[TrapperReady]

Now that I seem to be doing OK with .223, I've finally got my second toolhead set up for .45ACP. For my first rounds, I'm using new unprimed Winchester brass, Winchester LP primers and some Speer Gold Dot 230gr bullets.

I had been planning to use Clays... but from what I gather out of the reloading manuals, it appears that it would be far from ideal for this application. Therefore, I'm thinking that Bullseye would be better. Basically, I'm just looking for something to replicate the standard Speer Gold Dot 230gr commercial offering (for a lot less $$$).

It does seem that the Clays would be just fine for creating all-around plinking/practice ammo with some lead or FMJ round-nose bullets.

So, what do you think?

If I want to replicate the SGD factory, what would be the best powder? What type of bullet (230gr preferable) would be best used with the Clays for general range use?

Thanks!

[stans]

I am a big fan of W-231 in the 45 ACP. It meters very well and provides excellent velocity in the 45 ACP. I have also used a lot of Bullseye in the 45 ACP. It is also a good powder. The 45 ACP is a low pressure round, so powders slower than Unique or AA#5 have little place in standard pressure 45 ACP loads.

[Ardent]

If you are just looking for cheap range/plinking fodder buy something like Rainer 230gr plated or any one of the lead 230gr LRN offered by many manufacturers. If you are looking for cheaper still, and plan to do a fair bit of shooting you can look into casting your own.

Ardent

[Zak Smith]

I use Titegroup exclusively. It's a tad slower than Clays, and a little more flexible.

[tc300mag1]

I switched to titegroup from 231 seems to burn cleaner and accuracy is just as good

[Bronson7]

You can duplicate factory velocities with Universal Clays as opposed to plain Clays ( which is too quick but works fine for plinking loads) It's clean burning but shooters have mixed results with it. I've used W231, which is an excellent powder, but in my tight chamber, due to it being somewhat dirty, I start getting incomplete battery after about 50-75 rounds, so Universal Clays is what I use for full velocity. I understand Vivatouri ( forgive the spelling) has some great powders, but they're pricey and availability can be problematic.
Bronson7

[Sven]

231 is dirty for me. I like Win WST - fills the case nicely (double charges are not overflowing, but visible), clean, low smoke and flash. Plus, it can make some darn accurate loads.

[JoeHatley]

I'd recomend Bullseye. Bullseye powder and the .45 acp have been a match for almost 100 years, with good reason ....

Joe

[Mark whiz]

So far, I've had the best results with Red Dot, IMR 700-X, and AA#5 when using 230gr bullets of any type. But I've yet to try Bullseye or Tightgroup yet.

One word about the Gold Dots......................they are most accurate with moderate powder loads. I've found that out when loading them for .32ACP, .38Spcl, .357Mag, & .45ACP.

Work them up with loads similiar to what you'd use for lead rounds, that'll put you in the ballpark.

[TrapperReady]

Thanks a lot for the replies.

I ended up getting a lb. of Bullseye and a lb. of Titegroup to get started. I also picked up a whole bunch of 230gr LRN so I can work up a plinking/target load and get in some practice.

I figure I should be able to get something workable for now, and establish some baselines to compare to down the road.

I had been kinda hoping for plain ol' Clays to work, since I use so much of that for shotshells, I've always got at least an 8 lb. can sitting around. Oh well, maybe this will kick me in the butt to load up what I've got and get some Universal next time around. :)

[threefeathers]

I have loaded 23 different powders in the 45 ACP over the years and the one I will not touch is Bullseye. Neither will Jeff Cooper. It is so fine that a double load is really easy and will not be detected most of the time. I use it in 9mm and .380.

Each of my 1911s like different powder.

I Chronograph all loads.

My personal favorite is WSL but it has been discontinued. (I buy all I can)
I believe that Titegroup is WSL with a flash inhibitor. I use it with the same loads as WSL.

My son's 1911 likes 700X and a lot of IDPA guys use it.

I use Red Dot on my match ammo. It gives itty bitty groups.

For SHTF military duplicate I use WSL untill it runs out.

[HSMITH]

Trapper, I have shot tens of thousands of 45 acp's loaded with Clays. It works fine, and better than a LOT of other powders. You can get respectable performance out of it too, plenty of power for practice. Most of my loads have been 200 LSWC or 230 FMJ. With your 230LRN start at 4.0 with an OAL of 1.25"-1.27", and give them a try. I think you will be pleasantly surprised and doubt you will feel the need for more power. I have been up well past 4.0 with no pressure problems at all if you feel the 4.0 load is soft, you can email me for details if you like.

I have a nasty shotshell habit too and usually have an 8 pounder or more of Clays here too.

That said it isn't my favorite 45 powder, Power Pistol is TOPS for big power and accuracy. Universal Clays is very close and has no flash (always on hand for my 20 guage habit LOL). Unique is an excellent choice for lead bullets and will get PLENTY of performance. 231 works very nice, as does Super Field. I am currently using Bullseye, I have a 15 pounder I need to burn up. When it is gone I'll go looking for a big can of Power Pistol or Universal Clays.

[TrapperReady]

HSMITH - Thanks for the info. I'd been hoping you would spot this thread, since I remember you talking about Clays in the past.

BTW, if you've got a recipe for 230gr lead, will that apply (for the most part) to any similar weight and composition bullet, or do you have to look for a near identical match? I guess what I'm asking is how much leeway do you allow when comparing loads across manuals?

For example, I can check my Speer Manual for a 230 gr Gold Dot. If I check another manual, it won't have a Gold Dot, but might have a 230 gr HP. Is the data likely to be close enough to count as a reasonable comparison?

[HSMITH]

Trapper, glad I could help a little.

You can substitute data for like composition bullets of the same weight, but can't substitute lead bullet data for jacketed bullet use. I also get cautious when bullet construction types change, say the brass jacketed bullets vs. a normal cupronickel jacketed bullet. Lead bullets are lead bullets across the board, but back down 10% or so when switching around with jacketed bullets just to be safe.

The 45 acp is as forgiving a cartridge as you will find, so you have a lot of 'cushion', but it never hurts to be careful.

If you need some specific bullet data I would think we can track it down here, I have 10 or so manuals as do most others that have been in it a while. Between the lot of us data should be easy to come by.

[rayra]

I started with 700x long ago, liked it ok, but a bit dirty. Tried Unique for a long time, not as dirty. Then later tried Win231 during a couple seasons of IPSC shooting. All were 'dirty' to my thinking, and I was additionally concerned in that both the Win231 and Unique were so concentrated that double-charging was indeed possible.
Still using up my 231, and would like to find a cleaner bulkier powder to use.

[another okie]

A handy little book to have is the "One Book, One Caliber" series from Loadbooks, U.S.A. www.loadbooks.com. I have them for .308, .30-.30 and .45 ACP. They compile info from many different powder and bullet manufacturers and put it in a little spiral bound book that costs about fifteen bucks or so. Of course, you need one big loading manual for instructions, cautions, and so on. It's a lot cheaper than buying the whole manuals from eight or ten companies, and if you only reload one or two calibers it works great.

[HankB]

Vast quantities of G.I. Ball ammo were loaded for the military using 4.6 grains of Bullseye powder. Maybe they used a "non-cannister" lot because of the tons of powder used, but it was still basically the same stuff you buy over the counter.

I mostly load .45 these days with a 230 grain RNL bullet - I've found that 4.8 grains of 700-X gives me about 825-850 ft/sec out of a 5" 1911.

[halvey]

I like Bullseye. I was told 5 gr of Bullseye was the standard GI load, but that seems a bit hot.

Bullseye gets me good groups will all charges. In my Lyman manual 6 grs, the max load, is listed as the accuracy load. I think this is because 6 grs fills the case nicely. I've actually tried using powderpuff loads then putting little pieces of paper to fill out the case. Seems to get a bit better groups that way since the powder doesn't move around. I've had this experience with very light Clays too.

[CactusJack]

TrapperReady,

Well, you have already got some very good info: here, but i'll throw this in for ya as well.

Hornady's reloading manual volume 6. (latest edition)

for 230gr. 45acp plinkers:

Titegroup... 4.3 grs @ 700 fps.
unique...5.1 grs. @ 700 fps.
clays universal.. 5.4 grs. @ 700 fps.
power pistol.. 5.6 grs. @ 700 fps.

to closely duplicate the 230 gr. SGD Which factory specs, are at 890 fps.

universal clays.. 6.5 grs. will just about put you there. as will:
power pistol...7.3 grs.

HTH


CactusJack

[larryw]

What Sven said. I figure if WST is good enough for the USMC Pistol Team, it's good enough for me. ;)

[boogalou]

Trapper - I also use Clays and 4 grains over a 230 grain bullet is a great plinking load. I've also used it with 185 & 200 LSWC's with good results. the only bad thing from my perspective is it doesn't meter as well as Titegroup or Bullseye through my Lyman 55 measure.