Exactly how NOT to DRAW


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45R
June 19, 2004, 12:38 AM
An example on how not to draw. Click HERE (http://www.hs2000talk.com/viewtopic.php?t=11456)

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pax
June 19, 2004, 12:41 AM
If he's re-holstering, that's the best place for his thumb to be. Stops the slide from getting knocked out of battery when the gun is placed in the holster.

If the trigger finger is where it appears to be, that's another thing. :banghead:

pax

Ukraine Train
June 19, 2004, 12:41 AM
Hey! That's me!



j/k
maybe he wants a broken thumb and a hole in his foot?

chevrofreak
June 19, 2004, 05:48 AM
Ukraine Train, firing a Glock or XD or some other locked breech striker fired handgun like that wouldnt break your thumb, provided you used a decent amount of force on the back of the slide.

hksw
June 19, 2004, 08:38 AM
Looks to me like he's just in the process of bringing the gun (and weak hand) up to eye level to shoot in a quick manner. The trigger finger does not look like it is on the trigger but in the process of being put on it during raising the gun. Not entirely sure as the front of the trigger area and finger tip is partially obscured.The grip is a little loose possibly due to whereever he had the gun held when drawn could have been to close to the body to allow him to get a quick wraparound grip on the frame.

Doesn't look bad too me with this one picture. Have to see any other pics to be sure if he is doing anything unsafe.

Benjamin
June 19, 2004, 10:44 AM
I haven't seen the other thread, but that doesn't look like a draw.

No belt loops - no belt - no holster.

Jogging shorts won't support a paddle holster.

Matt G
June 19, 2004, 12:16 PM
I can't stress this enough: When at the range, at home, or anywhere:

DON'T LET GUNS *DANGLE*!!!!

This is how people get shot in the toe. Take a firm grip on the pistol, and, if carrying it, POINT it in a safe direction.

If drawing, POINT it at your target, the second you clear leather.

When holding a pistol, have purpose with it. Otherwise, reholster, recase it, or PUT IT DOWN!.



Yes, I know I'm preaching to the choir, here, but it's always worthwhile to recite some of these important credos.

'Smatter of fact, let's re-read The Four Rules (http://www.thefiringline.com/Misc/safetyrules.html) of firearms safety. It's worth it.

--Matt

mfree
June 19, 2004, 12:52 PM
If you blow the gamma on the picture, you can see two things.

1. His finger is definitely inside the trigger guard (BAD) but off the trigger and against the front of the guard.

2. The gun isn't dangling... the flesh of his palm is markedly compressed and his fingers are visibly squeezed... he's got a strong grip on the gun itself, just not with the thumb. If it were anything but a Glock/polymer striker DA I'd say he was going for the safety.... which he might be, subconsciously.

Skunkabilly
June 19, 2004, 01:26 PM
I think he's working on the prerequisites before filing that handicap parking placard application :D

Treylis
June 19, 2004, 02:05 PM
I think he's working on the prerequisites before filing that handicap parking placard application

Also committing a fashion crime. ;-)

hksw
June 19, 2004, 06:02 PM
I'm thinking his shorts may have a drawstring, enough to hold up a holster of some type or maybe even carry Mexican.

kernal_panic
June 19, 2004, 09:52 PM
i wanna know what forum this was posted on. the guy is a total buffon.

1. finger on the trigger!
2. muzzle NOT pointed in a safe direction (its pointing at his toe!)
3. the thumb DOES NOT belong on the back of the slide
4. he's going to shoot someone because he's going to take a hot one down that wife beater he's wearing and do the hot one in shirt dance.

El Tejon
June 19, 2004, 10:09 PM
kernal, if he's drawing:

1. his stance sucks;
2. he's bowling the gun, not in #2 where it should be;
3. he's got his finger on the trigger before the sights are on;
4. call him stumpy, he's got his support hand chasing the pistol;
5. his head is down;
6. he's doing the "Yeehaw flip up", sort of a reverse Zebco, pistol at ready or back at #2 or, put the bloody thing away;
7. inter alia, ad naseum.

However, he's got a gun and at least he's trying. I just hope no one is emulating this.:uhoh:

atek3
June 20, 2004, 12:33 AM
who is this tool?

ScottS
June 20, 2004, 08:02 AM
Well, there are two positive things:

1. He's wearing eye/ear protection
2. His undershorts aren't sticking out of his shorts.

Gotta look for the pluses where you can find them.

Scott

Matt G
June 20, 2004, 12:46 PM
Please be nice, now.

The guy's making some mechanical errors (and a fashion crime), but there's no reason to be rude.

El Tejon makes some excellent points.

Also, we must appreciate that the boy is:
wearing ear and eye protection.
"practicing."

BluesBear
June 20, 2004, 01:23 PM
It plainly says "Drawing and shooting from an imaginary holster."

Let's hope it's an imaginary gun so he doesn't blow an realistic hole in his foot.

iamhistory
June 21, 2004, 12:22 PM
hmmmmmmmm........................toothpick hanging out of his mouth and a wife beater on during shooting practice. Says something about his attitude & personality don't you think? Maybe also explains a little about the mentality and therefore the lack of firearms skills.

I agree w/ atek 3................he is a tool.

Daniel T
June 21, 2004, 12:32 PM
Says something about his attitude & personality don't you think?

Not particularly, but it says plenty about people who assume things about other people based on a casual observance of a picture that could have been taken under a huge variety of circumstances.

It's hard to see exactly where his finger is in relation to the trigger because you can't see the fingertip. His thumb is not in a good spot though. I like the fact that he is wearing saftey glasses and hearing protection.

Overall, it rates a "Eh."

iamhistory
June 21, 2004, 04:20 PM
Not particularly, but it says plenty about people who assume things about other people based on a casual observance of a picture that could have been taken under a huge variety of circumstances

Really? I guess you have all the answers then EH Daniel? If you can't pick up several things from this pic and rather believe that myself and a number of other people from various backgrounds and experience are simply making assumptions then you need to think twice before you YOURSELF start making assumptions about people making assumptions.

I believe a lot can be garnered from first impressions......albeit you have a point that the pic could have been taken under a variety of circumstances. Whatever these circumstances may be, I cannot speculate.........but at best this character is practicing what APPEARS to be unsafe gun handling with a caption that describes that he is "drawing and shooting from an imaginary holster". You can stick up for him if you want, but the bare bones for me is I wouldn't want to be around him.

A picture is worth a thousand words is most cases. In this case, I choose to judge from the pics and not your theory. Go to the link and look at all the pics.........the kid looks as though he is an inexperienced youngster who's more interested in looking cool with his firearm than he is in proper technique and safety. It doesn't matter then what the actual truth is........the picture gives people an impression and is on the internet for all to see, so that IS the truth at this particular moment. Even his own brother attests to the fact that the guy had his finger on the trigger when he shouldn't have several other times throughout the day! In later pics the brother and apparent owner of the pistol is flashing signs, has a shirt on his head and shorts down towards his crotch with underwear sticking out. I'm damn surprised that they didn't have their XD pointing sideways in some of those pics. (yo dog.......that'd be gangsta)

These two brothers may very well be good down home fellas and not punks. I am sure they are good guys. However, at best these pics tell others that for firearms skills and safety these two guys are an example of the blind leading the blind.

They ought to get some training before they start yucking it up for the camera. As far as the wife beater and toothpick........I retract that statment. He could simply be hot and have just eaten a bag of popcorn. I wouldn't want to assume.

sturmruger
June 21, 2004, 04:31 PM
The pics of these guys over on www.xdtalk.com are just showing us a few new guys. You can pick apart their stance, how they draw, and their camera angles all you want, but I wouldn't label them stupid just because no one ever taught them the correct way to handle a gun. I think 7-8 years ago we could have said the same thing about me. I have learned a lot hanging out online and in the training I have taken. Cut them some slack.

macavada
June 21, 2004, 10:41 PM
I work for the gov't, however, my job doesn't require me to be armed. Once, while in training at a federal installation, I met a criminal investigator, and we got to talking about guns, practicing a draw, etc. I let him know I had an interest in firearms, and he didn't look at me like I was a weirdo or anything.

Anyway, he got to talking about the training he got we he started working for the federal government. He said that all the carry pieces he's ever had were DAO guns. He said that he was taught in range practice to pull the gun, and start pulling the trigger as the gun was making its way out of the holster. As it is rising, pressure on the trigger is increasing, to the point where once the sights and target are acquire, the trigger is ready to break. He said that the guns he was used to training with had about a 14lb break. That is what his instructors were teaching. He said that once he tried a collegue's gun that had had some trigger work. He said it had been lightened to about 7 lbs. When he tried it using the technique he was taught, it was going off early and hitting low. No duh!

Anyone heard anything remotely like this before? I thought it was pretty scarry.

BluesBear
June 22, 2004, 02:31 AM
Some of you make me SICK! :barf:

I'm from the South where it gets rather hot and muggy in the summer. Many people wear a undershirt in hot weather when dressed casually.
In fact when a woman wears the exact same shirt it magically becomes a tank top. As a matter of fact if this same shirt had been in any colour except white then it would also commonly be called a tank top.

I have vivid memories as well as many photographs of my late Father wearing just such a shirt around the house. That's the same man who taught me how to appreciate and respect firearms. He taugh me how to shoot, open a door for a lady and to say sir and ma'am as a sign of respect. He took me to church for the first time and was there for every silly band concert in High School.

He is also the one who instilled in me the belief that only a gutless puke hits a woman.

I will remember until the day I die that weekday afternoon in the summer of 1963 that Everlyn, a good friend of my Mother, came over to the house in tears because her no good a-hole husband, Red, had punched her around one time too many. I also remember that I was sent out into the back yard to play. It was shortly thereafter when Red pulled up into the driveway.
My father calmly walked out the side toward the driveway and told Red to "Stop right there."
Red yelled, "Get out of my way old man" (Dad was 53, 5'8 and 155 pounds, but he was fit, Red was around 30) It was then I noticed the 4 digit serial number Colt Lightweight Commander in my Dad's hand, just hanging at his side, pointing at the ground. What really suprised me is that it was cocked!
Red yelled, "I've come for my wife."
My father calmly yet with a strength in his voice i had never heard before said to him, No you're not. You will stand right where you are until the police get here. And if you move one inch I'll shoot you."
I heard a wailing of a "Q" in the distance as I watch Red turn to stone. He truely didn't move a muscle. Except to swallow hard a few times and sweat.
The sound of flying grave as two Jefferson County police cars slide sto a stop in the driveway startled me but Red still didn't budge. He didn't move until they were finished putting handcuffs on him. The Colt Cobra they took out of Red's pocket was later given to my parents as a gift from Evelyn. She got it as well as everything else in the divorce.
As they led Red away he kept saying, He pulled a gun on me! He had a .45! He pulled a .45 on me!"
As the put him in the car the officer said, "You've mighty damn lucky he didn't kill you. He would have ya'know"
That day I learned that policemen cuss. I had never heard a policeman cuss before.
But more importantly I learned a lot about my Dad that day.


Oh by the way, Red was wearing a shirt & tie and my dad was wearing an undershirt.


So the next time you want to show your ignorance and narrow mindedness go ahead and call it a "wife-beater". Be proud of yourself, let the world know. As for me I've already learned enough from this thread. :barf:





By the way, it appears his finger was in the trigger guard.
But it also appears to be away from the trigger.
But I guess some of you were too busy being the fashion police to really care.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=1075052

ScottS
June 22, 2004, 06:33 AM
BluesBear's first post:It plainly says "Drawing and shooting from an imaginary holster."

Let's hope it's an imaginary gun so he doesn't blow an realistic hole in his foot.Clear disapproval of this guy's gun handling, and predicting the potential ND everyone else see's.

BluesBear's second post:By the way, it appears his finger was in the trigger guard.
But it also appears to be away from the trigger.
But I guess some of you were too busy being the fashion police to really care.Clearly defending this guy's gun handling, and casting aspersions on those who were critiquing it.

???

Scott

c_yeager
June 22, 2004, 06:56 AM
Based on the enlarged picture it also appears that his thumb is actually high and alongside the slide rather than behind it. Maybe he learned to shoot with 1911's and is trying used to having a "high thumb".

BluesBear
June 22, 2004, 09:13 AM
ScottS opined;
Clearly defending this guy's gun handling, and casting aspersions on those who were critiquing it.
No Scott, I was not beong calumnious in the least. I was just letting some folks know where I stand.
The shooting form in that photo is bad. VERY bad. So lets critique him on what he was DOING and not on what he was WEARING. Okay?

My point was that for those who were trying to figure out if his finger was or was not on the trigger that it takes all of what, 15 seconds, to enlarge it and LOOK! But Noooooooo. Some people wanted to judge him based on what he was wearing and how he looked. And that's not very High Road now is it?

He was wearing eye protection, ear protection and comfortable clothes. Good for him.

And still I hope he doesn't shoot himself in the foot because that finger doesn't belong in the trigger guard until he's ready to fire.
And I hope he doesn't swallow that toothpick either but I sure as heck ain't gonna judge him because of it.
It appears that he is new to shooting and still learning. I only mentioned the position of his finger in the triggerguard because, just like you said, we all
Gotta look for the pluses where you can find them.Perhaps someone should clarify for him that the statment "finger away from the trigger" doesn't mean, somewhere else in the triggerguard.

All of us here should be encouraging young people to get positively involved with firearms and shooting sports. Not lampooning them because of their mode of dress.

Why should it matter to any of us what someone wears to the range as long as it's safe?

After all John Kerry doesn't care what anybody wears into the voting booth.

ScottS
June 22, 2004, 09:54 AM
No Scott, I was not being calumnious in the least. Umm...just a second...

...calque
...caltrop
...claumet
...Calumet
...Calumet City
...caluminate


...let me get back to you...

Scott

Don Gwinn
June 22, 2004, 11:17 AM
Try "calumny."

Graystar
June 22, 2004, 01:20 PM
??? It's called freedom of expression. BTW, that's a right.

MrAcheson
June 22, 2004, 02:00 PM
It's called freedom of expression. BTW, that's a right.
Freedom of expression != Freedom from criticism

In fact:

Freedom of expression == Freedom to criticize.

Graystar
June 22, 2004, 03:10 PM
Freedom of expression != Freedom from criticism

In fact:

Freedom of expression == Freedom to criticize. You don't know what you're talking about! ;) :p :D

iamhistory
June 23, 2004, 01:01 AM
Bluesbear.........you share WAY too much and by the sounds of it.......you may need to seek professional help.

The story of your Pop in 1963 Kentucky and his mode of dress compared to 2004 pop culture, everyone wanna be gangsta, knuckleheads has no relation in my opinion. So therefore you did an awful lot of venting for nothing. Men like your Pop command respect no matter what they wear. "Men" like this apparent knucklehead can't command respect no matter what they wear. It's all simply relative.

Calm down.....please.

P.S..........how the h### do you know whether my statments are examples of calumny when you don't even know the guy???????

pax
June 23, 2004, 01:11 AM
That's enough.

pax

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