Have you ever met a...............................


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45R
June 21, 2004, 03:15 PM
GUN LOVING LIBERAL I

I was talking to a friend yesturday and was a little surprised when he came out of the closet and disclosed that he was a gun loving liberal. He happens to also be a regular poster at THR. Know for his love of guns and all things that go boom!

What are you experiences?

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Dorrin79
June 21, 2004, 03:45 PM
I have a friend/coworker who is a pretty hardcore liberal.

Over the course of the three years I have known him, I have 'converted' him into a gun nut (he was a standard 'hadn't really thought about it' default anti when I met him)

He's still liberal, but adamantly opposes gun control.

So such things do exist - especially in the South, methinks...

aguyindallas
June 21, 2004, 03:57 PM
I work with a liberal that is also into guns. He is not a gun lover like most of us are, but he owns a couple.

Last week in the lunchroom, he said "9-11 would not have happened if there was a democrat in office"

Well, we just quit talking about politics at that very moment because I could see it could become a pissing match really quick!

Gordon Fink
June 21, 2004, 04:13 PM
My dad is a self-described “bleeding-heart liberal” and a gun owner. He wants personal freedom but thinks the government needs to help the poor and downtrodden.

~G. Fink

BHPshooter
June 21, 2004, 04:38 PM
My dad is a self-described “bleeding-heart liberal” and a gun owner. He wants personal freedom but thinks the government needs help the poor and downtrodden.

I, a hardcore libertarian, also believe that we need to help the poor and downtrodden -- by the abolition of taxes and other BS restrictions.

Personally, I haven't met one of these rare albino pro-gun liberals, but I'm sure they exist.

Wes

ID_shooting
June 21, 2004, 04:43 PM
I work with one, archery and rifle hunter, lived in ID all his life, but dang, he also likes Kerry :barf:

axeman_g
June 21, 2004, 04:56 PM
I am a liberal, voted democrat most of the times, am an environmentalist, believe that people sometimes find themselves in the need of some help and they populace should help for the common good, and I believe that the arts should be funded somehow by the state, especially art and science museums. I have been on my share of Grateful Dead tours, worked for little money doing societies work and helped local liberal politicians win elections.

I am also a gun nut and avid 2A supporter. Politics are alot like faith to me, you dont have to go all the time and you dont have to take everything as black and white ... you just have to believe.


Axe

Treylis
June 21, 2004, 05:05 PM
I know a few hardcore liberals who are big into guns, yeah.

Poodleshooter
June 21, 2004, 05:06 PM
Most of the politically liberal gun owners that I meet are either hunters or collectors. They usually only use "certain" firearms and disdain others.

MeekandMild
June 21, 2004, 06:46 PM
My mother is one. She is about as Democrat as you can get and is a solid fan of every crackpot liberal scheme you can imagine.

But on the other hand she is pro RKBA... for white Anglo Saxon Protestants only. (Which seems to be a commoner flaw among libbies than they will admit.)

Foreign Devil
June 21, 2004, 06:58 PM
Yeah I met one in the mirror this morning

I want the government to help the poor, protect the environment, set standards for workplace safety, regulate food and medicine, provide education, reign in corporate power and generally help out when the market fails, among other things.

On the other hand gun control doesn't work and infringes on people's fundamental rights, that's enough reason to oppose it. Every liberal should be against taking away people's rights in the name of fighting crime.

Chris Pinkleton
June 21, 2004, 07:34 PM
Heck, I used to work on a left-wing paper in college. I'm much more a libertarian than a liberal, tho'.

We inherited several firearms from my dyed-in-the-wool liberal father-in-law last year. His total collection included about half a dozen long guns, and about the same number of handguns. I think about it everytime I shoot his 625, I wish we would have talked guns while he was alive. I had no idea he had such good taste until he died. :(

On the other side, my very conservative, gun owning grandfather thought all "assault weapons" should be banned. Political stereotyping often blinds folks to the reality of the views of the people around them.

Zundfolge
June 21, 2004, 07:51 PM
There's a guy I argue with on another forum who is a devout Marxist who is pretty rabidly pro gun.

MLC
June 21, 2004, 08:26 PM
While liberal on most pro-gun boards is the equivalent of the ever popular "commie" I would most likely call myself a gun loving liberal before I called myself a gun loving Republican.
I'm with Mr. Pinkleton.
Guns are the only issue that Reps and I generally agree on.

sch40
June 21, 2004, 08:29 PM
One of my good friends is a liberal nutcase AND a gun nut! He's actually my favorite shooting buddy who's normally in town.

Suprisingly, you find a few hardcore Democrats who are also pro-2nd Amendment (no, not pro-hunting like a lot of politicians, but actually pro-2nd Amendment). You can even see them if you check out DU (democraticunderground.com) -- assuming you can peruse their forums and survive :barf: ;)

sch40
June 21, 2004, 08:31 PM
To clarify my position a little, I suppose I'm a little liberal AND a gun nut. Libertarian ~= socially liberal, financially conservative

Kalos
June 21, 2004, 10:26 PM
I consider myself a rather libertarian sort of liberal (to put it another way, I sincerely hope for Tipper Gore, Joseph "Joe-Mentum" Lieberman and those like them to wake up one day and go join the correct party ;P), but a staunch liberal nevertheless on most issues--gay rights, separation of church and state, welfare, health care--you know, all the dirty words around here.

I also am at least on the verge of becoming a gun nut, if I'm not already. Most of my collection tends towards C&R stuff, because it's both what I can afford and what interests me. But I've no problem with EBRs and the like, and hope to add an AR and AK to the collection one of these days--just haven't gotten around to it yet. These old bolt actions have a hold on me. :D My basic position on the 2nd Amendment is that the emphasis should be placed on 'right of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms' not 'well-regulated militia.'

It's somewhat painful to have to go vote. Our current system isn't well suited to someone whose political feelings leave him or her standing a good few feet away from either party line--so I've little choice but to vote with whomever best represents the majority of my opinions. I'm not, however, blindly Democratic--I voted for McCain in the 2000 primary, and would happily vote him into the Presidency, given the chance.

And have no doubt--if I lived in certain states that are cursed with certain elected officials who seem to define themselves solely on the 'gun control' issue--I'd merrily vote against whoever opposed them, every time. :P

XLMiguel
June 21, 2004, 11:08 PM
As labels get looser and muddier, I don't know that the notion of 'an armed liberal' is all that incongruous. In fact, a few years ago, there used to be a pretty good site called "THe Armed LIberal" that had a lot of good stuff. Hell, even Hubert Humphrey was pro-2A, i.e. self-defense IS a basic human right. The current crop of 'Democrats' are a different issue . . .

My own politics are sufficiently schitzo that I think/hope I defy categorization and key among the reasons I own guns is that I won't countence either right or left wing wankers inflicting their crappy little world views on me (if push comes to shooting). God bless America.

mfree
June 22, 2004, 10:07 AM
I'm a firm believer in "leave people alone if they aren't hurting anyone or anything" which these days makes me a quasi-liberal.

But, you can have my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead hands :evil:

The bill of rights is just that, you either support them all or you don't support them at all.

trapperjohn
June 22, 2004, 12:19 PM
they would be rare if people were consistant in their philosophies. But, since when are all people consistant.

Mikul
June 22, 2004, 12:26 PM
But, since when are all people consistant.

Only on Star Trek episodes.

sturmruger
June 22, 2004, 02:29 PM
I met this one girl who was a HUGE Nader supporter, and she was fiercely liberal on most social issues except when it came to gun control. She said that individuals need to be able to bear arms in case they ever needed to over throw the goverment!!:what: I could't believe what I was hearing. this girl is one of the most liberal people I have ever met, but she a huge RKBA supporter. I guess you just can't stereotype people.

Jim Washburn
June 22, 2004, 04:11 PM
They would be common, if people were consistent in their philosophies. But, since when are all people consistent?

Sam Adams
June 22, 2004, 04:35 PM
I met this one girl who was a HUGE Nader supporter, and she was fiercely liberal on most social issues except when it came to gun control. She said that individuals need to be able to bear arms in case they ever needed to over throw the goverment!!

Maybe this attitude can be used to the advantage of the RKBA. Every time one of us talks to a barking moonbat liberal who's also anti-gun (i.e. about 99% of them), we should ask them what would happen if Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft & Co. were to declare martial law and start rounding up political opponents. That, to me, is the one thing that would get the moonbats to start thinking the right way about the most important of our civil liberties. Even if we can't make free-market libertarians out of them, at least we can take some of the heat off of ourselves.

Foreign Devil
June 22, 2004, 04:41 PM
Egg-sactly!

In fact the liberal Hubert Humphrey once said:

"Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms. This is not to say that firearms should not be very carefully used, and that definite safety rules of precaution should not be taught and enforced. But the right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, and one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible."

And note to John Kerry: He wasn't talking about hunting ducks. He was talking about hunting tyrants.

All your political base are belong to us . . .

Plinkerton
June 22, 2004, 05:51 PM
I think I feel a lot like Axeman. I have always loved guns, knives, bombs, and any other destructive thing, but am definitely not a conservative, or a republican. (I don't really like Kerry though... :scrutiny: )

Kalos
June 22, 2004, 06:31 PM
I met this one girl who was a HUGE Nader supporter, and she was fiercely liberal on most social issues except when it came to gun control. She said that individuals need to be able to bear arms in case they ever needed to over throw the goverment!

That -is- one of the big reasons, if not -the- big reason the founders put the 2nd in there, or it would seem to be so far as one can infer from their other writings. It's a shame no one thought to take down a complete transcript of the debate that must've went on when the bill of rights was proposed. :)

Frohickey
June 22, 2004, 06:34 PM
My dad is a self-described “bleeding-heart liberal” and a gun owner. He wants personal freedom but thinks the government needs to help the poor and downtrodden.


Wouldn't it be better if the poor and downtrodden are helped by people like your dad instead? Everytime government takes a dollar, it can't possibly use that dollar to help anyone, maybe 75 cents goes to the poor.

entropy
June 23, 2004, 03:02 AM
That Humphrey was pro2A, and indeed for the reason that it is the last option 'reset' button concerning government, is not offset by his central invovlment in the Johnson 'Great Society', that is Big Daddy Welfare. It's no coincedence that Minneapolis is known as 'Moneyapolis' to generations of welfare recipients. Of course, if virtually everybody's on the dole, or working for the Gov't. , who is there to rise up and why would they? It would take them away from their bread and circuses.
That being said, I would describe my own politics as Ralph Nader meets Barry Goldwater.:confused: My boss at work is quite liberal, but owns lots of guns. Not too concerned about 2A, thinks the antis will never succeed. I've tried with Oleg's "First they came for the EBR's... " poster, but to no avail. (And he even owns several EBR's!:eek: )

RevDisk
June 23, 2004, 06:06 AM
I consider myself a cross between a liberal and libertarian on most issues. Not all. I like to generally consider myself pro-Constitution and pro-freedom. I'm definitely pro-RKBA. I'm a big supporter of civil liberties. RKBA is simply one of many. It is the insurance policy if SHTF.

Another reason why I support RKBA is purely selfish, I want to be safe and the only person responsible for providing said safety is myself.

I'm not a Bush fan because he has done his best to gut civil liberties and he's pulled a lot of shady stuff. I'm not a Kerry fan because... Damn, the [blank]'ing list would take up about ten pages of why I dislike Kerry.

I guess you can call me a gun loving liberal.

goalkeeper91
June 23, 2004, 11:16 AM
I know a couple of shooters who are staunch democrats, and fairly liberal at that. The thing is that both are realistic about firearms, self-defense, and general gun issues. Of course, I often get the same thing in reverse. People who know me assume that I am extremely conservative because fo my pro-gun beliefs, and it never fails to blow there minds when I express an opinion that is not the "official right wing concservative white male Christian opinion." Just because you believe in gun rights does not mean that you're on the far right on every issue.

ShaiVong
June 23, 2004, 12:34 PM
I had a raving lunitic liberal 'Human Relations' professor who in the course of the class divulged that she LOVES Glocks after she found out I had one for CC. She was so excited she wanted to know if I had it with me so she could hold it. Naturally I was on a college campus and so I couldnt have it with me.. She looked rather dissapointed.

She said that somebody was stalking her a few years back, and she was scared out of her mind even while behind locked doors at home. I think thats when she decided to get something for home defense. I suggested a vanilla pump 12ga.

You find them in the oddest places. ;)

Gordon Fink
June 23, 2004, 02:26 PM
Wouldn’t it be better if the poor and downtrodden are helped by people like your dad instead?

Indeed! As a business owner, my father employs about a dozen “disadvantaged minorities.” These guys work a skilled trade for good pay and benefits. If that same money went to welfare, what didn’t get “wasted” by government bureaucracy would probably serve only to keep a fraction of that many people perpetually on the dole.

My father, acting as a “greedy” capitalist, helps more people than government welfare ever could in the same situation. Capitalism has its weaknesses, but I don’t know why he can’t see its obvious superiority to socialism. At least, though, I have him to thank for helping convince me that the Democrats are the “party of the poor”—as in keeping them that way!

~G. Fink

Frohickey
June 23, 2004, 04:10 PM
I think a good book to give to your father is Capitalism and Freedom (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0226264211/qid=1088017879/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/104-6534170-9245507) by Milton Friedman.

Talks about the two topics as well as showing how socialism doesn't contribute to freedom. In the 1st or 2nd chapter, it talks about how capitalism allows the advocacy of socialism, and how socialism cannot allow the advocacy of capitalism.

Gordon Fink
June 23, 2004, 07:43 PM
Actually, I was thinking of trying to soften him up with John Stossel’s Give Me a Break. That book seems more approachable for most people—and describes how Stossel went from being a self-styled “liberal” to embracing a more libertarian philosophy.

Then maybe I can work on the heavier libertarian stuff. :evil:

~G. Fink

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