[Jim K]

Every once in a while someone posts about his carry gun being customized, super quality, etc. Maybe such folks might think about this.

If you fire the gun, or even draw it, and especially if you kill or wound someone outside your home, you are going to be arrested. If you have your gun in hand, police will tell you to drop your weapon, and you better do it, or you will be shot.

Police will seize your gun for evidence, even if the shooting was inside your home, and police evidence rooms are not noted for giving TLC to guns.

So what I am saying is that it just might not be a good idea to spend megabucks on a carry gun that could wind up being kicked around on a concrete floor or dropped on the street. It is tough enough to have to wear steel bracelets without wondering if you will ever get back your $3000 pride and joy and what it will look like if you do.

A less expensive carry gun might be a good idea, and maybe one more replaceable if you get the problems resolved and can carry again.

Jim

[Standing Wolf]

So what I am saying is that it just might not be a good idea to spend megabucks on a carry gun that could wind up being kicked around on a concrete floor or dropped on the street.

By the same logic, I should drive a beater and wear grungy old clothes.

I believe the odds are very high one's carry gun will never be needed.

[Josey]

That is why I carry matte finishes. My Colts and Brownings and even my Llamas were/are plain jane firearms. I rarely wear my BBQ pistol.

[Felonious Monk]

Hmmm...

I carry a P11, a Rossi snub .38 &/or a P32. For just those reasons. AND,
I currently drive a 12 yr old Subaru.
I wear clothes I buy in bulk lots on eBay, usually khaki dockers & polos, but bought VERY cheap.

Standing Wolf, should I hold my breath on an invitation to Thanksgiving dinner? :p

Just messin'
FM

[Grunt]

No, I agree that for myself, I'm not going to carry a 2-3 thousand dollar handgun. Hell, I don't have one I carry that cost me over $600 as far as that goes. My usual carry piece (a slightly used HK USP-40 compact) only set me back about $450. On the other hand, I don't want to have to trust my life to a pot metal glorifed zip gun that may or may not work when needed either!:what: I think that everybody needs to find their own balance of what you can afford to loose should your sidearm be bagged as evidence and still be of high enough quality to not let you down. Handguns like Glocks, Springfield XDs, CZ, EAA, Rugers and revolvers are examples of cheaper new quality built handguns. You can also get used quality handguns at great prices, especially in the police trade-in market. I got my Sig P-220 from Keisler's Wholesale for $398 total a month or two ago and it shoots great. :) For me, you'll probably never see a Les Bear in my holster but I'll be damned if you're gonna find a High Point in there either!!!

[R.H. Lee]

Hey, if I'm still alive after a lethal threat encounter I don't care if I lose a $3000 pistol-if I ever would have a $3000 pistol which I would not, or even a $1000 pistol thank you very much :D :p

[sm]

I had two snubbies spend 48 hours in the "evidence room" once upon a time. The S&W came back quite a bit for wear than I remember last seeing /shooting it. I don't know how copper streaks got in the bbl either, because I stoked it with lead. Of course I figure the electrical tape added was to keep the once nice stocks from cracking further...you don't think it was to protect a shooting hand of another? Nah...

I had last fired 5 rds of Winchester ammo, "that night". I had fired Rem cases in the cylinder when my attorney and I retrieved it later. Later I found out "my gun may or may not have been at the local po-po range over the weekend".

The Win ammo in the Charter arms , tho' removed was still unfired from "that night". I guess the S&W was more "interesting".

Personally I see Jim Kennan's point. It is relative to what a person can afford that makes the price tag subjective I suppose.

Having been on numerous Juries...I have no idea how long the Belgium BHP had been in evidence, being as it was stolen and used maybe the perp did not take care of it...nonetheless...I was so sad to see how this gun ended up.

FWIW my attorney really got on the ball to get my guns back for me that quick. He even went so far to call the Judge at home on the weekend. We arrived at 5:30 am Monday to retrieve mine.

[Plinkerton]

That's not cool at all, to have cops "playing" with your guns after they seize them.

If I could carry out here in ****, I would carry some sort of S&W J-Frame. I definitely wouldn't carry some 3000 piece.

Like it matters though... Stupid ****... :scrutiny:

[Rival]

That's what Makarov is for...

[HardCOR]

While I would love to have a $3000 dollar handgun, why would ANYONE use such a thing as a self defence weapon? Many dead-stock plain-jane guns would be vastly superior for that kind of use. Especially when you talk about CCW. Those guns have already been mentioned by a previous poster.

$3000 dollar guns are for ego-defence, not self-defence.

What makes a gun worth $3000? Cosmetics? Match grade accuracy? These things don't spell DEFENCE. They spell FUN, they spell TASTE, they spell PRESTIGE, and they might even spell TIGHT GROUPS. These things won't save your ass.

$3000 dollars gets you 1/3 the defence at 3X the price.

IMHO

[1911Tuner]

Have to agree with Keenan's logic, and I follow it with my carry guns...
my main one being a Frankengun that I cobbled up from various insundry parts. If it were to every wind up in a dealer's display case, it would be one that nobody would give more than passing interest...and probably pass up unless it had a 150 dollar price tag. I wouldn't want to lose the
gun because it's dead reliable...but it wouldn't break my heart if I did.
My carry guns regularly draw chuckles and good-natured ribbing form the
custom and high-end semi-custom crowd... until they shoot'em. :D

On the point of guns having been obviously fired...That's understandable.
Probably a routine ballistics check to determine whether or not it had ever
been involved in a past shooting...and to add a fired bullet to their database in case it ever is. Taking one to the range and wringing it out
is another matter. I don't mind somebody shooting my guns...but I at least
would like to be asked first.

If the gun is damaged or abused, I wish you luck with any attempt at getting restitution though.

[sm]

If a person has money, the disposable income to spend $6K for a Vickers 1911 to carry, more power to them. Yes there are folks with money, that are in serious lines of daily work.

I have seen these types of guns. I have seen and shot 4 custom guns made using Caspian Frame and slides. He had two more 5" guns done and 2 more commander size guns. He has a total of 3 each. The Commander is the BUG, 5" is the primary. This person believes in redundency. Redundent platform ( MOA), also he has backups if a gun should need service or is in the evidence room. The other pair is kept off premise in a safe place. He will have another set done, giving him 4 pairs of exact CCW guns. He can afford it and he chooses quality for his needs and line of ...err...daily activity.

I understand Mr. Kennan and what he is saying. I have had students tap out the credit card and could not afford to shoot, afraid to carry for fear of scratching the gun or getting the holster sweaty. Totally usless for them as a CCW.

The student that bought a used police trade in , say a model 10 or 3913 bought a gun they could afford, not afraid to carry, and not expensive to feed so as to practice.

I always recall the lady buying the mechanicaly sound Model 10 snubby with the finish pretty much worn , found a used holster in the "bargain bin" and had it re-sewn and adapted to fit her hips. She CCW this gun for a long long time, still does. She finally had more money and really wanted a nice 1911 commander size...she bought a duplicate model 10 and a new holster instead. Granted she is better off financially than she once was, figured a dupicate was more important.

Finally got her a 1911 commander size...she carries the revos, some day perhaps she will carry the commander size1911. Actually very sentimental to her that 1911... she is more interested in actual shooting and training, than collecting, she uses the revos for CCW.

[ssr]

I have no problem spending that much on a carry gun or carrying it. It all depends upon what one wants. I have one Colt that was customized, bobtailed, checkered, hard chromed, new sights, stuff like that. It's a great shooting pistol and a great carry gun and I can shoot it well, so I carry it. I don't know if I will ever customize a gun that much again. But I wanted it, so i had it done, and it turned out good so I carry it. The other couple guns I carry are all pretty stock, although they still might be relatively expensive 1911s.

If I am ever in a defensive shooting, and I shot someone and killed them, and am alive, well, it's not going to happen that many times in my lifetime, and if I survived, then the gun was worth it, even if it was $2000+.

I believe you should carry the gun that you shoot the best and the one you would want in your hand if things were going bad and you find yourself needing to defend your life, not the cheapest gun that you're willing to loose if it's confiscated. Which gun that is is an individual thing.

[Old Fuff]

It’s interesting that Jim, Tuner, and now I all agree with Jim’s position on this issue. All of the handguns that I usually carry look like stock, and for the most part are. I have invested time and money in making sure that they are as reliable as humans can make, that the trigger pulls are smooth, (although not too light) and that they shoot point-of-aim/point-of-impact.

A favorite .45 is built on a Caspian frame and slide with a USGI barrel. The sights are low profile, fixed and carefully zeroed. Finish? It’s bead-blasted and Parkerized.

An old S&W model 10-5 Military & Police looks like a beater. But looks can be, and are deceiving. It can shoot rings around some that I’ve seen that came out of a custom shop or Performance Center. Because of its appearance I suspect it would sit unnoticed in most evidence rooms.

Over my lifetime I have met and known a small number of men who were the “real thing” – modern day gunfighters who had been in numerous exchanges of lead and survived the experience. They had one thing in common. They carried high-quality handguns that often exhibited finish wear, were in perfect mechanical condition, but were otherwise stock. And these men were absolutely deadly.

[1911Tuner]

Another likely inane point is that if you actually have to shoot...and you're
carryin' a 35 hundred dollar showpiece...the shootee's family will figger
that if ya can afford to carry a gun like that, you can pay off a quarter-million dollar settlement. All mine are well-tuned and more accurate than anybody except a very good marksman can prove offhand...but they sure won't win any beauty contests. :D

Comments? Point/counterpoints?

[ssr]

I agree. I think the main point is carry a dependable piece that has the accuracy you need/want that you can shoot well. I think one should carry the gun they want in a fight, regardless of what it is or what it costs. Shooting and surviving is the primary consideration, I think.

[El Tejon]

That's just BS!

When I unleash my TacticalMaster2000 upon the hordes of zombies and bears that attack me in the parking lot at Wal-Mart, the police will rush up and pin a medal on my chest and I'll win citizen of the year.

I am a Warrior Prince that need not worry about any consequences of hurting anyone else as I am the only person in the world. This post is nothing but the sissy hand-wringing of someone like El Tejon. Next you'll be telling us to have multiple copies of the same gun or about how problematic the non-existant Problem #2 is.

Besides, I live in Texas and can shoot anyone for any reason. So there!:neener:

[1911Tuner]

Besides, I live in Texas and can shoot anyone for any reason. So there!

That caps it! I'm movin' to Texas! Gotta be somebody down there that needs shootin'!

:D ...and they're comin' to take me away hahaaaaaa

[Safety First]

It's all relative, one will spend what one can afford or some people will spend more than they can afford for a carry gun. Some will spend less, I will probably never own a gun of any kind that cost $3000. You make a good point but as I said it is relative. For me I will spend the most that I can afford to carry a gun that I trust my life too and If I lose it or comes back to me the worse for wear it will still have been worth every dime I paid for it if it helped save my life...Just my 2 cents worth:)

[sm]

Sleeper look myself.

One example is a model 10 snubbie-
External looked like hell, internals are top notch. Fella thought I had "new" titianium revo, I did have stocks on it that fit well. Boy was he shocked to see it was a blue gun...just gotta know where to look to see the bluing. I paid $95 for that police trade in. :)

Today I carried my Keltec P-11. This is the one I did all that T&E on and folks have commented it looks better than the steel guns I have been known to CCW.

[Graystar]

If the gun gives the carrier peace of mind, then it's worth every penny paid.

[Jim K]

Some good and thoughtful replies. I confess my post was as much to tweak some of the "I will never give up my super gun" guys as to comment on what may happen to the "super gun" in a shooting.

Someday, I would like to do a gunrag article describing what a licensed (or unlicensed) gun carrier will encounter should he/she have to use his gun. It ain't pretty, and nothing anyone would want to go through unless it was absolutely necessary to save a life.

They wouldn't publish it though; their income depends on pushing gun carry without discussion of responsibility or what happens after a shooting. Lots of print about proper stance, nothing at all about the need for an attorney or what it feels like to have a half dozen cops pointing those "cool" guns at you or how Miranda sounds when it isn't on television and is being recited to you. No wonder some naive readers think we are still in the old west.

Jim

[JohnKSa]

I agree.

Things are going to be bad enough without having to wonder what's happening to my expensive "baby" while it's in police custody.

The other good thing about carrying a cheap but high quality gun is you can own two or three that are identical. If one breaks, or is apart for cleaning, or gets shipped off for new sights, or is in the evidence room, you can simply use its twin in the interim.

Anyway, my rule of thumb is that I don't carry or wear anything that's more delicate than I am. I don't want to worry about the stuff that goes with me everywhere--it's there to take care of me, not the other way around.

[sm]

I respectfully suggest you write the article.
I feel this is a great topic and needs to be written and shared.

I'm going to step out of bounds here perhaps - Contact our own Denny and see what he and Rich think about it for SWAT.

Apologizes to Rich and Denny , if out of bounds. I still feel the subject is serious enough, and SWAT "prints it as it is - not as folks want it to be".

[Chris Rhines]

I'm not directing this post at anyone in particular, but I've often detected a hint of envy and bitterness running through these types of threads - i.e. "I can't afford a zillion-dollar full-custom gun, so I'm going to denigrate anyone who carries one."

I've shot $3000 custom raceguns, and I've shot $300 box-stock Rugers and Makarovs. The $3000 guns have been superior in accuracy, shootability, and reliability. Complaining about this does not make it untrue. Whether or not that makes the $3000 gun superior for your own purposes is, of course, up to you.

That said, if I pour three grand into a single gun, it'd better be able to handle being kicked around or dropped on the pavement.

More to the point, if my budget for a defensive gun were $3000, no way in hell would I dump it all into one pistol. Two $1500 pistols would be a much smarter purchase. Better yet would be two $800 pistols (much below that and it becomes tough to get a good 1911a1) and spend the balance on leather, ammo, and training.

Bottom line - pay your money, make your choices.

- Chris

[R.H. Lee]

I'm not directing this post at anyone in particular, but I've often detected a hint of envy and bitterness running through these types of threads - i.e. "I can't afford a zillion-dollar full-custom gun, so I'm going to denigrate anyone who carries one."

Course the flip side of that is anyone who has a $3000 pistol is obviously overcompensating for some other self perceived shortcoming. :p

[Marshall]

That's it! I am starting tomorrow with concealed rocks in my pocket. :neener:

[goalie]

I am going to be thinking more about the $10,000 or so my lawyer is going to be making than I am about the firearm.

And I'll be happy to spend that ten grand, because it's in the bank and I'm alive to get it out and give it to someone else.

[Ankeny]

What I carry, game with, or toss under the seat of the pick up should be of no concern to anyone. My gun, my money, my choice.

[JohnKSa]

What I carry, game with, or toss under the seat of the pick up should be of no concern to anyone. My gun, my money, my choice. At first I was confused about what I thought was an overly heated reply but then I reread the initial post and realized that I had missed something...
Quality carry gun
Every once in a while Ankeny posts about his carry gun being customized, super quality, etc. Maybe Ankeny might think about this.

If Ankeny fires the gun, or even draws it, and especially if he kills or wounds someone outside his home, Ankeny is going to be arrested. If Ankeny has his gun in hand, police will tell him to drop his weapon, and he'd better do it, or he will be shot.

Police will seize Ankeny's gun for evidence, even if the shooting was inside his home, and police evidence rooms are not noted for giving TLC to guns.

So what I am saying is that it just might not be a good idea to spend megabucks on a carry gun that could wind up being kicked around on a concrete floor or dropped on the street. It is tough enough to have to wear steel bracelets without wondering if you will ever get back your $3000 pride and joy and what it will look like if you do.

A less expensive carry gun might be a good idea, and maybe one more replaceable if you get the problems resolved and can carry again.

Jim
P.S. Ankeny, Ankeny, Ankeny--so there!

[denfoote]

I have given this conundrum some thought and have come to several conclusions.

I have had the misfortune of having my firearms confiscated by the local constabulary. (for my own safety and protection, of course ;) )
It took a call to my attorney, a long restless night in a gang infested neighborhood, several weeks, and a hand written court order from the presiding judge, hand delivered by my attorney to the department in question to get them back. This, after the case in question was dismissed!!

1) I have decided that I will carry whatever I choose to carry for my defense. Sometimes that is an inexpensive Kel-Tec, mostly it's a Glock of some sort.

2) The cost of the weapon is immaterial where the safety and protection of my family is concerned.

3) If the local Gendarmes seize and eventually keep my weapon, then so be it. That's part of the cost of staying alive!!!

4) If, as in the case mentioned above, I force the local Gestapo to return my property, then "happy day"!! I will instruct my attorney to cause that outcome with all due haste after the case has been settled!!

Just my humble thoughts on the matter!! :D

[farscott]

I look at carry pistols as expendable items, much like pickup trucks. If I can sink $30K into a new pickup every ten years, I can sink $2.5K into a new carry pistol every year or so (the time it takes my smith to craft me a new one), and another $5K for accessories and training. That way I have a dedicated system in place. After all, my family is the important issue.

The pistol itself is just a tool, and tools can be replaced. If the pistol is used, I fully expect I will never see it again outside of a court room -- and I really do not care. I have two others just like it that are ready to go. If I get the pistol back, that is an unexpected bonus -- and it will go off to the smith to be rebuilt. So any scratches added by the police or other government employees are really no concern.

What does bother me is the possibility that a customized pistol may be a liability in a civil trial. So I have been leaning towards customization that is purely functional and for the most part internal.

[Harvey]

I have no problem spending that much on a carry gun or carrying it. It all depends upon what one wants. I have one Colt that was customized, bobtailed, checkered, hard chromed, new sights, stuff like that. It's a great shooting pistol and a great carry gun and I can shoot it well, so I carry it. I don't know if I will ever customize a gun that much again. But I wanted it, so i had it done, and it turned out good so I carry it. The other couple guns I carry are all pretty stock, although they still might be relatively expensive 1911s.

If I am ever in a defensive shooting, and I shot someone and killed them, and am alive, well, it's not going to happen that many times in my lifetime, and if I survived, then the gun was worth it, even if it was $2000+.

I believe you should carry the gun that you shoot the best and the one you would want in your hand if things were going bad and you find yourself needing to defend your life, not the cheapest gun that you're willing to loose if it's confiscated. Which gun that is is an individual thing.

You present a most reasoned argument in a curious debate, ssr, and I fully agree. The pistol I carry. - .albeit a tricked-out Colt Officer's Ultimate, worth a couple grand . - .is the one with which I practice, train and compete.

Why would anyone ever consider carrying anything less comforting (for fear of economic loss, no less) in a potentially dangerous world? I guess at some point we need to trust something with our lives. And for me, it'd be my pretty Colt ... not a cheaper surrogate to my most familiar and trustworthy companion.

[SwampWolf]

The pistol itself is just a tool, and tools can be replaced. If the pistol is used, I fully expect I will never see it again outside of a court room -- and I really do not care. I have two others just like it that are ready to go. If I get the pistol back, that is an unexpected bonus -- and it will go off to the smith to be rebuilt. So any scratches added by the police or other government employees are really no concern.

What does bother me is the possibility that a customized pistol may be a liability in a civil trial. So I have been leaning towards customization that is purely functional and for the most part internal.

I agree entirely, farscott. The very likelyhood of having to use a pistol to defend my life or that of a loved one is super thin at best and I'm not going to compromise what I shoot best (be it cheap or expensive) just because I'm worrying about an event that most probably will never happen in the first place. And, in the unlikely event that I do have to use my pistol to shoot somebody in self-defense, the very last thing I'll have to fret about during the aftermath of said shooting is the final disposition of my pet pistol.

[shockwave]

I think the main point is carry a dependable piece that has the accuracy you need/want that you can shoot well. I think one should carry the gun they want in a fight, regardless of what it is or what it costs.

Same thinking here. I wouldn't make a weapon choice based on assumptions about what will happen to it afterward if I have to use it.

[CWL]

It really comes down to shooting what you can afford, and this differs greatly among our brotherhood (sisterhood) so it's the individuals choice.

As for me, I don't care how much money I leave on the floor if it just helped me survive an assault.

[uspJ]

personally i wouldn't carry a 3k peice but that's how i am. i would rather spend that same amount and have a couple glocks, xd's, m&p's, and hk's than spend that for one handgun. there are too many quality defense suitable handguns that i'd love to have to spend that kind of change on one.

[EddieNFL]

In the aftermath of a shooting, what happens to the gun will rank towards the bottom of my concerns.

Would I want it back? Probably, but I just don't know.

[Ala Dan]

Well folk's, I have seen what happens to both inexpensive and expensive
pistols used in crimes; whereas someone was shot, as well as where NO
shots were fired but a crime was committed. Our local judgeship had a
bad habit of condeming them to the firey furance. I'm speaking of guns
from Arminus revolvers to 3K custom semi-auto's. Our old judge had NO
LOVE for firearms; as he only saw his view - of what bodily harm they
could do~! On many occassions, I begged and pleaded with him too
send several confiscated handguns to the police academy, too be
used in training by new recruits. My voice fell on deaf ears~! :eek:

Now, to the subject of what I carry. NO, I hardly ever carry my 5"
LB Thunder Ranch Special; as it only see's range duty. NO, I don't
even carry my Kimber Stainless Ultra II anymore. Most of the time,
I can be seen carring a Kahr CW-9; backed up by a KEL-TEC P3AT
.380 auto, or a Smith J-frame .38 of some sort. ;) :D

[MCgunner]

I carry a gun that's very accurate and goes bang every time. None of my carries cost me more'n 300 dollars, though the main two, that's 1996 dollars. I had my P11 seized and got it back 8 months later when the case was dismissed. The locals were kind to it, but frankly, it's got so much holster wear, it'd be hard to scratch and actually notice. :D But, it shoots straight and always goes bang and that's what matters.

[BullfrogKen]

Old thread brought back to life, huh?


I've got no mental reservations carrying my high value guns. I put money into them to make them do their job well. Why leave it at home?

[armoredman]

Holy ressurected thread, Batman!
I have duplicates that will do the job, joys of using quality affordable sidearms. If I lose my $600CZ P01 with $300 Crimson Trace Lasergrips to the evidence room because I just used it in successful self defense, then I just got my money's worth, regardless if it comes back or not. I want the gun back, of course, but the investment will have paid off at that point.
As for police shooting my evidence guns, just don't break 'em, and I have no issues with it. Enjoy, let me have mine back and ask questions, maybe I can make a convert. :D

[jeepmor]

Going bang every time is infinitely more important than anything else when your life is between you and the primer and next round cycling properly.

I'm in the same position as most of you in that I really hope I never have to use this fire extinguisher, but I know it will work if and when I need it.

[flipajig]

I have 2 carry guns one is a Ruger P95 in 9mm and the other is a Ruger LCR in 38spc
my $3000 pistol sits in the safe its a TC contender. both of my carry guns are shooters
not to be looked at. although my TC is a shooter too.

[MCgunner]

Don't want these threads coming out of moth balls? Delete 'em or lock 'em. :D

[Marshall]

This thread is so old that I didn't even remember replying to it. Ok, maybe it's me that's getting old. :uhoh:

I say Jim has a good point for those that loosing a high dollar gun would effectively bother.

Me? I'll highly doubt I'll ever carry a gun that expensive anyway so it doesn't matter. For one, there's too many great accurate/reliable sub-$800.00 guns out there for me to have the need to spend that kind of $ on a carry weapon. I think the post is great food for thought to those that have never considered the possibility. For those that have and want to carry that expensive of a handgun, that's great too.

[orionengnr]

June 26, 2004
Going on six years old...Nice job. :rolleyes:

[searcher451]

My view is that if you buy and then carry the right firearm to begin with, you won't have to deck it out and spend a couple of grand or more on it; that way, you won't have to worry about that rara avis mentioned by the OP six years ago.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x43/searcher451/no_nec.gif

[FoMoGo]

I dont see a problem with bringing a thread back up that has good points and views.
I dont carry high dollar guns, I carry lower priced guns with high reliability and accuracy.


Jim

[Deaf Smith]

I perfer a bit jazzed up Glock 26 for carry.

Bowie Tactical Concepts grip reduction.
Hinnie strait eight night sights.
NY-1 trigger.

And that's that.

Add to it ANOTHER Glock 26 with AACK .22 unit for practice ONLY and you have the CCW setup you can become very good with. I mean VERY good with.

Cost? I paid $425 for that Glock 26 with BTC reduction and night sights! Added the NY-1 trigger myself. Then $450 for the seond 26 I bought many years ago. The AACK unit, with 4 mags, cost around $300.

That's $1175, and far less than those fancy custom guns.


I've used these for years and they are as reliable as any fancy custom gun (and I've owned a few of them to!)

Deaf

[Frank Ettin]

As long as the thread has been resuscitated, I carry whenever I legally can, and it's usually a Nighthawk, Les Baer, Ed Brown or an H&K P7M8. I like those guns. They are reliable and accurate. And yes, I know what can happen to one of them if I need to use it. But that's okay with me. I bought the guns to use in the real world. That's what they're for.

[MattTheHat]

When it comes to protecting the life of *me and mine*, I'm going to choose to carry the pistol that gives me the best chance of doing its part without failure. For me, that's going to be one of my custom 1911s. If it happens to get confiscated and never makes its way back to me, yes, I'm out over 4 large. SO THE HELL WHAT??????

If the life saved was *yours* or a total strangers, I'd say that was $4k well spent.

If the life saved was mine or "one of mine", I'd say that was the best $4k ever spent.


-Matt

[Floppy_D]

If your case goes to trial, you'll forget about the cost of the gun when you get the lawyer's bill. The carry weapon is the least expensive part of a self-defense case.

[BHPshooter]

I've got no mental reservations carrying my high value guns. I put money into them to make them do their job well. Why leave it at home?

I totally agree, Ken. I had my carry gun modestly customized a couple years ago. As it sits, if I had to replace it at retail prices, I'd be looking at about $1500. To some, that's almost obscenely expensive for a carry gun. It's the one I carry, and it's the one I train with, shoot IDPA with, plink with, and sleep with. I made it exactly how I wanted it to be, and if I'm in a fight, this is the gun I want with me.

To be clear, I do understand what Jim was saying. Many people can't even seem to cope with holster wear. It would stand to reason that if that bothers them, having it confiscated would break them in two. If the possibility bothers you, don't carry it...

There was a time when I cared about holster wear, and the thought carrying my most expensive gun scared me. I humbly suggest that anyone with that problem try to get over it. I did.

Wes

[tkopp]

I don't own a high value handgun.

Even if I did, I'd carry the best weapon I could conceal. Your prettiest, rarest, most expensive handgun may not be the one most likely to save your life. If it isn't, leave it at home! But my life is worth more than anything I own. Four grand is cheap compared to a hospital stay because I got shot when I didn't have to. Carry the best available, and if you have to use it, it's money well spent.

[Losov]

Nothing wrong with an old thread coming back, particularly to someone like me who is rather new to shooting in general and the board in particular.

The thread does bring to the forefront some stark realities with which we might have to deal if we ever need to discharge the weapon in a situation not of our choosing. Whether one selects a Kimber or a Kel-Tec for that day is of little concern given the magnitude of the aftermath.

[CoRoMo]

I found this thread a while back and thought that the input from Jim, Fuff, Tuner, and sm is something that should be stickied. There are a lot of oldie/goodie threads like this in the archive. Resurrecting them does not improve their value IMHO.

[General Geoff]

Resurrecting them does not improve their value IMHO.

I disagree. Resurrecting an old thread such as this with the intent to continue its original discussion is not a disservice, and is in many ways commendable; I'd have never seen this thread had it not been resurrected. I for one am appreciative that it was.


Anyway, people come from all walks of life with all different levels of discretionary income/finances. A Hi-Point for Joe Average might be more of an investment to him than a $4,000 Les Baer 1911 is for Mr. Fortune 500 CEO. Carry what you can afford; if you're afraid of scratching or dropping it, it probably shouldn't be your daily carry piece. Same if you're afraid of it getting abused or lost after a defensive shooting.

[Zerodefect]

If the gun saves my life, then I have no problem buying another. No point in useing a cheapo gun. theyre all going to get wear from training and holstering anyway. I buy the best pistol/rifle I can find and mod it appropriately then I beat the living tar out of it in training.

Thats what refinishing is for.

[TeamPrecisionIT]

As a personal opinion, if you can't afford the gun to lose it, then you can't afford the gun. It's the same thing with people who double park a BMW 3-series or other finer cars. If you can't afford to replace/fix it, then you can't afford. I personally will carry an Ed Brown or similar gun only when I can afford to have two or at least be fine without it for a while. That is the same rational I use when making other purchases as well.

Damian

[Buck Snort]

Mas Ayoob has good things to say about a standard Ruger 45 ACP he used on duty for quite some time. He even shot it competitively and did pretty doggone good with it. Truth of the matter is all you need to know is that the gun will go BANG everytime you pull the trigger and it does not need to be a tack driver at 25 yds. Word is that about 90% of all SD shootings are withing 20 ft. and all but the shabbiest of guns will put bullets into COM at that range.

[Frank Ettin]

...Word is that about 90% of all SD shootings are withing 20 ft. and all but the shabbiest of guns will put bullets into COM at that range. The gun is seldom the problem. The weak link tends to be the user.

[Old Shooter]

I agree that if I'm ever involved in a shooting the cost of the gun will be the least of my worries. whether I get it back or not.

But they make new ones every day and the gun shops are full of collectables and hi-dollar pieces if thats what you want.

Just buy or build another.

[CraigC]

I will carry what I feel most comfortable with and what I feel is the best tool for the job. Should I ever have to actually use it, when they take me away in handcuffs I will be grateful to be alive. Not worried about my carry pistol, no matter what it cost.


It's the same thing with people who double park a BMW 3-series or other finer cars.
I have to disagree with this statement and the analogy. Some folks actually care about the condition of their automobile, whether it's a $200,000 car or a $5000 old truck. I never doublepark but I always park far enough away from everybody else that I don't have to worry about some inconsiderate idiot slamming his door against my `04 Silverado. As a result, it's 6yrs old and has not a single dent or ding. I do this regardless of what I drive. While most folks are driving around in their dinged-up cars looking for the closest parking spot to save them from walking another 20ft, I'm already in the store....and I'm a fatboy. What I don't understand are the people with swanky cars that DON'T do what I do. But I'm weird that way.

[TeamPrecisionIT]

CraigC,

If you could truly afford it, then you would have insurance or at least have the money to repair or replace it. Same thing goes for handguns, rifles, or anything else in life. If you can't afford to replace it, then you can't afford it.

Damian

[P97]

I will carry the gun that I shoot best for a CCW. With me, it just happens one that I've had custom work done on, but it would be what I want if I ever have to rely on one to save my life. I don't worry about the cost of the gun. The gun can be replaced, but the life of a family member or myself can't.

[Lastmohecken]

Well, I must admit I don't carry my Wilson Combat 1911, for CCW, much. Not because I am scared of getting it confiscated, after a shooting, that would be my last concern, but the nature of CCW for me, is often leaving a gun in my vehicle, and I definately would be concerned about letting some low life steal it out of my truck, but If I am keeping it on my person, then I am not to worried about loosing it.

However, I really believe in carrying the best tool for me, and that varies from a cheap Kel-tec to at least a $1000 gun or more, if It's the one I feel most confortable carrying. I just got through buying a Kimber Tatical Ultra II, 3 inch 1911, and tax and all it cost around $1200.00, that's less then half of what my 5 inch Wilson sells for today, but it's a more practical gun for CCW due to it's lighter weight and better concealibility, so I won't hesiatate to carry it, if I am more confortable carrying it, then a $500.00 Glock, which I also carry, and Glocks make good truckguns, since they are eaisly replaced, and who in the heck harbors any sentimenta value to a Glock, but I don't like carrying Glocks on my person, as I just don't find them very confortable to carry, because they are still pretty thick, in general. So I will carry even a higher dollar gun, if it's more to my liking.

As far as cheap guns go, I have seen lot's of cheap guns, that I would not want to trust my life to, and to people that carry them just because they are cheap to loose, I ask you, How much is your life or the life of a family member worth? I don't need a fancy gun, but I won't cut corners on a life saving tool, if I feel I need something better, or more expensive. Cheap boots and Cheap guns, are more likely to result in pain then buying something better. Now, I do not consider a Smith and Wesson Model 10 a cheap made gun, but I have seen a lot of new cheap semi-autos out there that I would not use unless it was the only gun I could get, and there are even some junk revolvers out there too, that I would not trust very far.

One thing I won't put up with is a big, bulky, poor handling, clunker even if it is reliable, just because it's cheap to lose.

[230therapy]

I consider the gun as just another expense that will occur if I have to use a weapon to defend myself. If I use it, I expect it to be at least temporarily confiscated and probably abused, lost or stolen.

I do not "bond" with it. It certainly has no "soul". It is not integrated into my ego. It's a tool, nothing more. The price of even a $3,000 gun is nothing compared to the bill the lawyer is going to hand you.

I suggest that people start taking a realistic look at themselves in the mirror and review their motivations. There is nothing wrong with collecting, sport shooting and so forth. However, mixing serious business with fun rarely ends well.

Get serious about carry. Train, know the law and put your mind into the proper mindset necessary for killing people.

[Vern Humphrey]

Personally, I don't like ornamentation. I have a saddle, for example, that has no ornamentation except the maker's mark stamped on the gullet, the feders and the stirrup keepers. That's four too many in my opinion.

On the other hand, I like functionality. A plain, unornamented saddle of good construction, a quality knife, and a quality gun are always good things to have.

[Supertac45]

It's a tool that can be replaced. My life can't.

[Clipper]

Couple things...
I don't drop guns, so shoot me. I'll set it down, or hand it to someone.

If the shooting's done before the cops arrive, my gun will be back in it's holster. They can remove it themselves.

That being said, I simply can't afford a fancy pistol anyway. However, my Kel-Tec PF-9 gets treated with respect too.

[CraigC]

If you could truly afford it, then you would have insurance or at least have the money to repair or replace it. Same thing goes for handguns, rifles, or anything else in life. If you can't afford to replace it, then you can't afford it.
This is nonsense. Whether or not you can afford something and how you treat it afterwards are mutually exclusive. You gonna fork out your deductible every year to fix door dings? You gonna balk at the increased insurance rates because you had half a dozen dents and dings fixed every year because you are careless??? Me, I'd rather be responsible, take care of what I have and spend my money on more important things.

[Shadow 7D]

+1 ^^^

I carry a nice enough gun, I don't carry a super special gun, just a special enough gun

For some that could be a 2K piece of steel, Me, I'm fond of my little KT that I've spent time getting to know and making smooth. I can loose that gun with out too much impact, other than hurt feeling, but I see no reason to carry a museum piece, unless that is what you want to carry, as for the insurance, ***, are you an insurance salesman?? really, If you get into a SD shooting, you homeowners is going to dump you or bump you up after defending you from the skumbag's family, out of your home, you still have to pay your lawyer bill, and I've yet to see an insurance policy that would cover that. Your gun, depends, theoretically homeowners or auto could cover it, loss of service etc. BUT that would be a fight after the legal trouble, cause commission of a crime voids your coverage.