[MatthewVanitas]

Greetings. I'll say in advance: I'm sure many witty comments can be made in reference to the title. But since they're all so obvious, there's not much point, right?

In any case. I'd heard in the past that some shooters had experimented with using the middle, rather than index, finger to pull the trigger. I believe some people had toyed with a technique in which the index finger is used to instinctively point the firearm while the middle finger operates the trigger.

Has anybody had any success with this? Are there any skilled shooters who ever use this technique?

Just moderately curious. Take much care. -MV

[Hal]

You owe it to yourself to try it....

Whatcha gonna do if you get into a need to shoot,
and you got a busted finger?

That's not the best time to see how it works.

[esheato]

I'm practically ashamed to admit it, but...

...I've played around with this "technique." Mostly just goofing around and I'll tell ya what I've discovered. It sucks. For one, the pointer finger is much more dextrous and better with the fine motor skills which are required for a clean trigger break.

Try it for yourself, but I guarantee you'll come back to the traditional grip.

Ed

[SapperLeader]

Sounds Intriguing I guess. The only scenario I can imagine using my middle finger is one wheremy index fingers were disable and I had to relearn to shoot using the middle finger. Just playing around with it, I dont feel like I have nearly as much control over the movements of my middle finger in comparision to my index fingers. Plus, that only leaves two fingers to hold the grip, which doesnt seem that secure.

[Zach S]

I've practiced it on occasion. If I hurt my trigger finger in a gunfight I'm pretty much screwed because I shoot equally bad using my middle finger as I do my left hand. I can shoot my glock left handed, but I carry a 1911.

[lbmii]

I have thought about it for shooting very small autos but I am concerned about the slide pinching the index finger.

[Henry Bowman]

Jack Ruby successfully used it when killing Lee Harvey Oswald.

[Sheldon]

I think two things would be detrimental about that hold. One is that you would lose overall gripping power on the pistol due to having less fingers on the grip. Second is that I think your "pointing" finger will tend to push up against the pistol as your middle finger pulls the trigger and throw your shots off.

[Correia]

Any of you guys remember that guy back in the old days of TFL who kept going on and on and on and on about this technique. He even sold a special shelf you could mount on your grips to rest your trigger finger on. I didn't put much faith in the man's advice because he also promoted the use of Oven Cleaner as an alternative to OC spray. :p

Try this. Hold your hand out. Trigger finger extended, rest of the had clenched loosly like you would grasp your gun. Now try to pull your flip the bird finger like you are pulling a trigger. What does your top finger do? It sympathetically twitches. What happens when it is resting along the side of the gun and it pulls inwards?

[pauli]

it doesn't do a darn thing you can't train it not to do.

manual dexterity is something humans do better than just about any other creature on earth. we've got dextrous hands and huge brains controlling them. we (well, most of us) can *touch type,* for god's sake. holding one finger immobile while articulating its neighbor is strictly a matter of practicing.

getting bitten is another matter, but can also be solved on a gun by gun, hand by hand basis.

[Jim K]

The technique is sometimes used by women and others whose index fingers are not strong enough to pull the trigger. There are two drawbacks.

In a revolver, the index finger can extend beyond the front of the cylinder and gas and lead escaping at the barrel-cylinder gap can injure it.

In an auto pistol, the index finger can interfere with the moving slide and hang up the gun, injure the finger, or both.

I well remember the guy on TFL who promoted the middle finger idea. I concluded that his idea had some merit, but that his obsession took him beyond any reasonable discussion.

Jim

[Mikul]

When I hurt my trigger finger, I shot using the middle finger. It made a dandy trigger manipulator, but it took longer for me to get a good grip on the gun. The last two fingers do not give as positive of a grip all by themselves. Accuracy was at least as good as my normal finger.

[Standing Wolf]

It's a dumb idea that everybody ought to try once just to verify it's a dumb idea.

That said™, I'd love to be able to work the trigger with my least or ring finger, and use the index finger to solidify my grip. That would probably require an electronic trigger of some sort, and would add weight and bulk, and I assume it would take awhile to get the hang of controlling the trigger that way. Still...

On second thought, if there were a significant advantage in the idea, somebody would have made a pistol incorporating it by now.

[Locus]

I recall reading something about this in an article about some of the Chinese broomhandle Mauser copies. Not sure how true all of this is, but the guy was saying the troops under various warlords at the time would use a sideways middle-finger grip in close range fights. Sideways because the Mausers would eject shells straight up, and middle finger/pointing grip because it was easier to aim quickly at very close range.

I suspect it wouldn't work very well on most guns due to the grip, and would really only be suited to an emergency situation where your trigger finger is damaged or something like that. I tried it with a Beretta 92FS at about 7 meters once. No big deal, just had to watch the slide, and I couldn't aim very well of course.

[Pappy John]

I tried it to get a better handle on one of those NAA mini's and OF COURSE my fore-finger was past the BC gap.....talk about a blood blister!
:cuss:
STOOOPID!! STOOOPID!! OUCH!! STOOOPID!!

[mattf7184]

As stated when you want accuracy it doesnt work.

I know many paintball players (at least before in the tournaments when I played) used the middle finger since for some reason you can shoot faster when using it and most of the games I've played where spray and pray lol.

[Treylis]

I didn't put much faith in the man's advice because he also promoted the use of Oven Cleaner as an alternative to OC spray.

I've never had any experience with OC spray, but I have had some with oven cleaner... and, man, is that stuff harsh! My lungs burned from the inside for quite some time, bleh, but it wasn't exactly incapacitating.

[mattf7184]

I wouldnt wanna get sprayed with anything on the bottle that says do not ingest lol :uhoh: :scrutiny:

I know many people keep cans of red spray paint instead of something more non pc so they dont get hassled.

[roscoe]

I have heard that some people who cycle their Enfields fast pull the trigger with their second finger and keep their index finger on the bolt. Apparently it helps to cycle the bolt quickly.

[Nightcrawler]

This is third-hand information, I've heard of a cop who used to do this. But, only because his trigger finger was shot off by a perp....

[GunGeek]

It's called Point Shooting, the site is down as I post this but check out:

http://www.pointshooting.com/

[sturmruger]

This is almost as crazy as the Gangsta shooting. I can see that for people that are missing a digit this technique could come in handy, but other then that it seems like a waste of time.

[lbmii]

Gun Geek,

That is an interesting site you posted. The statistics are very interesting. I am a passionate point shooter myself with my Clock 35 and Kel Tec 3AT. They are defensive firearms and I practice with them as such. However I use my index finger as the trigger finger. I practice on falling plates.

[Correia]

Lets recap:

Cons:
1. Weaker grip.
2. Sympathetic twitch of your top finger
3. Can't use a revolver
4. May cause your auto to malfunction
5. Sucks for accuracy
6. No respectable trainer, ranked competition shooter, police department, or military unit on earth teachs or uses this technique.


Pros, and I'll nitpick these.
1. Stronger trigger pull. Get a better trigger or get stronger.
2. Jack Ruby used it to shoot a defensless man from a couple of feet away! And it was captured on film!

:)

[Carl N. Brown]

I tried the drill of pointing the index finger and "pulling" with the
middle finger. My right index finger moved very slightly, but my left
index (trigger) finger DID move instintively and uncontrollably in
sympathy with the middle finger.
Shooting right handed with a Charter Arms AR7 Explorer II pistol,
I did better using the middle finger technique than using the
usual index (trigger) finger. Of course this gun has very odd
grip and balance.
Sometimes my right index finger arthritis is bad enough to make the
middle trigger finger technique worth practicing.

[Moondoggie]

I use my middle finger on my KelTec P-32.

Even with my medium sized hands, the really small pistol just fits my grip better with my index finger alongside the frame below the slide. Otherwize it feels like it's gonna "squirt" out of my grip with my little finger having no contact with the pistol.

It's the only gun I've ever handled that I'd consider using this technique.

[AechKay]

Ok, question.

Do all guns have to be fired right handed? Do they even have left handed guns? If they do, it would be a nice idea to find a universal weapon for left and right handers that way you could practice both sides and if you got your trigger finger blown off, you could switch to your left?

[wasrjoe]

Many pistols have ambidextrous controls. Even those without them can be shot by left-handers, but with some difficulty in manipulating the mag release/slide stop/safety etc.

[foghornl]

Tried it ONCE and it didn't work for me...not to mention the grossly bleeding 'slide bite'

[Shorts]

Shooting single handed, it is easier to hold the gun steady and draw a good sight on the target by pointing the index finger and working the trigger with the middle. I do not know how it would be to shoot. I was goofin' at the range with my husband and I sighted and got ready to shoot, but decided against it. Murphy's law says something would go wrong. It sure was nice to get my gun super steady as if I was gripping with two hands...sure do miss ol left.

Anyhow, next time out at the range I'm going to try it with better preparation.

[jmilliron]

Never tried this. However, I can shoot pretty damn well with my left hand so I'm not sure how useful this would be...

[c_yeager]

Just be real carefull of where your index finger ends up. I *almost* tried this with a snubby (i.e. Jack Ruby) and fortunatly noticed that the fingertip of my index finger was looking to get burned off by the b/c gap before i actually tried to fire.

[mrhuckins]

Ok, here's my input, take it for what it's worth. My little brother had an Atari "Duck Hunter" game years ago, and I could never shoot the cans witht the darn thing, until my father told me to use the index finger along the slide to point at the cans, and then pull the trigger with the middle finger. I instantly improved a lot. I got so good, I could make one can bounce around on the scren all day. When I actually got a handgun out where I could do some shooting. I could hit a 8" target at probably 35-45 yards firing the handgun as rapidly as possible. I can't say for sure what my grouping was, as we were firing at metal plates. It worked for me. I havn't used the technique in over 15, as I just started getting back into handguns about two months ago, and have only been to the range twice in the last two months. My accuracy sucks using tradtional trigger finger pulls. I'll have to "dust off this old chestnut" next time at the range, and give a report back, to let you know if I still "got it" or not.

[1911 guy]

taught me to shoot like this with his browning H.P., said that's how he shot a 1911 in WW II. I never did well with it, but it worked for him. Maybe it's a personal preference thing.

[Elmer]

Interesting topic!

I do know of a couple guys that were shot because of their middle finger.....

:D

[Cosmoline]

Inspired by this thread, I just tried some dry fire speed drills with my big M-39 Mosin. I know it's not a pistol, but by ginger if I didn't shave a few seconds off my rapid fire! As near as I can figure, my middle finger actually reaches the trigger faster than my index, and when I keep my index straight it speeds up the return stroke and helps cycle the bolt faster!

I'll try it live the next trip to the range.

[KONY]

Website mentioned earlier is up. I came across this before but never tried the middle finger trigger pull. However, I do believe in the importance of point shooting ... it reminds me that I need to practice it more.

http://www.pointshooting.com/

[ksnecktieman]

Try it....... Does it work for you? If it works, no one else has an opinion that matters,,, I can do rapid fire with my second finger fast and accurate enough for belly dance distances,, anything beyond there may or may not be defensive..... will I try to shoot bullseye with it? NO,,, but I have a lifetime of using my pointing finger behind me. Can I hold more tightly to a small pistol with my pointing finger beside the barrel? I think so. All things have their place.

[trickyasafox]

anyone seen sniper where they do this? in paintball its a very accepted technique, and virtually a necessity for the high rate of fire needed in a lot of tourny style play, but thats all with double finger triggers or mainly with em anyway. .

[W Turner]

I actually had to use this once in an IDPA match. The last stage called for firing a string weak-hand only and I had smashed my left index finger in a car door 5 days before this.

No malfunctions, accuracy sucked big-time(but I had never shot that way before), my index finger still throbbed when the stage was over, and I wasn't having the greatest of days either, so YMMV.
BTW- I was using a CZ75B


W

[tuna]

Be careful trying this with small pistols! I thought I found a perfect way to shoot a derringer using this since the trigger pull was so awful. Trying to pull the trigger with the middle finger worked awesome in dry fire until I noticed that the barrel was so short that my index finger was curling around the muzzle! That would have left a mark!

[fastbolt]

Old idea. Been around a long time, and it resurfaces now and again.

I still don't care for the idea. Lot of potential disadvantages.

My middle finger is part of my primary grip stabilization, so removing it isn't something that interests me.

[sm]

I have shot targets ( clay and paper ) that I have pointed my middle finger at to represent my attitude at the time.

Being a member of the "Remington 1100 Sliced Index Finger" Club ( naturally the trigger "index finger" on strong hand) I have used the middle finger to pull a trigger. I have an excuse...

...Being also a member of the "Garand Thumb Club" ....and "Renewing" membership of Both clubs on same day...

...Good day to work on weak-handed shooting, weak-hand drills with revos, and 1911s.

At least my lunch was bought for me that day...nothing else was going right. :)

[B.FRANKlin]

It's like this. However you do it, if it works for you and it don't hurt, use it. All the training in the world doesn't take the place of doing it the way it works best for you. And with practice, there should be no reason why you should do it anybody else's way. There is no standard for what way works best for everybody. There is the recommended way, and there is the way you do it best.
There is the government way, then there is what really works. :evil:


"If I were to start a revolution, the first thing I would do is kill all of the lawyers."--Benjamin Franklin
He was a very wise man.

[7677]

Point shooting is not the use of the middle finger on the trigger. The operator of the mentioned site (pointshooting.com) advocates the use of the middle finger and call this technique "pointshooting" because the index finger points at the intended target while the middle finger pulls the trigger. For those who are interested in what point shooting really is read the articles on that site by Matthew Temkin or Robin Brown (Brownie) .

[Johnny Guest]

;) Correia and Jim Keenan - - -
The big proponent of middle finger trigger manipulation and his-own-version-of-Point-and-Shoot -- was that OK Joe, or some variant of the name?

B.FRANKlin (welcome to THR, Sir) wrote: "If I were to start a revolution, the first thing I would do is kill all of the lawyers."--Benjamin Franklin
He was a very wise man. Brother Franklin was indeed very wise - - Author, publisher, printer, statesman, scientist, inventor, who knows what else? And, at some point, he may very well have written exactly those words. If so, I'm certain he was consciously drawing from the Bard, William Shakespeare - - Henry VI (Part 2) Act IV, Scene II. Here, Dick the Butcher said, "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

Interesting little article on the quote, and the context in which 'twas spake:
http://firms.findlaw.com/UWLAlawreview/memo21.htm
:D
Best,
Johnny

[Ron_Miami]

How do you keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire with this technique?

[benEzra]

I didn't put much faith in the man's advice because he also promoted the use of Oven Cleaner as an alternative to OC spray.
He is definitely off-base (no pun intended) for suggesting that. Not only is it probably less immediately incapacitating, but the probability of causing permanent eye damage to whoever you spray is very high (oven cleaner is a concentrated solution of sodium hydroxide). AND, since attempting to blind someone puts them in danger of "serious bodily harm" by any reasonable criteria, congratulations, you've just escalated the fight to the lethal-force level. He can then pull a gun and shoot you and possibly claim self-defense (just as if you were trying to poke out his eyes with a stick)...and if he doesn't, you've just committed aggravated assault. Stellar.

Regarding Jack Ruby using this technique--I understand he shot that way only because he was missing part of his index finger. Which also solved the problem of burning the end of your index finger when shooting a revolver this way, since he had a truncated index finger.

[Henry Bowman]

Regarding Jack Ruby using this technique--I understand he shot that way only because he was missing part of his index finger. Which also solved the problem of burning the end of your index finger when shooting a revolver this way, since he had a truncated index finger. I've never heard that before. I don't doubt that it could be true, but do you have any reference to this fact?