[ecajberry]

Taurus has redone thier websight, and it looks like the Millenium line has some visable changes to go with the new name.
"Millenium Pro"
I wonder if they solved all the problems with this years model?
Guess we will have to wait and see.

[denfoote]

Ho Hum!!! :rolleyes:

[Kahr carrier]

What problems did Taurus have with the Millenium line ??? Binding??

[Logistar]

I believe the Millenium line experienced sheared pins and cracked frames. I think a lot of the .45s (at one time anyway) ended up with cracked frames.

There were some reports that the PT-111 sheared the pins that went into the polymer lower. (The pins are polymer too.)

I have a PT-111 that has been perfect for over 700 rounds. No signs of any problem. Many suspect it might have been certain guns with weak polymer. Others have suggested that the recoil spring may have been too weak.

FWIW - I recently replaced the recoil spring in my PT-111. I know this isn't scientific but this spring seems SIGNIFICANTLY stronger.

Logistar

[10-Ring]

Go try a search on TFL. THe subject was discussed often & in length. I believe the problem stemmed from an inferior polymer used in the frame. IF the formula hasnt been improved, the guns will still have problems. Let some one else be the guinea pig on this one.

[gbelleh]

Just went to the Taurus website. It looks the same to me.

Where is this Millennium Pro info??? :confused: :confused:

[Michael_2112]

http://www.taurususa.com/whatsnew/pistols.cfm


The Millennium Pro looks pretty interesting. Might be something worth taking a look at for a CCW piece. I think as long as they don't have any problems with this line, they might have a winner. Nice looking improvements over the Millennium. The prices listed seem pretty good as well, for being a list price.

~Michael

[benewton]

All DAO, none small, none with any significant difference from the available arms.

And none in 10mm, on the first pass, and, since Glock's gone to me, that's important.

Me for H&K, I guess, but I'm failing to see the reason for Taurus autos.

There are, however, other actions...

[gbelleh]

Thanks for the link. I couldn't get to the new site at all earlier.

I used to have a PT-145. I sold it right before all the frame cracking issues. I liked the size, weight, capacity and accuracy. If these new models prove themselves to be reliable, I'd consider one.

[Michael_2112]

Your certainly welcome for the link. :)

~Michael

[Thumper]

Looks like they've extended the "ribber" grip concept to their autoloaders.

[denfoote]

I beta tested the first PT-145 and found it sorly lacking!! I ain't gunna get fooled again!!! :banghead:

[gbelleh]

Denfoote,
What was so bad about yours? Besides the frame cracking.

In the short time I had mine, I found it to be very accurate and dependable, and the size, weight and capacity made it a great CCW option. The only reason I sold mine was to buy an HK USP 45 Compact. I came into some unexpected cash and decided I only needed 1 .45 at that time. Selling the Taurus let me get a USP and an AR-15 on the same day.


I'd like to hear what else besides the frame cracking, made it such a bad gun. Just curious...

[New_comer]

There's a post by either Blackhawk or Chan Bates over at www.ktog.org comparing the innards and operating characteristics of the PT111 with that of the Keltec P-11.

One issue is he described that Taurus has a lot to do to improve on the PT111 trigger.

Me, I'd give it 2 to 3 years before I give a serious thought of owning one... :(

[New_comer]

Found it! :D

Read here: http://www.ktog.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2293&highlight=blackhawk+or+chan+and+trigger+and+taurus

[Forseti]

Looks like they did redo the slide. Safety now does not rise up to the path the slide will follow when firing. There was some talk of "half deployed" safety levers being sheared off when the gun was fired on the previous model....though it must have been difficult to force the safety lever into this position, as it "wants" to be up all the way, or down all the way.

I read the article on the trigger on the PT-111. Calling it "horrible" is just plain hype editorializing...the trigger pull is stiff because the entire pull of the trigger is what is priming and releasing the striker. There is no hammer, no partial build-up of kinetic energy with a half cock. The feel of the pull will be different because of this. The mechanism is simple in design. Since I don't want an accidental discharge, I have no problem with this having a trigger that will "go" only when the user really wants it to. Try it yourself, its a little less stiff than the average double action revolver.

There was a point in the above mentioned post about a "terminal weakness" in the trigger, how the trigger bar can "shave" the aluminum frame. I cannot speak for the PT-111, but this is not an issue in the PT-145, which I own. While the slide rails are aluminium, the part the trigger bar rubs against to move its final downward motion to release the striker is steel. I know because I put a magnet to it. Its riveted to the aluminium.

The slide cracking issue was limited to PT-145's manufactured before early 2002, and Taurus has promised to fix any that show the cracks. The cracks were in the plastic (not the metal slide rails the slide). Nobody who has had this issue has said it stopped the pistol from firing, and, as previously mentioned, Taurus has its lifetime repair policy.

Looks like this is version 2.0 of the Millenium line....I like my PT-145...a very good, low cost pistol with (when considering price) has specs that beat most other .45's in weight and size.

[dude]

yea, I know the 'ribber grips' are major-goofy but having shot lots of full power .357mag loads through my titanium sunb..........I have to say they perform OUTSTANDINGLY well. While no good for CCW use they are PFM when it comes to recoil and muzzle control. If Taurus were to make them for other brands of revolvers I'd be first in line to pony-up the cash and replace my Dan Wesson .44mag's grip with some 'ribbers'


back to Taurus autos- while I would never consider one for no reason other than I have one auto that works for me and no need for another, I did have the chance to shoot two mags of 9mm through a brand new Taurus compact 9mm two weeks ago. A guy had just bought it and was out at the range shooting quite poorly at 25 yards with it. I could see his dissapointment and after a while went on down to shoot the BS. Turns out this guy was mostly-cowboy with no autoloader expierence. This was an outdoor rifle range with no stands closer than 25 yards btw and I explained to the guy that his new 'piece' was really made to only hit stuff about 10 feet away. After this he felt better!!

My point in this lengthy diatribe is that he put 150 rounds of Wolf 9mm through his new Taurus mini-autoloader without any malfunctions. The two mags that I shot were nothing special, but they all went 'boom' and hit some part of the cardboard at 25 yards.



FWIW- my only auto is a Baby Eagle Compact 9mm that recently replaced a P7, after almost 20 years of what I though was P7-bliss. Alot to be said for finding a pistol that just 'fits' I guess! I am a revolver guy and firmly believe in the 'fear the man with one gun' concept when it comes to autos.

[Grayrock]

I like what I saw. The Stainless Pro in .45 is running a close 2nd to a Glock 36. Anyone care to convince me otherwise?

[makdaddy03]

There were a whole lot of people (TFL,Shooters,Guntalk) complaining about the PT145 45acp frame cracking at around 500rds. I have nearly 1000rds through mine with no problems. I like Taurus handguns.:)

[darshan27]

Howdy,

I own both the PT-111 and PT-145 w/stainless slides and both were manufactured in late 2002. Both have over 800 rounds fired with no malfunctions whatsoever. The only cosmetic flaw I saw was that the red paint on the inside of the chamber indicator with the PT -111 wore off after only 100 rounds, but it's only a visual issue, since the indicator functions as it was meant too.

For target practice I use Federal American Eagle (115 gr for 9mm and 230 gr for .45 ACP) and Hydrashok for self defense along with the new Taurus Hex Bullets for .45 ACP. No jams or feeding malfuctions.

The millenium line uses barrels that are between 3.14" and 3.5" inches. You do not use these guns in IDPA matches. I generally practice shooting in the 5 to 15 yard ranges with these guns and generally can get 3" groups, which is good enough for me. If I want to test with longer yards, I pull out my Taurus PT-92 or Kimber Custom II.

Hopefully, Taurus has finally addressed the issues concering the polymer cracks and shears. For concealment purposes, I fully trust the Millenium line. Since I already own two guns from this line, I don't see myself buying anything from the Millenium Pro section, but if the polymer issues are addressed, I see these pistols selling pretty well.

Just two cents from the newbie,
Tony

[Lexter]

I will never even re-consider owning a Taurus gun again. I had the PT-140 and experienced the slide-stop pin shearing off. The gun would never get through a full mag w/out locking as if it was empty. The icing for me was the "customer-no-service" when I tried to reorder the slide stop pin. They were rude and cavalier about the problem (and follow-up on the back-order). Hope others' results vary!!!


Lexter in NC

[BLiTzNicK]

The icing for me was the "customer-no-service" when I tried to reorder the slide stop pin.

Heh, so I'm not the only one who can't get parts from Taurus.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

<G> I've had similar problems in the past with Taurus' parts department. For me, the third time, accompanied by a Xerox enlargement of the parts I wanted, was the charm. My PT111 has always performed within my expectations for it. I don't have any really negative things to say about it. The parts order was to replace parts the Labrador puppy assisted me in losing. I have, however, smoothed up some of the drag from the striker-fired trigger mechanism by polishing the firing pin and fp chamber. For what I paid for it and what I use it for, it's fine by me. I know it's not a target piece; I know it's limitations are, for me, within a 7 yard field of engagement. It's an 18 oz. crowbar to get Goblins off you, not an IPSC race gun. For Goblin repellent, it's great.

Regards,
Rabbit.

[ecajberry]

I have looked at all the manufacturers websights and for me, the only gun that grabs my eyes is the pt-145. Its size, capacity, looks, all appeal to my needs. I think I am going to have to take the chance that they have worked out all the bugs with this years model. Having owned a pt92 in past years, I hold good memoried of Taurus. Hope that continues.;)

[gbelleh]

ecajberry,
If you end up getting one of these, please post a range report and let us know how you like it.

I hope Taurus has worked all the bugs out!

[chaim]

RE. Taurus autos.

In the past most with experience with the metal framed guns were extremely happy. They are very reliable, durable and accurate.

Taurus did have some major problems with the original Millenium line. The .45acp had frame cracks develop very commonly and the 9mm and .40S&W pretty commonly had pins shear.

As a result few people who regularly visit gun forums buy them so it is hard to tell if they have truely fixed the problem (kinda like Consumer Reports readers stopped buying Hyundai after the early ones had tons of problems- Hyundai now makes a much better car but Consumer Reports can't comment on their reliability because not enough of their readers buy them to get good survey results). Anyway, those who do have more recent Millenium guns, or who kept the old ones after the fix, mostly report that the problem seems fixed.

Comments about the new guns:
-Because of the problems w/ the early Millenium guns and distrust of the new ones I think revamping the line is a good idea. I don't expect any problems with these and hope to get one next summer (since I have other priorities first). By then hopefully some people will have bought them and the "controversy" will be put to rest.

-The new polymer mid-sized frame gun, the 24/7 (hate the name), sounds interesting. Seems like a perfect light weight police duty gun or civilian CCW.

-I'm very interested in their new .22lr target pistol. I am not that big a fan of the Ruger MkII or 22/45 (sacrilige, I know) or the S&W 22 and there are never many Buckmarks around here so this is a welcome alternative.

-I am very excited to see the new series of 9mm snubs (I know this is the auto section, sorry). I've wanted a 9mm snub since my 605 didn't work out (too much weight IMO for only .38 and+P use, to light for defensive use of .357mag). I figure 9mm in a snub should be similiar in recoil to .38 or maybe .38+P, while being much more powerful (9mm seems to lose far less velocity in a short barrel than revolver calibers), in fact the better loads should be simliar to .357mag power out of snubs. Not to mention, I absolutely love 9mm- very versatile (really cheap practice loadings, very good defensive loadings, very powerful +Ps).

[client32]

I'll add my experience. I own a PT145 made in the middle of 2002. I haven't had any problems with it. I have been very pleased with it.

If you do some searching, I don't think anyone has had problem with one that has been manufactured towards the last half of 2002.

[nvrquit]

Here's a link to a posting on old TFL:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=144180&perpage=25&highlight=PT940&pagenumber=2

Scan down the page to get to my experiences regarding Taurus CS and those Taurus pistols I've owned. Mostly good and I may even pick up a PT911 or PT938(stainless, of course) in the future.

[Grayrock]

Any new info on the .45 MilleniumPro yet? When can I get one? Will it be worth the wait or should I go get my Glock 30 now?

[SouthpawShootr]

I'm just beginning to see the Millenium Pro 111s (9mm) at showns. I'll be picking up a recent vintage PT145 (not a Pro) in a couple of weeks to see if I can manage to destroy it. I looked at a couple of PT-111 Pros over the weekend. Looks like they updated the frame so that it looks just like the PT145 frame (that's good, the old style looked kind of cheap). From what I've been able to gather, it will be the end of the summer before the .45 is available. I expect that this will end up like the new Kel-Tec .380 which was promised by the middle of this month (and nobody's seen them). No matter, if they did their homework and the gun if better for the wait, I've got no beef with it. I plan on getting a Pro in .45 maybe early next year. Let's just hope my forthcoming experience with my 145 doesn't poison my attitude.

[Tamara]

The ones I played with at SHOT this year had noticeably better triggers, especially the new 24/7's.

Since the old ones had triggers like trying to pull a piano along a gravel road with your finger, this is welcome.

[PCRCCW]

Ill have to comment on this one...alot of negative stuff has been read/posted/thrown around on every forum about Taurus's misfortunes. Ill bet aside from the PT poly gun probs and the customer service probs, the guns have a "typical of any maker" failure ratio......Ive had beyond excellent luck with my guns in all regards.
The fact that they revamped the PT Poly line with the newer design, better trigger and other improvements...pretty much shows you that they actually listen to their customers....The fixed all of the problems Ive heard about..and then some.
The 9mm snub (40 S&W in the future) is another breath of fresh air.....Personally, I will own one of these....a nice Pocket carry to go along with the PCR/Compact. Its about time someone listened to the CCW cry for a new production 9mm snubby.
Shoot well

[DigMe]

You guys are starting to wear on me I think. I'm starting to wonder if the bad taste I've developed for Taurus autos is justified. The main thing for me though is story after story that I've heard about their poor customer service. This has apparently not changed that much as I heard another one very recently that made me glad it wasn't me. The only way the guy could ever get anything done was to talk to the head of customer service. Everyone else was very rude and never had accurate info.

My only experience with gun mnftr. customer service was when S&W replaced the faulty barrel on my Sigma .40 (it's been flawless since then BTW) and they had it fixed and back to me within a week. Very helpful and informative through the whole process.

Anyway, that's my feeling on it but I'd possibly be willing to give them a chance if I found myself in the right circumstance (I don't normally speak in rhyme...at least not all the time).

brad cook

[SouthpawShootr]

THIS JUST IN.........

Spotted a Millenium Pro PT-145 at the Hampton, VA gunshow today. Cost was $379 in stainless. A regular PT-145 was sitting next to it for the same price. I did a quick (busy table) side-by-side and really didn't see that much difference (looked like there was some difference in take-down lever (or whatever it is called) and the slide stop). There were no mags in the guns so I didn't get a chance to compare.

[Kharn]

Has anyone had a chance to check out the 922, Taurus's new .22lr autoloader?

Kharn

[Gerald McDonald]

I had a PT-111 that ran thru probably 700 rounds with no problems at all. I let all the bad press on the internet spook me into selling when I should have held. Trigger was pretty good after a couple of hundred rounds and accuracy always suprised me. If I did my part it was hard to tell by group size at 7 yards from my Glock 17.

[Grayrock]

I just got back from one of the regular gunshows in the area. I saw no eveidence of a Millenium Pro in any caliber. My gun guy can get one for me thru Davidson's. I think I am going to wait til the night sighted version is available and then support the local economy. I saw a few plain Milleniums and some older PT-145's. Saw too many cheapie guns. Overall, a quick trip and found nothing I couldn't live without.

[Rebeldon]

I visited the website. Nice!

It looks like Taurus is coming out with a new .22LR target pistol to go up against the Ruger MkII.

Check it out:

http://www.taurususa.com/imagesMain/H_922B.jpg

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=922MB6AS&category=Pistol

[Lennyjoe]

Just seen a .45 millenium pro in the gunshop today. But I didnt get to handle it cause the place was so darn busy. Musta been 40 people in there.

IT was tagged for$405.

[SouthpawShootr]

I saw one dealer who had Millenium Pro .45s at the last gunshow 2 weeks ago. He had them priced at $370 (he's usually a little low compared to other dealers - I expect the others to carry it for about $20 more). I just bought a PT-145 and I honestly couldn't tell the difference between the two unless I had an example of each side by side. The 9mm and .40 Pros are easy to distinguish - the frame looks just like more recent vintage model PT-145s. I wonder if the .45s Millenium and Millienium Pros use the same mags. I'm going to shoot the hell out of my Millenium and see how it goes. If I don't have any problems by 1000 rounds, who knows, I might just buy a Pro also. It would be an added plus if the mags interchange (retail is $40 each and you only get one with the gun :what: ). I can't say I particularly care for the takedown procedure on the Millenium series guns or the wishy-washy reassembly instructions, but I like the overall design and hope to see it succeed.

I doubt I'll be getting any of the other calibers. The only purpose for these guns is concealed carry and my G26 has the Millenium Pro 9mm beaten hands down.

[Grayrock]

I just got off the line with Taurus customer service. They said the Millenium Pro with night sights (PT-145) should start shipping next week. Yippee! On the downside, they said the mags for it are unique. Only Millenium Pro mags will fit, not regular PT-145 or plain Millenium mags.

[PakWaan]

I own a new Taurus PT-111 Millenium Pro - it's a great gun, and it feels better in your hand than anything else I've tried including my Glock 19. See the range report I posted a couple months ago - do a search for "Millenium Pro" and you'll find it.

The trigger pull has been dramatically improved over the old one; many other fixes to the issues that people raised about the original Millenium line. I now have over 700 rounds through it without the first feeding or firing problem - eats anything I put through it. It's my primary carry gun, and I couldn't be happier with it.

[twolf]

Hi All:

The Taurus PT-111 Pro has apparently righted all of its past wrongs. It now comes with a dual recoil pin for better handling of recoil. It comes with, as others have said, the ribber grip. It comes with easier to see sights for a better sight picture. It also has beter serations in the slide improving the grip. They also state that it has a recessed mag release. I do not know why they changed this. I have never heard anyone say that they had the magazine accidentally release on them. I have heard that the magazines rattle like crazy.

The one thing I can say that I am disappointed in is the fact that no one has molds to make holsters for the Pro yet. It is about an 1/8" smaller in width than the original. Taurus should have been proactive and given the dummy gun blanks out months ago. A concealed carry piece does not do much good unless you have a holster.

Still, the Pro may live up to its name. I am most likely going to buy one, if I do, I will let you all know how she does.

:scrutiny:

[Grayrock]

I have been patiently waiting for the PT-145 Millenium Pro in stainless to become available with night sights. Now I see the website says it will be available in 4th quarter of 2003. What gives? Why the delay? How long does it take to put different sights on it? What's the hold-up?:confused:

[twolf]

Grayrock:

The sights are different on the Pro than on the standard. They were suppose to have it out by now but, my guess is that they had some trouble with their suppliers. I do not know who is making the night sights for Taurus on this on but I do know this much, I contacted every manufacturer of night sights and asked about the Pro series and they all said the same thing, we do not make night sights for that line.

I saw the prototype last week, it does look sharp. I did not see any markings on the night sights to tell who was making them.

[NewsShooter]

I own and carry a PT111. I checked put a new 111 pro the other day and didn't really care for it.
1 It's heavy. As much empty as my old one is loaded.
2 Larger. no thanks.
3 Didn't feel as balanced as the older one.
I would say that the trigger is smoother than mine was when new and the mag release is improved.
The trigger and the mag release were the only problems I had with mine. Over the last year I solved those problems anyway. I'll keep my year old PT111 thank you.
:)

[PCRCCW]

The PT111 is the one Ive had the most experience with.....hell, Taurus even sent me a free one..........LOL. NO, I didnt keep it. :rolleyes:

The trigger was horrid..........If its worse than a CZ100...well, need I say more? The guns internals were rough and looks thrown togethor.......

In defence of the little guns, now....Ive shot one that was very very nice.

The Pro seems to have righted all previous wrongs with the PT's....I think the Pro may give Taurus back some of the credibility they lost with the original line up.....but not all. Thats just how the world works............

Id like a PT145 Pro Ti with nights..........good little CCW.

Shootw ell

[Grayrock]

Well- they have the .45 ACP Millenium Pro out in stainless. And they now have the Millenium Pro blued with night sights. So why the delay in putting the 2 together? It's a cruel marketing ploy to keep me interested.

Check this out:

http://www.gunfinder.net/getprice/index_handguns.shtml

Go to Taurus in the left hand column, then go to the 4th page and see item number 32445!!

[twolf]

Grayrock:

I would email him to see if he actually had it or if he said he did because of the supposed release date. I just checked with five distributors and none of them had it. Also, just so you know, if he is charging 10% over invoice, he is paying alot more than I am. My price for that pistol, if they had it would be $351.00. Add $10 to $20 for shipping and it would be up to $371 max. That would put the price to $408 not $464. I could find other things to spend that $56 on.

If you are interested, I will ask the supplier to call me when they become available in the STS with NS.

[CasualShooter]

For anyone interested in the problems with the Millenium Pistols and particularly the Millenium PT145, the matter was pretty well covered in the following threads on the old TFL site.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1305038#post1305038

and

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1317961#post1317961

Incidentally, the so called "frame crack" problem with the PT145 was actually a problem with the polymer grip that was cracking - not the frame. IMHO the problem was not as serious as some would indicate. There were reports of shooting ranges continuing to rent guns with cracked grips without any apparent incident.

It appears that these problems were solved by Taurus in the latter part of 2001 and I am not aware of these problems in any pistols made in 2002 and later.

A review of the posts on the above threads will also provide info on how to tell when these guns were made from the code included in their serial numbers.

[Grayrock]

Well- has anyone gotten any hot tips on when the stainless Pro .45 will be available with night sights? I might have to go back to my original choice of the Glock 30 if they don't come soon. I've also been hearing a lot on the Firestorm Mini .45 (NOT the Llama one, the Bersa). tick tock, Taurus.

[twolf]

Hey Greyrock,

They still do not have prices available yet for dealers so I would say probably not. I would also take a look at the Beretta 8045. I do not like Beretta's traditionally but then again, the 8045 doesn't look or feel traditional:D

On another note, you could try Taurus's disservice department;)

[WonderNine]

Any 9mm Taurus revolvers hitting the channel yet???????????????

[twolf]

They are suppose to be available this winter but they haven't been on time with anything yet, so why break a habit :p

[WonderNine]

I thought they said Summer 03'???

Now they changed it to Winter???

hmmf

[twolf]

They are now saying fourth quarter of 03.

Check for yourself!




Taurus (http://www.taurususa.com)

[Grayrock]

Should I keep holding my breath?

[9x19]

I've been wanting a look at the 922 as well.

It might make a fine addition to my collection of .22 pistols.

[Bugs66]

I just bought a PT-111 Millennium Pro with night sights. Will post my range report soon. Will be my CCW as soon as I fire at least 250 rounds through it. The only thing I don't like so far is the shiney surface of the upper chamber. I think I will GunKote this black, I don't want a mirror giving my position away. What's the point of having a stealth weapon with night sights if it has shiney surfaces?

[boing]

The stealthy part is usually a covering garment.

[chaim]

They sure are good at drumming up anticipation. Announce about a year before they plan to bring them out. Then delay about half the new guns. By the time they are out you are just about ready to burst.

Anyway, I can't wait to finally see the Millenium Pros locally (I don't think the model has yet been approved by the MD State Police so it isn't legal here yet). I will probably need to get one if the trigger is even half way decent (almost got the PT 145 just before I saw the stuff online about the frame problems- now I realize they've fixed that but I can't get past that trigger, though even with the trigger I've been close to laying out the cash). I just don't know if I'll get a .45 or a 9mm (I love both calibers, maybe I'll just need to get one of each eventually:D ).

I'd also like to take a look at the 922. I will be picking up my Ruger MkII eventually (waiting for the gun I bought online to come in, I'll be picking them up together) so I don't really need a .22 auto anymore. However, I like Taurus and if it looks good it might be nice to get something that is a little different from what half the world owns.

There are a few others I'd like to look at, though I'm not as excited over.

Of course, the one I'm most interested in is the 9mm snub. Taurus, stop toying with us and bring it out!!!:banghead:

[Bugs66]

The stealthy part is usually a covering garment.

Ummm... and when you have it drawn in the cover of night? Why not tape a mirror to your forehead?

[boing]

I don't spend a lot of time standing in the dark waving my gun around. My gun doesn't come out until there's a threat, and it's either going to get shot right now, or be threatened with getting shot, right now.

I guess I should change my glasses to contacts, paint my wedding band camo, and dress in all black, with no buttons, zippers, or snaps. But then, most people are more tactical than I am.

While you're lying in wait under "cover of night", what are doing with your flashlight? Is it all black, too? ;)

[Bugs66]

I don't spend a lot of time standing in the dark waving my gun around. My gun doesn't come out until there's a threat, and it's either going to get shot right now, or be threatened with getting shot, right now...

Suit yourself but you need all the advantage you can get and I'll take all of it. So when you have an intruder in your house in the middle of the night and you give him a little flash before you see him - I wish you luck. Oh and I hope you have your gun drawn by now. ;)

[boing]

I forgot. Some people don't have eight dogs living in the house with them. :D

But...flashlight?

Agree that one needs every advantage possible, btw, I just think shiny bits on the gun are a non-issue, given the circumstances. Whatever floats your boat. :)

[Grayrock]

Well- (TAURUS- ARE YOU LISTENING?)- they may have lost me. It is taking much too long for the PT-145 Stainless with night sights to become available. I was just browsing a local pawn shop today and this 8"blued Python leaped out at me. It has not followed me home yet, but it might. Not exactly a CCW- but it's a PYTHON!! They were asking $675 for it- very tempting- if it's not beat to crap.

[twolf]

Grayrock:

If you want a .45 for carry, nothing else will do, you will be miserable until you get one. Also, if you're willing to spend almost $700 your choices will abound.

Look at the following:


H&K USP Compact - mine has less recoil than my wifes Glock 23

Beretta Cougar - I personally do not like Beretta but it is a good and reliable firearm

Sig 245 - Again, I personally do not like them but it is a good firearm

S&W CS45 - This is a very reliable firearm. I have the 9mm version and love it.

All of these can be gotten for well under $700. If you need some help finding one, let me know.

twolf

[Grayrock]

They're HEEEERE!

Or at least gunfinder.net lists them:



Order
Qty Qty
O H Itm
Num Item
Desription Cat
Code Estimated
Price Retail
Price
32446 TAU 145SSPNS 45ACP MILLPRO NS SS -- $x $x


If You find Something you like, EMAIL GUNFINDER.NET !



http://www.taurususa.com

View Larger Image
Taurus Model PT145 Millennium Pro Pistol, .45 ACP Caliber, 3.27"
Steel Barrel, Matte Stainless Steel Slide, Double Action Only, Night
Sights, Polymer Frame and Grips

The new Millennium PRO compact polymer frame pistol is the 3rd
generation of the Taurus series. The new design features enhanced
finger indexing Memory Pads, Posi-Traction slide serrations, integral
magazine base extension and recessed magazine release. The Millennium
PRO caries four safety features including the Taurus Security System,
manual safety lever, trigger block mechanism and a firing pin block.

SPECIFICATIONS
CALIBER: .45 ACP.
ACTION: Double Action Only.
SAFETY: Frame Mounted Manual Safety, Trigger Block,
Firing Pin Block and the Taurus Security
System renders the pistol inoperative by use
of a special key.
CAPACITY: 10 + 1.
BARREL LENGTH: 3.27".
SIGHTS: Fixed 3-Dot (FS) or Tritium Night 3-Dot (NS).
OVERALL LENGTH: 6.0".
WEIGHT: 23 oz.
GRIPS: Checkered Polymer.
FINISH: Blue or Matte Stainless Steel Slide, Polymer
Frame.
WARRANTY: Unlimited Lifetime Repair Policy.





:)