[seldomseen]

I purchased a new CZ pistol this week and while going through the case that it came in, I discovered under the foam lining, a small envelope with a type written sticker on it that shows the make, model, caliber, serial number, gun type, and collector. It also has a signature line complete with ink written signature and the date on it. Of course inside this envelope is a fired shell casing. The shipping box that it arrived in has a sticker on one end that says New York compliant. I am quite sure that this is part of the ballistic fingerprinting that we have heard so much about recently. My question is do I need to keep this casing? My first reaction was to throw it away, but after thinking about it for a day or so, I thought that I should get opinions from gunowners that may be more informed about ballistic fingerprinting. One person that I talked to today, told me that I should throw it away and replace the barrel on the gun. Is this necessary? Seems a little drastic considering I haven't even fired the pistol yet. Another told me not to send the warranty card in, as this will match a name and address to the serial number and the shell casing that the manufacturer kept. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[riverdog]

I toss the aluminum Blazer cases and put the brass cases in my can for brass to be reloaded.

[Nightcrawler]

Some gun companies are doing this; they have to in order for their pistols to be sold in certain states, like New York, and Maryland, I believe.

[BamBam]

Hmmmm.......
First thing I'd do would be to lap the barrel.

[griz]

Keep the case for reloading and throw away the envelope.:D

Like Nightcrawler said, they have to include the case for sale in NY and Maryland. The chain of evidence rules make me wonder how useful that case would be in a real trial.

[Mauserlady]

We get them with all ours purchased here in Cali also. I keep em as memento's of the first fired from my newest purchase. :D Must be a girl thang...

[MikeK]

Reload it or toss it and be thankful you don't live in a state like MD where they're filed at a cost of over $5 million so far. Number of crimes solved as a result - ZERO. Now, with the good chief Moose's endorsement they want to do this for long guns also.

[BlackArrow]

WWW.howtogetaroundanotherstupidlaw.com Some enterprising individual will sell you all you need to defeat another STUPID FEEL GOOD LAW. That's 21,310 gunlaws and counting:cuss: :cuss: :cuss: Sheeple...... ba, ba.

[DeputyVaughn]

First thing I would do is a little filing on the extractor till it didn't match the marks on the shell provided. Then maybe a little work on the chamber with some fine emory cloth (just enough to change the markings). After making sure the fired cartridges didn't match the one provided for comparison, I'd distroy the provided cartridge so it couldn't be used against me in the future. A little fire lapping of the barrel and the job is done. As far as I can tell none of this is forbidden in the laws of states that require balistic fingerprinting unless it is done to distroy evidence of a crime committed or to be committed. Heck I usually tune the extractor of a semi-auto early in the life of a gun anyway to improve function and reliability.

Then again I might just throw the cartridge away and forget all about it. Hard to say when you don't live in a state that has such stupid laws.

Scott

[Hkmp5sd]

I'd go to the range and pick up two cartridge cases off the ground (one each from different guns) and replace the ones in the envelope. I'd then save them and if your state ever passes that stupid law, I'd duly turn in the envelope to be entered into the database.

[ed dixon]

Don't think they'd want that case after the fact. Might as well just promise --real hard-- that you're a good guy.

[Jack19]

Hkmp5sd


:D :D :D :evil: :D :D :D hahahahahahahaha, excellent idea

[rick458]

If you practice enough like you should you will change the wear/mark pattern on the breech face, extractor, ejector, and chamber will change over time. Only the case from the pistol at the time the crime occurred would have relavent markings. Guns are like people they change with age. As for picking up somebody else's case and kep it for turning in why on earth would you want HOMEY's gangsta style case . I KNOW my firearms have not been used in a crime . Food for thought.

[Ed Straker]

Used to be, some guns came with a target from the factory test-fire...

[Kahr carrier]

I wouldnt worry about it I would either throw it away or keep it and just put it away with the gun box and literature.:)

[WhoKnowsWho]

My Sig 225 came with the test fire target!

I kept the shell casing with my Charles Daly 1911, I'll probably reload it once I get my setup done.

[ajacobs]

You don't need to do any filing or changing or worrying about turning in the waranty card. IF you have the casings they are not on record anywhere. They keep them in those 2 states and then register them into the computer and save the cases. NO ONE HAS YOUR FIGERPRINT ON FILE IF YOU HAVE THE CASES. So don't worry.

[JerryN]

You should save the case. If you ever use that gun to commit a crime, mail the case to your state police headquarters with an explaination of the crime. They will bring the case to your house, compare it to your gun, and if they match, they will arrest you for said crime.

See how helpful BF can be? :evil:

[bogie]

I agree - you don't need to do ANYTHING to change the Ballistic Tireprinting of the piece, other than shooting it a few hundred times (doh!). I suggest that you send the brass, along with a letter of explanation about why it doesn't work, to your congresscritter.

[griz]

A simple question for the guys who are suggesting the first thing you should do when you find that case is to try and alter the "ballistic fingerprint" (I’m already getting tired of this misleading term) of the gun.

Why? What is the purpose of changing it for a law abiding gun owner?

[Kaylee]

Why? What is the purpose of changing it for a law abiding gun owner?

Principle.

[ajacobs]

I think you all are missing the point, You are correct in that you can certainly do all of those things to change the fingerprint but he doesn't have to as his was not scanned into the computer becuase he does not live in the two offending states and he has his brass. Secondly I would not recomend sending handgun brass to you congress men givin x-ray machines and explosive detecting machines surely in their mailrooms by now.

[Chipperman]

Drill through the web of the case and wear it around your neck as a pendant.

The cops will be able to see the case when you walk by. They can then say, "Hey Fred, don't the marks on that case match the ones from that shooting last Friday?"
"Gee willakers Charlie, you're right!"
"Lets haul 'em in for booking, Fred."

See how helpful this is? :neener:

[45R]

Just playing devils advocate, but why would a law abidding citizen worry about BF?

[buford1]

I use them for reloading, but what really upsets me Is they used 45 colt in my casull, 38 sp in my 357, 44 sp in my 44 mag.:cuss:

[Hkmp5sd]

Just playing devils advocate, but why would a law abidding citizen worry about BF?

Why would a law abiding citizen worry about a DNA database?
Why would a law abiding citizen worry about a national ID card?
Why would a law abiding citizen worry about strip searches at airports?
Why would a law abiding citizen worry about a database listing every item you ever purchased?
Why would a law abiding citizen worry about the FBI monitoring the books you read at the library?
Why would a law abiding citizen worry about complete firearm registration?
Why would a law abiding citizen own a car that can exceed 75 MPH?

[Carlos Cabeza]

I get that all the time, "Why does Mr. Joe Lawabiding citizen need to worry. You have nothing to hide do you????? This comes from the whipped individuals that are programmed to think the way their wives tell them to. I'm not being discriminatory, just that I find women more difficult to rationalize with. ANYTHING Oprah says is LAW. It must be, look at how rich, beloved she is. A woman that is pro 2nd is definitely the minority. That being said........LUCKY ME ! and a few other guys, you know who you are.
Tell her on the 14th !

[riverdog]

On the 14th we'll go to the range and then out for Sushi. Chocolate? Dead flowers? Spend the money on trigger time for your loved ones. It's for the children dontcha know :)

[Bainx]

Hey, I got an idea! Sell the casing and have it used as evidence against you in the future!;)

[WonderNine]

Just playing devils advocate, but why would a law abidding citizen worry about BF?

LoL!

[Kobun]

When the case in question is still with the gun, in your hands, why do anything?
Obviously the gov don't have it then...

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=43854

[DeputyVaughn]

Who's to say they didn't fire the gun twice and keep one shell?

Scott

[XLMiguel]

Here's what'cha do:
1. Get a small flower pot (preferably green), a little chunk of styrofoam, a twig, and a small length of red ribbon.
2. Place the styrofoam in the pot.
3. Stick the twig in the styrofoam and tie the red ribbon in a bow around the base of the twig.
4, Place the shell casing on the top of the twig.
You are now prepared to gift your true love on the First Day of Christmas, 2003, with a Cartridge in a Bare Tree :D

The above was my lame attempt to be as stupid as the notion of 'ballistic fingerprinting'.

But seriously, if you reload, hang on to it; if not, give it to someone who does or recycle it. No need to mess with your new toy.

[riverdog]

Someone already said it, but the chain of custody is not a moot point. Who's to say the casings that came with your pistol are even from your pistol. Take Glock's word for it? I'm sure they're very careful, but ...

So you turn in the brass when you register the gun and then after shooting a few hundred rounds, you send it to your favorite gunsmith to get tuned up. It comes back from the 'smith with a new match barrel and bushing to help the accuracy issues, a new extractor and modified ejector to help ejection and polished internals just to make it run better. You already tossed the factory mags and replaced them with better aftermarket -- or maybe you dropped the factory 10 rounders in your excess drawer and replaced them with high-caps that you've had since before the ban ;) Regardless, whether or not the police have the brass or it's in a national database somewhere (or the manufacturer's internal proprietary database), the data no longer corresponds to your pistol.

I've done the above for the reasons I gave and I didn't need any incentive other than to make the pistol shoot better for me.

[redneck]

Thats exactly why you shouldn't cave in and say who cares about the BF issue. Its another absolutely worthless peice of legislation.
You know very well that theres very little chance of it being a match to your gun after some use, and no chance of it being a match after customizing it. So why have it?
People supporting legislation that they don't think will affect them is the reason we are where we are today. Look at the hunting crowd that doesn't understand RKBA because "you don't need anything but an over an under and they'll never take those away"


Would I go out of my way and do work on the gun I hadn't planned because of it? No. But then any excuse to make your gun even cooler is a good one ;)

[bigkhan]

To hell with the casings. How do you know that they don't have the actual shells that were fired for balistic matching. change the barrel!:fire:

[geekWithA.45]

IIRC, the MD State Police wrote up a report indicating that after N years, the ballistic database did not help solve a single crime, at the cost of X bazillion dollars, and recommended that the state stop wasting the police's time & the taxpayer's money.

[Animal Mother]

Zombie Thread Alert! Quick, aim for the head!

[brboyer]

Almost eight years? Must be some kind of a record!

[Rail Driver]

To hell with the casings. How do you know that they don't have the actual shells that were fired for balistic matching. change the barrel!

FWIW, it's quite obvious that they don't have the actual shells that were fired for ballistic matching because they're in the little yellow envelope inside the pistol's case... They likely fired the bullets into ballistic gel, however, in order to recover them for ballistic fingerprinting (which has been previously mentioned is almost completely unreliable if the gun owner shoots even 50 rounds a month or customizes their gun).

[mbopp]

In NY it's called CoBIS. All new handguns must have a certified (FFL class7) fired case supplied to the NY State Police. In the 10 years it's been law an estimated $40 million plus has been spent and 300,000 guns registered. Two cases have been matched, but neither resulted in an arrest let alone conviction. And nobody told the lawmakers that revolvers don't leave cases behind.
CoBIS can be defeated by changing the barrel, extractor, and firing pin and polishing the bolt face to remove the machining marks. And it's been shown that firing as little as 50 rounds changes the fired case characteristics from a new gun. A truly useless law.

[TexasRifleman]

To hell with the casings. How do you know that they don't have the actual shells that were fired for balistic matching. change the barrel!

Resurrected after 8 years for this :)

Nah...