.380 Glock 25 illegal for US market


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WhiteKnight
June 20, 2004, 03:11 PM
Guys I recently found out that Glock offers a model G25 in .380 that parallels the dimensions of the Glock 19. However this pistol is "not availible for the US market."

Why?

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Jim March
June 20, 2004, 03:27 PM
Because it doesn't have enough "sporting features" :barf: to make the GCA68 "sporting use test" criteria.

Neither does the G19, really, which is why they put crappy plastic adjustable rear sights on in Austria, ship 'em into the US that way, then swap sights here. Somewhere in the US is this BIG pile of disgusting rear Glock sights nobody has ever seen :scrutiny:.

Even with that trick, the 380 version won't make the grade. Smaller calibers were declared "more evil" in the GCA68 legislation :barf:.

Old Fuff
June 20, 2004, 03:27 PM
The 1968 GCA requires that any pistol that's imported must have certain fearures regarding size, safeties, "target" grips, "target (serrated or checkered) trigger. etc. The regulation was largely drawn around the Walther model PP. The Golck design, while an excellent one doesn't have enough of these features to make the BATF&E happy. All this is of course, "for the children ..."

Larger Glock pistols, because of their size and chambering (9mm and larger) are O.K.

GEM
June 20, 2004, 04:02 PM
It's a great example of the stupidity of the rules. We can get a gun of exactly the same dimensions in 357 Sig in a much better round. However, we are made safe from 380s!!

Wonder if GWB understands this? Nah.

CleverNickname
June 20, 2004, 04:59 PM
Also, while the Glock 25 and 28 are not legal for civilian import, they can be imported for sale to law enforcement agencies. (Surprise, surpise.) Also, from what I understand of the law, there's nothing preventing an agency from reselling them to a private citizen later.

denfoote
June 20, 2004, 05:26 PM
There is also the "well Duh" factor.
Why introduce internal competition from a smaller caliber when your customers can already purchase the bigger one!!!

The G25 is also a straight blowback design. This exacerbates the import point problem!! I'm sure Glock could redesign the G25 to be a locked breach gun, but why bother!!!

pauli
June 20, 2004, 05:27 PM
the question is, why would one WANT a glock in .380, particularly if it is the same size as the 19.

denfoote
June 20, 2004, 05:37 PM
the question is, why would one WANT a glock in .380, particularly if it is the same size as the 19.


See above!!!

Jim March
June 20, 2004, 07:44 PM
For older folks who can't deal with recoil due to physical hardships, a 380 on a full frame might be a Godsend.

Peter M. Eick
June 20, 2004, 07:49 PM
Lets not bad mouth locked breech 380's. My little colt gov 380 is one of the best little centerfires to teach someone with because the locked breech takes the recoil down to pussycat levels. Lets be frank here, a hot 380 load out of a PPK/S in straight blowback mode can be a fair amount of recoil for a new shooter.

Even with my intrinsic dislike of plastic guns, if glock made a locked breech 380, I would buy one just for training purposes.

inventory0297
June 20, 2004, 08:36 PM
Here is the ATF import points scheme, pretty stupid if you ask me.

CHARATERISTIC POINTS

Overall Length: for each 1/4" over 6" 1

Forged Steel Frame 15

Forged HTS Alloy Frame 20

Unloaded Weight w/mag (per ounce) 1

.22 Short & .25 Auto 0

.22 LR - .380 Auto 3

9mm Parabellum & over 10

Locked Breech Mechanism 5

Loaded Chamber Indicator 5

Grip Safety 3

Magazine Safety 5

Firing Pin Block or Lock 10

External Hammer 2

Double Action 10

Drift Adjustable Target Sight 5

Click Adjustable Sight 10

Target Grips 5

Target Trigger 2

A gun needs either 75 or 85 points to be admitted, I forget which......you can see how the 380 loses 7 points to a 9mm+ gun automatically.

mattd
June 20, 2004, 09:35 PM
More so a tariff then gun control.

Dionysusigma
June 20, 2004, 10:44 PM
Same could be said as far as registering Title II weaponry.

BluesBear
June 21, 2004, 03:22 AM
Since it's not a locked breech it loses 12 points.

Heraclitus
June 21, 2004, 08:58 AM
Interesting. Legally speaking, how is the Glock 25 different from other blow-backs, such as the PPK, P232, Cheetah, Makarov and Bersa? And wouldn't it be easy for Glock to modify the pistol in other ways to comply with some silly rule if it meant mo' moolah for them?

Never mind. With 65% of the market for Glocks going to U.S. law enforcement (of which half are G-22s), they probably don't need the extra dough. :scrutiny:

WhiteKnight
June 21, 2004, 09:09 AM
The 1968 GCA requires that any pistol that's imported must have certain fearures regarding size, safeties, "target" grips, "target (serrated or checkered) trigger. etc. The regulation was largely drawn around the Walther model PP.

I honestly didn't know that. Thanks!



Also, while the Glock 25 and 28 are not legal for civilian import, they can be imported for sale to law enforcement agencies. (Surprise, surpise.) Also, from what I understand of the law, there's nothing preventing an agency from reselling them to a private citizen later.

In the Glock Annual catalog from where I got this information, for the subcompact Glock (G28) is "only availible for law enforcement" while the compact (G25) is "not availible for the US market."

mattd
June 21, 2004, 12:58 PM
Since it's not a locked breech it loses 12 points.

I think it would be pointless to have a lock breech in any gun with power less than a .380 because blowbacks are more reliable and accurate by nature of their simple designs.

GigaBuist
June 21, 2004, 02:48 PM
Interesting. Legally speaking, how is the Glock 25 different from other blow-backs, such as the PPK, P232, Cheetah, Makarov and Bersa?

It's made of plastic -- and it's light. That's the difference.

sturmruger
June 21, 2004, 06:27 PM
I love THR, I learn something new every day!!!

Heraclitus
June 22, 2004, 11:58 AM
Legally speaking, Gigabuist?

Daniel T
June 22, 2004, 03:41 PM
I'm not Giga, but yes Heraclitus, legally speaking. See the list posted above by inventory. A Glock automatically loses 15-20 points for having a poly frame.

NoHarmNoFAL
June 28, 2004, 04:12 PM
Why could you not just get a drop in barrel for the G-19 like you can for the .40/.357sig.? That would be kinda cool, sort of.

Zach S
June 29, 2004, 08:28 AM
Thats what I was thinking.

Graystar
June 29, 2004, 10:21 AM
Somewhere in the US is this BIG pile of disgusting rear Glock sights nobody has ever seen I bet they just ship them back to Austria when the pile gets big enough. Cheaper to reused them than to keep making new ones.

Dave T
June 29, 2004, 03:07 PM
In an earlier post someone justified the need (desire?) for a 380 the size of a 9mm by saying older people who can't handle the recoil of the 9 might use it.

Blow back actions are known for sharper recoil than a comprable size and weight gun with a locked breach action. A blow back Glock 25 isn't going to kick all that much less than a 9mm G19. It will stop less but not kick less. Not a good trade off.

Dave

mattd
June 29, 2004, 09:44 PM
why don't they just ship them without the sights?

BluesBear
June 30, 2004, 06:30 AM
bet they just ship them back to Austria when the pile gets big enough. Cheaper to reused them than to keep making new ones.
I bet it's not. I'll wager that the cost of shipping them all the way back to Austria is higher than the cost of molding new ones.why don't they just ship them without the sights? Because they need the extra points provided by having adjustable sights. Without them they'd not have enough points to be eligable for importation.

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