very compact double action .45acp?


PDA






SpikeEVO
June 27, 2004, 03:20 PM
I've got an H&K USP Compact and H&K USP Fullsize in .45acp, both great guns, I'm a very happy HK owner!

But I am looking for a more compact, single stack magazine double action .45 auto to use for concealed carry usage... preferably something that functions similarly to the HKs (controls).

I guess the only one I really know of would be the Para Carry and Para Stealth Carry LDA guns... both of which are a bit heavy for me for such a small gun (weighing about what the much larger HKs weigh!), but I am still considering them.
http://www.paraord.com/pages/lda_single_carry.html

Any ideas for an alternative small, single stacked double action .45acp that would be easy to conceal, especially ones with polymer frames?

If you enjoyed reading about "very compact double action .45acp?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
stans
June 27, 2004, 04:47 PM
Para Ord is about the only compact double action only 45 ACP I can think of. I have not fired an LDA, but I have handled several and dry fired them and they seem to be really sweet. I guess the biggest issue with the compact 1911's is reliability. Most are reliable out of the box, some are not, some require a lot of time and patience to make them reliable.

WT
June 27, 2004, 04:50 PM
If you have a grudge against yourself you can look at the AMT Backup in .45 ACP. 5 round mag and 1 in the tube. Double action only. 20# trigger. Less than 6 inches overall length. No sights. Weighs 23 oz. Poor reliability.

wally
June 27, 2004, 05:05 PM
AMT .... Poor reliability.

Across guns. You might get a good one or a bad one.

I've a good one, very reliable but something like a Kimber Ultra Carry is much better IMHO despite being a bit larger.


In short barrels you'll get less velocity and in 45 penetration might suffer. If you can look past 45ACP, check out the Kahr PM40 very small and light .40 S&W.

You'll get about 100 fps more velocity that the short barrel 45 and 180gr .40 has the same sectional density as 230 gr .45 so penetration will be a bit better with the .40 from these small guns.

--wally.

Marshall
June 27, 2004, 06:07 PM
Oopps

PCRCCW
June 27, 2004, 07:46 PM
Sig 245, Glock 30/36, Star Firestar 45, Astra 75, etc.............
Lots of good choices.......Shoot well

Big Mike
June 27, 2004, 09:28 PM
S&W 457, 4516, CS45. Different controls though... Mike

carpettbaggerr
June 28, 2004, 03:07 AM
EAA Witness.

http://www.eaacorp.com/firearms/pistols/witnesspoly/images/witnesspcomp.jpg

Don't know if it's "very compact" though. Hmm. Baby Eagle also comes in .45.

denfoote
June 28, 2004, 05:32 AM
Another vote for the Glock 36!!! :D

gvass
June 28, 2004, 12:01 PM
SIG P245

armoredman
June 28, 2004, 12:07 PM
Not a 45, but the CZ 2075 RAMI in 40 might fit your bill. The Glock 36 is very compact, but I could never figure out why throwing out 4 rounds from the G30 was worth 1/8th inch thinner! I'll take the four extra rounds, thank you!

Clark
June 28, 2004, 12:12 PM
A 20 ounce 45acp with full chamber support designed by Sirkis Nehimiah.
http://www.cobrapistols.com/products/doubleaction.htm

http://www.cobrapistols.com/images/doubleaction_patriot45.gif

Obiwan
June 28, 2004, 12:17 PM
Glock 38

G19 size....8+1....in .45 gap

Coming soon

mfree
June 28, 2004, 12:20 PM
If you're willing to shoot the GAP cartridge, CZ should... eventually... be bringing out a 2075 RAMI .45GAP.

I'd say that's about as compact as a .45 gets, though I haven't handled one of the mini-glocks yet.

roo_ster
June 28, 2004, 03:20 PM
I own a AMT .45 Backup.
Stainless
Heavy, but smooth trigger (lotsa dry-fires w/ snap caps)
Reliable with SOME HP

I no longer carry it, but I took to stoking it with hardball. I had gotten a couple premium HPs to feed (can't recall the brand/model, however...likely 230 gr rounded pills), but finally looked reality in the face and decided that getting a 230gr HP to expand out of a 3" BBL is wishful thinking. Hardball always gave good reliability.

Some folks have had poor experiences with AMT, though I have had nothing but good experiences.

BTW, my AMT is the best point-shooting pistol I own. It doesn't NEED sights out to 10-15m. Also, when you took your time to align the slide with the target, it gave good groups. Inherently accurate, in other words, but no sighting equipment to take advantage of it.

carpettbaggerr
June 29, 2004, 03:00 AM
A 20 ounce 45acp with full chamber support designed by Sirkis Nehimiah. Have you tested this one, Clark?

mete
June 29, 2004, 07:42 AM
SIG has the 245 but also has the Mauser M2 though nothing about the Mauser, it is DAO.

Zach S
June 29, 2004, 08:57 AM
I've never fired one, but I have looked at a G36 or two...

I own a Para Companion (http://www.paraord.com/pages/carry.html#companion) which has been robo-reliable, since I replaced the factory extractor with a wilson part. Its a bit too compact IMO, one of these days I'll call Para and see about getting a CCW slide for it.

Clark
June 29, 2004, 11:32 AM
Carpettbaggerr,
Yes, in the spring of 2000 I bought a Patriot for $180 from AIM, for my goal of working up 460 Rowland loads with 45 acp brass in a small carry pistol. I was inspired by Mousemag's P32 32 Defender and realguns $7 45 Super.

The manual for the pistol said no +P ammo, but when I told the factory what I was doing, they sent me free parts:)

Anyway, when I was working up the load, the rear firing pin cover would shake off. I modified it's retainer pin. Then I developed a flinch. I would punch my right shoulder forward every time I pulled the trigger. And I would do that with ANY pistol. I built up a 42 pound triple recoil spring assembly with a nail, a washer, Silver solder, a nut I machined to be round instead of hex, three springs from a Wolff gunsmith pak #14 with the middle spring in left hand twist, and a die to form threads on the nail. This recoil spring assembly made the chamber come up empty, as I realized the spring could accelerate the light slide past the magazine faster than the magazine spring could push up the next round. So I used two magazine springs in the same magazine. That makes the magazine hard to load, and it holds one less round, but that worked. That 42 pound spring assembly is just right for +P, but with 460 Roland loads, the slide slam is low enough to be ok, and my flinch and the rear firing pin cover problems are gone. I have gone past the 460 Rowland level with that pistol
0) 45 acp................. 185 gr. 7.6 gr. AA#5 jams w/stock Patriot
spring
1) 45 acp..................185 gr. 10.2 gr. AA#5 1100 fps 18,000psi
2) 45 acp +P...............185 gr. 10.8 gr. AA#5 1200 fps 21,700 psi
3) 45 Super................185 gr. 12.4 gr. AA#5 1312 fps 28,000 cup
4) 460 Rowland............ 185 gr. 14.5 gr. AA#5 1500 fps 38,800 cup
5) Patriot [20 ounce little 45]: 185 gr. 14.8 gr. AA#5 1530 fps, 40,000 cup

I have only shot 185 gr. FMJ wad cutter bullets in the Patriot.

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

emc
June 29, 2004, 12:17 PM
I have the Para 6.45 Carry, and have been pretty happy with it. Shoots nicely, recoil is not a problem, and it's been reliable with a variety of loads. They're not cheap, but since when has that ever stopped gun nuts like us? :D The only real drawback is that the magazines are specific to the pistol. I'm not aware of any other firms making them.

FWIW,

emc

W Turner
June 29, 2004, 04:48 PM
Clark- all I can say is...................:what:


Those are insane pressure levels for such a little gun.


So, do they " clank" when you walk?


W

George Hill
June 29, 2004, 05:52 PM
Beretta 8045 Mini Cougar
SIG P245
EAA Witness .45 Compact
Taurus PT145
Charles Daly DDA
Glock has a couple models.
S&W has several options
Magnum Research has one that I like the feel of but I've not had the chance of firing yet, the Baby Eagle .45 semi-compact:
http://www.magnumresearch.com/Expand.asp?ProductCode=MR4500RS


And there are some snub nose .45ACP revolvers out there.

But why rule out single actions? They are every bit as safe as a double action considering that any gun's safety is actually the operator.

George Hill
June 29, 2004, 05:56 PM
Oh Clark... dude... You are seriously nuts to be rolling loads like that.
You remind me of a friend I had growing up who was always experimenting with M-80 fireworks and stuff.

digitalpaladin10
June 30, 2004, 11:13 AM
http://www.bersa-llama.com/img/guns/bersa_thunder45_large.jpg

SA/DA .45

I love my Bersa .380

Homepage (http://www.bersa-llama.com/cat_thunder45.html)

Clark
June 30, 2004, 02:04 PM
I am not nuts, but you would be if you tried to do the things I do all the time.

I have overloaded to see what happens in .223, .243, 25acp, 257 Roberts AI, 32acp, 32sw, 32S&WLong, 32-20, 7.62x25mm, 7.62x39mm 7.62x54R, 8x57mm, .380, 9x19mm, 9x23mm, 357 Sig, 38 sp, 357 mag, 38sw, 40sw, 10mm, 10.4mm, 45acp, 45Colt, 452/70, .410, and 45/70.

Some of those calibers, like 9mm or 45 acp were with half dozen gun designs.


It is like Steve Irwin, the crocodile hunter, came to American, had a rattle snake strike at him 4 times, 5 seconds later said, "You look like you're done.", picked the snake up and held it 1" from his nose and said into the camera, "I have never been injected with poison by a snake."

Likewise, when I overload guns every day to see what happens and never get hurt, it is because I know how to do it.

You would be nuts to try it.

JoeRapture
June 30, 2004, 02:46 PM
I love my P245. I bought it from a guy that hated it. Apparently, this a pistol you either love or hate. The grip is short, sorta like a Glock M-26. The magazines have a pinky extension. It took me a while to get used to the balance of the P245. You might not like it if you're used to that big handful of HK. Best of luck!

halvey
June 30, 2004, 02:47 PM
^^^^^^^
:banghead:

JoeRapture
June 30, 2004, 02:55 PM
I love my P245. I bought it from a guy that hated it. Apparently, this a pistol you either love or hate. The grip is short, sorta like a Glock M-26. The magazines have a pinky extension. It took me a while to get used to the balance of the P245. You might not like it if you're used to that big handful of HK. Best of luck!

StopTheGrays
June 30, 2004, 11:20 PM
http://www.taurususa.com/imagesMain/H_145BP.jpg
How about a Taurus Millennium Pro? Anybody hear anything good or bad about them?

JoeRapture
July 1, 2004, 03:24 AM
Sorry 'bout the double post guys. Not sure what happened. Operator error I assume.

Morgan
July 1, 2004, 06:28 AM
http://www.swfirearms.vista.com/userimages/103014_large.jpg

If you enjoyed reading about "very compact double action .45acp?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!