuum hose and seal it well around it. Turn on the vacuum and vacuum in outside air and exhaust it into the house. Air has to pass through the filtration to enter the house. Drawbacks--noisy, and requires 120V electricity. Obviously, I can't speak as to the filtration efficiency. You could also put some activated charcoal in front of your intake?

The duct tape/plastic is actually to TEMPORARILY reduce the diffusion rate into the home in the event a toxic cloud is announced drifting your way, until the cloud has passed. I think the people that are wrapping their houses in anticipation of a possible chemical attack may be missing the point (unless they know something I don't).

Harold Mayo
February 13, 2003, 10:09 PM
How is this for a scenario...

Create a public "threat level" coding for your citizenry and then alarm them by setting it at a high level and telling them that they should be prepared and buy emergency supplies. Put many things on the list. People buy them, spending whatever they need to spend to feel "safe"...gives the economy a little boost, huh?

I wonder if people will start putting a "safe room" in their homes like the Israelis do? For those not familiar with the practice, I believe it is REQUIRED, at least in some parts of Israel, for homes to be built with a small "safe room" which will give partial protection from chemical and biological attacks. I think some even have their own (limited) air supply.

Diesle
February 13, 2003, 10:50 PM
I didn’t read all the posts on this thread, but Ill jump in anyhow....

This plastic sheets and duck tape thing reeks of total BS. You would need some sort of filter capable of refining air and a completely sealed environment. Talk about an unattainable goal.... Very odd.

My enthusiasm for duck tape is once again reinforced... Beyond its next to miraculous ability to bond virtually any 2 surfaces that exist, it is now the most effective tool of self defense available to the common man in 'The War on Terror'.


Very Odd indeed...???


Diesle

Ron L
February 13, 2003, 11:27 PM
Vulcan,
Ron L, Not a good idea. Your stockpiled neighbors might have included guns in their preps also

Ah, but you see, a tactical probe of the neighborhood has already determined who is anti-SD or too old and feeble and who is not. Basically, the block I live on is MINE. :D

Basically, I don't even know why we're still talking about this. The Feds have come out today and said that the terrorist prisoner they got this information from was lying and the threat that raised the limit to orange was based on misinformation. So much for that.

What's this world coming to when you can't even trust your local terrorist to tell you the truth? Sheesh! :rolleyes:

Edward429451
February 14, 2003, 12:23 AM
It seems to me that you can seal your house as tight as you want to but there still needs to be air change. Even if you seal it air tight (Unlikely), then filter the air HEPA style, you still better have a lot of plants because Filters do not change carbon dioxide into oxygen. Carbon dioxide from you exhaling is poisonous in high enough concentrations. You going to seal your furnace make up air, and vent also?

beemerb
February 14, 2003, 01:31 AM
I think all of this is bull.Keep the people happy and make them think they are safe by doing things that will not help.If the goverment told the truth about defence from CBN they would cause a major panic.When Y2K hit I dug out old gas masks and sold them for 125 a pop on ebay.What would they defend against?No idea. The filters where old so probably wouldn't help with just plain old tear gas.Sure uped my ammo and gun supply with that money.

Propaganda in its best form
Bob

buford1
February 14, 2003, 05:08 AM
The duct tape and plastic are for chemical attacks. Biological weapons END GAME.

seeker_two
February 14, 2003, 05:25 AM
If Bush & Ridge were REALLY interested in Homeland Security, they'd have closed the borders & reinforced INS w/ troops a long time ago.

Why are they telling us to seal our houses when they can't seal our country? :scrutiny:

If the worst happens, I'll be the one locked & loaded...:cool:

Citadel99
February 14, 2003, 07:00 AM
If Bush & Ridge were REALLY interested in Homeland Security, they'd have closed the borders & reinforced INS w/ troops a long time ago.

Yeah, whatever. You're probably right. The president doesn't care whatsoever about homeland security. :rolleyes:

deputy tom
February 14, 2003, 09:46 AM
Duct tape is Our Friend.tom.;)

http://www.ducktapeclub.com/

Sportcat
February 14, 2003, 01:08 PM
2 words... "House Condom."

Don Gwinn
February 14, 2003, 01:26 PM
Whatever. The bottom line is that you can NEVER have too much duct tape.

craigz
February 14, 2003, 01:36 PM
Forget the Plastic Sheets
Words of Wisdom From An Armor Master
by SFC Red Thomas (Ret)

Reproduction and distribution is authorized and encouraged.

Since the media has decided to scare everyone with predictions of
chemical, biological, or nuclear warfare on our turf I decided to write a paper and keep things in their proper perspective. I am a retired military weapons, munitions, and training expert.

Lesson number one: In the mid 1990s there were a series of nerve gas attacks on crowded Japanese subway stations. Given perfect conditions for an attack less than 10% of the people there were injured. 60 Minutes once had a fellow telling us that one drop of nerve gas could kill a thousand people, well he didn't tell you the thousand dead people per drop was theoretical.

Drill Sergeants exaggerate how terrible this stuff was to keep the recruits awake in class (I know this because I was a Drill Sergeant too). Forget everything you've ever seen on TV, in the movies, or read in a novel about this stuff, it was all a lie (read this sentence again out loud!). These weapons are about terror, if you remain calm, you will probably not die. This is far
less scary than the media and their "Experts," make it sound.

Chemical weapons are categorized as Nerve, Blood, Blister, and Incapacitating agents. Contrary to the hype of reporters and politicians they are not weapons of mass destruction, they are "Area denial," and terror weapons that don't destroy anything. When you leave the area you almost always leave the risk. That's the difference; you can leave the area and the risk; soldiers may
have to stay put and sit through it and that's why they need all that spiffy gear.

These are not gasses, they are vapors and/or air borne particles. The agent must be delivered in sufficient quantity to kill/injure, and that defines when/how it's used.

Every day we have a morning and evening inversion where "stuff," suspended in the air gets pushed down. This inversion is why allergies (pollen) and air pollution are worst at these times of the day. So, a chemical attack will have its best effect an hour or so either side of sunrise/sunset. Also, being vapors and airborne particles they are heavier than air so they will seek low places like ditches, basements and underground garages. This stuff won't work when it's freezing, it doesn't last when it's hot, and wind spreads it too thin too fast. They've got to get this stuff on you or get you to inhale it for it to work. They also have to get the concentration of chemicals high enough to kill or wound you. Too little and it's nothing,
too much and it's wasted. What I hope you've gathered by this point is that a chemical weapons attack that kills a lot of people is incredibly hard to do with military grade agents and equipment so you can imagine how hard it will be for terrorists. The more you know about this stuff the more you realize how hard it is to use. We'll start by talking about nerve agents.

You have these in your house, plain old bug killer (like Raid) is nerve agent. All nerve agents work the same way; they are cholinesterase inhibitors that mess up the signals your nervous system uses to make your body function. It can harm you if you get it on your skin but it works best if they can get you to inhale it. If you don't die in the first minute and you can leave the area you're probably gonna live. The military's antidote
for all nerve agents is atropine and pralidoxime chloride. Neither one of these does anything to cure the nerve agent, they send your body into overdrive to keep you alive for five minutes, after that the agent is used up. Your best protection is fresh air and staying calm. Listed below are the symptoms for nerve agent poisoning. Sudden headache, Dimness of vision (someone you're looking at will have pinpointed pupils), Runny nose, Excessive saliva or drooling, Difficulty breathing, Tightness in chest, Nausea, Stomach cramps, Twitching of exposed skin where a liquid just got on you. If you are in public and you start experiencing these symptoms, first ask yourself, did anything out of the ordinary just happen, a loud pop, did someone spray something on the crowd? Are other people getting sick too? Is there an odor of new mown hay, green corn, something fruity, or camphor where
it shouldn't be? If the answer is yes, then calmly (if you panic you breathe faster and inhale more air/poison) leave the area and head up wind, or, outside. Fresh air is the best "right now antidote." If you have a blob of liquid that looks like molasses or Karo syrup on you; blot it or scrape it off and away from yourself with anything disposable. This stuff works based on your body weight, what a crop duster uses to kill bugs won't hurt you unless you stand there and breathe it in real deep, then lick the residue off the ground for while. Remember they have to do all the work, they have to get the concentration up and keep it up for several minutes while all you have to do is quit getting it on you/quit breathing it by putting space between you and the attack.

Blood agents are cyanide or arsine which effect your blood's ability to provide oxygen to your tissue. The scenario for attack would be the same as nerve agent. Look for a pop or someone splashing/spraying something and folks around there getting woozy/falling down. The telltale smells are bitter almonds or garlic where it shouldn't be. The symptoms are blue lips, blue under the fingernails and rapid breathing. The military's antidote is amyl nitride and just like nerve agent antidote it just keeps your body working for five minutes till the toxins are used up. Fresh air is the your best individual chance.

Blister agents (distilled mustard) are so nasty that nobody wants to even handle it let alone use it. It's almost impossible to handle safely and may have delayed effect of up to 12 hours. The attack scenario is also limited to the things you'd see from other chemicals. If you do get large, painful blisters for no apparent
reason, don't pop them, if you must, don't let the liquid from the blister get on any other area, the stuff just keeps on spreading. It's just as likely to harm the user as the target. Soap, water, sunshine, and fresh air are this stuff's enemy.

Bottom line on chemical weapons (it's the same if they use industrial chemical pills); they are intended to make you panic, to
terrorize you, to herd you like sheep to the wolves. If there is an attack, leave the area and go upwind, or to the sides of the wind stream. They have to get the stuff to you, and on you. You're more likely to be hurt by a drunk driver on any given day than be hurt by one of these attacks.

Your odds get better if you leave the area. Soap, water, time, and fresh air really deal this stuff a knock-out-punch. Don't let fear of an isolated attack rule your life. The odds are really on your side.

Nuclear bombs. These are the only weapons of mass destruction on earth. The effects of a nuclear bomb are heat, blast, EMP, and radiation. If you see a bright flash of light like the sun, where the sun isn't, fall to the ground! The heat will be over a second. Then there will be two blast waves, one out going, and one on it's way back. Don't stand up to see what happened after
the first wave; anything that's going to happen will have happened in two full minutes. These will be low yield devices and will not level whole cities. If you live through the heat, blast, and initial burst of radiation, you'll probably live for a very very long time. Radiation will not create fifty foot tall women, or giant ants and grass hoppers the size of tanks. These will be at the most 1 kiloton bombs; that's the equivalent of 1,000 tons of TNT. Here's the real deal, flying debris and radiation will kill a
lot of exposed (not all!) people within a half mile of the blast. Under perfect conditions this is about a half mile circle of death and destruction, but, when it's done it's done. EMP stands for Electro Magnetic Pulse and it will fry every electronic device for a good distance, it's impossible to say what and how far but probably not over a couple of miles from ground zero is a good guess. Cars, cell phones, computers, ATMs, you name it, all will be out of order.

There are lots of kinds of radiation, you only need to worry about three, the others you have lived with for years. You need to
worry about "Ionizing radiation," these are little sub atomic particles that go whizzing along at the speed of light. They hit individual cells in your body, kill the nucleus and keep on going. That's how you get radiation poisoning, you have so many dead cells in your body that the decaying cells poison you. It's the same as people getting radiation treatments for cancer, only a bigger area gets radiated. The good news is you don't have to just sit there and take it, and there's lots you can do rather than panic.

First; your skin will stop alpha particles, a page of a newspaper or your clothing will stop beta particles, you just gotta try and avoid inhaling dust that's contaminated with atoms that are emitting these things and you'll be generally safe from them. Gamma rays are particles that travel like rays (quantum physics makes my brain hurt) and they create the same damage as alpha and beta particles only they keep going and kill lots of cells as they go all the way through your body. It takes a lot to stop these things, lots of dense material, on the other hand it takes a lot of this to kill you. Your defense is as always to not panic. Basic hygiene and normal preparation are your friends. All canned or frozen food is safe to eat. The radiation poisoning will not effect plants so fruits and vegetables are OK if there's no dust on 'em (rinse 'em off if there is). If you don't have running water and you need to collect rain water or use water from wherever, just let it sit for thirty minutes and skim off the water gently from the top. The dust with the bad stuff in it will settle and the remaining water can be used for the toilet which will still work if you have a bucket of water to pour in the tank.

Finally there's biological warfare. There's not much to cover here. Basic personal hygiene and sanitation will take you further than a million doctors. Wash your hands often, don't share drinks, food, sloppy kisses, etc., with strangers. Keep your garbage can with a tight lid on it, don't have standing water (like old buckets, ditches, or kiddy pools) laying around to allow mosquitoes breeding room. This stuff is carried by vectors, that is bugs, rodents, and contaminated material.

If biological warfare is as easy as the TV makes it sound, why has Saddam Hussein spent twenty years, millions, and millions of dollars trying to get it right?

If you're clean of person and home, you eat well and are active, you're gonna live. Overall preparation for any terrorist attack is the same as you'd take for a big storm. If you want a gas mask, fine, go get one. I know this stuff and I'm not getting one and I told my Mom not to bother with one either (how's that for confidence). We have a week's worth of cash, several days worth of canned goods and plenty of soap and water. We don't leave stuff
out to attract bugs or rodents so we don't have them. These weapons are made to cause panic, terror, and to demoralize. If we don't run around like sheep they won't use this stuff after they find out it's no fun. The government is going nuts over this stuff because they have to protect every inch of America. You've only gotta protect yourself, and by doing that, you help the
country.

Finally, there are millions of caveats to everything I wrote here
and you can think up specific scenarios where my advice isn't the best. This letter is supposed to help the greatest number of people under the greatest number of situations. If you don't like my work, don't nit pick, just sit down and explain chemical, nuclear, and biological warfare in a document around three pages long yourself. This is how we the people of the United States can rob these people of their most desired goal, your terror.

(c) SFC Red Thomas (Ret)
Armor Master Gunner
Mesa, AZ
Reproduction and distribution is authorized and encouraged.

ojibweindian
February 14, 2003, 02:00 PM
A great article.

Is there a link or something?

Waitone
February 14, 2003, 02:16 PM
SFC Red Thomas (Ret)

Thank you for your insight. It is refreshing to say the least to read sane and logical thoughts on the threats posed by weapons of mass destruction. As usual, reality is somewhat different than perception.

I would humbly suggest you add one more weapon of mass destruction to your list. That weapon of mass destruction is the media. Well, maybe calling the media a WMD is a bit off the mark. Perhaps a better description would be to call the media "a force multiplier" for terrorists. As a KC-130 is a force multiplier to the air force and the Apache helicopter is a force multiplier to armored units, the media will cause any NBC event in the US to achieve it stated objective. The ignorance (which I think is deliberate and self-serving) will be used to create panic and confusion in the population.

I have some background in radiation physics. The danger of a dirty bomb is real but quite limited if you discount the force multiplier effect of an uninformed and ignorant media. The chance of badguys bringing in a gamma rich isotope into the US is small. If a dirty bomb is built using a gamma source sufficient to really be dangerous to Americans has already been lethal to the badguys building the bomb. No, a dirty bomb will most likely be rich in alpha sources found thoughout the US in hospitals and doctor's offices. A geiger counter will sing loudly when struck with an alpha source. A noisey geiger counter will play on the evening news but will not accurately portray limited danger. Media will be the cause of panic.

So, sir. From a technical standpoint WMD are worrisome. Their danger is real but not all encompassing. But that is not the battlefield. The battlefield is the American mind. A force multiplier, known as the media, will make WMD's effect far larger than the reality of their effectveness. Recall the DC shooter fiasco of late last year. A murderer was using a varmit round to murder innocent people from a distance of a couple of hundred feet. The media turned it into a highly trained sniper killing victims from thousands of feet away with a kigh powered killing machine. Media still ain't got it right.

RobW
February 14, 2003, 02:21 PM
Isn't it something that the most we have to fear after a terrorist chemical/biological/atomic attac are our fellow "citizens"?

MitchSchaft
February 14, 2003, 02:48 PM
Nice article, craigz. Do you have a link to the original?

moa
February 14, 2003, 02:52 PM
Saw a presentation on the news by a Phd. on the affects of a "dirty bomb". That is a regular explosive charge laced with nuclear material. Say perhaps a truck bomb.

Biggest danger is the blast itself. After that, the danger is rather minimal. Best defense in an urban area is just enter a building. Otherwise, just leave the area.

The example that was used is a dirty bomb going off in the area of the Washington DC Mall in front of the Capitol building with nine mile an hour southeast wind. The explosive plume would pass over the White House.

Airwolf
February 14, 2003, 03:22 PM
You are NOT going to believe this one...

http://www.local6.com/orlpn/news/stories/news-197806620030214-080228.html

Man Wraps Entire House In Plastic After Terror Warning

Posted: 9:51 a.m. EST February 14, 2003
Updated: 9:58 a.m. EST February 14, 2003

Warnings from the Department of Homeland Security to get duct tape and plastic prompted a Connecticut man to wrap his entire house in plastic, according to a Local 6 News report.

Paul West said that he'd rather be safe than sorry.
So he bought hundreds of feet of plastic sheeting, batten boards, stapleguns, and ladders, to seal up his Winsted home.

"I just have all this energy from tension and anxiety and I don't know what to do with it," West said."Basically, I'm doing what the government says we should do. I may be doing it a little more energetically than some folks, but I'm trying to be pro-active rather than reactive."

The materials for the project cost about $250.

"My wife's not happy, but she puts up with it," West said. "My kids think it's a good thing to do."


You sir, are a Class One Moron.

Once again I am struck dumb by the people that I must share oxygen with on this rock in space.

:cuss: :banghead: :scrutiny:

Sportcat
February 14, 2003, 03:26 PM
First documented use of the "House Condom."

P12
February 14, 2003, 04:58 PM
This thread has been a good read!

The local talking heads said the instructions were to buy plastic sheeting and electrical tape.:rolleyes:

Maybe some script writer played a joke on her.:D

bountyhunter
February 14, 2003, 07:52 PM
My wife said duct tape could stop the war. I told her the Secret Service would never let her get close enough to use it.:p

AZTOY
February 14, 2003, 07:59 PM
http://www.apj.us/MOPAULducttapedefense.jpg










GUN :neener:

craigz
February 14, 2003, 08:41 PM
Just to clarify, I am not SFC Thomas. I just found that essay on another board, and found it very enlightening. I don't have a link to the original source.

Turkey Creek
February 15, 2003, 12:18 AM
Hmmm- Let's see here- you seal a room with duct tape and plastic sheeting to make it impervious to outside contaminates- in so doing no air gets in, if you can make it work- now we've got idiots sitting in a room with only the oxygen present that which you sealed in- so everybodys breathing this limited oxygen supply and pumping out carbon dioxide- how long before the oxygen level drops and the carbon dioxide level increases until you croke from asphyxiation? - yup, this is a real smart idea!

Wildalaska
February 15, 2003, 03:40 AM
Up here in Alaska we have ben putting duct tape on our houses forever...and on our cars, rifles stocks, cabins, snowmachines, boats, fishing poles...

BerettaNut92
February 15, 2003, 03:51 AM
I missed the boat.

I should have sold a tactical house sealant kit, AS RECOMMENDED BY THE FEMA.

It would have lots of plastic sheets but not enough duct tape. So they'd have to buy more kits! And make the tape black so it would be TACTICAL!! Like how hot dogs come in 10 but you only get 8 buns.

:banghead:

4thHorseman
February 15, 2003, 04:29 AM
To be honest here guys, Duct tape on the windows is just a feel good idea. The leakage through the wall sockets, leaks between the slab and walls, leaks through the walls and around doors....well........plastic on windows makes it LOOK like you are doing something.;)

Waitone
February 15, 2003, 09:02 AM
Need tactical duct tape? It comes in a variety of cammo patterns. Black hides you better? Get some flat black duct tape also called gaffer's tape. Really specialized tapes come with black adhesive so it won't give your position away.

Ballistic duct tape? Most duct tapes use a cotton scrim for strength. You can purchase it with a polyester scrim. Its not ballistic grade but if your interested in spending money . . . . .

Duct tape AKA Kentucky Chrome-----good stuff.

Citadel99
February 15, 2003, 09:05 AM
how long before the oxygen level drops and the carbon dioxide level increases until you croke from asphyxiation?

If you have 10 square feet per person you'll have 3-4 hours of air. At least thats what an expert on Fox News said.

Mark

Redlg155
February 15, 2003, 02:25 PM
If you have 10 square feet per person you'll have 3-4 hours of air. At least thats what an expert on Fox News said.

I'm sure that expert on Fox wouldn't offer to seal himself into a 10 foor square cardboard box to test his theory! :eek: I know that my SCUBA tanks have to contain more than that. Now Platstic sealed suits with SCUBA tanks would make more sense than some silly duct tape idea. Either that or use a SCUBA tank to provide positive air pressure.

At the last gunshow we had one of the ammo vendors attempting to increase ammo sales by speculating that foreign countries will decrease the amount of ammo surplus ammo sold for importation due to fears that they might need it for home defense. It seemed to be working pretty well because I saw a bunch of folks walking out with extra battlepacks of ammo.

Good Shooting
RED

goon
February 16, 2003, 12:38 AM
I know that duct tape can fix almost anything, but this is a bit much.
Maybe we should all go together and invest in buying a large supply of some cleaning solvents. When all of these people wake up in a month or so, they are gonna want to get that sticky duct tape residue off of their stuff.

NIGHTWATCH
February 16, 2003, 12:23 PM
The lesson will be taught once again. Just as it was on 911. Those who are prepared will be prepared. And those who are not will struggle in vain to play catchup. The only good thing that comes from this is...FORCED CONVERSION! :D

I love to see anti's wetting their pants and eating their hats, pressed up against the window of a local gunshop. :neener:

goon
February 16, 2003, 01:32 PM
"I love to see anti's wetting their pants and eating their hats, pressed up against the window of a local gunshop."

I saw one the other day.
Long hair, leather jacket but he looked more like a science teacher than a biker.
Kinda like that guy you imagine running through a field catching butterflies...

Anyhow, he came in to the shop the I frequent most and wanted to buy a used bolt action, I think it was an '06. I immediately knew that he had to be new to this, because he had no idea that he needed a gov't. ID to buy a gun. He held the rifle kinda meekly, like he thought it would bite him. I laughed to myself a little, and went on watching the demo CD they were showing me.
He ended up leaving, because he hadn't brought his driver's license. I hope he came back, because one more guy with a gun is one more on our side.

Monkeyleg
February 16, 2003, 06:50 PM
Waitone, you're right about gaffer tape. The best stuff out there. Since this is going to be a long and protracted "war on terror," gaffer tape's the way to go. Three strips of it held on the tail light assembly on my old beater truck for three years!

At $18 a roll, it's the best "tactical" bargain on the market.

Shweboner
February 18, 2003, 02:38 AM
I have taken to telling my customers NOT to buy several rolls of tape and plastic... I need to keep some on hand for people who are actualy going to use it.

Besides I seriously doubt that terrorists will have the capability to deliver an attack that will envelope whole neighborhoods , in which case the plastic might help... So I tell them that if it does happen, they'll most likely get a good dose at the mall, or in the theatre, etc. Therefore, wrapping your home in a bubble will do nothing but provide a false sense of security.

~Brian

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