[Dbl0Kevin]

Ok so if things work out like they should and I end up getting this job in New Mexico I'll have the option to carry a personal duty gun if I choose. This has caused me to be like a little kid in a candy shop and I've been having a hard time coming up with what I'd carry. So today I decided I would take some time and make a chart of all the desirable options and check off which of my choices had which. Here's what I came up with:

(I'm not even going to get into caliber yet....that's another issue :D)

Guns: Glock, HK USP, Sig 229/226, Para Ord, Single Stack 1911

Reliablity: All ok, but Para's are questionable

Capacity: 1911 comes up short here

Manual Safety: USP, Para, and 1911

Flashlight Rail: Glock, and USP

Weight: Glock and USP

Trigger: Para and 1911.....not sure on USP or Sig

Laser Grips/LaserMax: All guns

Compatibility w/ backup gun: Glock

Bulk: Glock

Accuracy: Sig and 1911

Price: Glock


Ok so here's the rundown so far:

Glock: 8 points
HK USP: 6 points
Sig 229/226: 4 points
Para Ord: 4 Points
1911: 5 Points

Is there anything I'm missing or do any of you disagree with the advantages I've given to each of the guns? I have question marks on the trigger pulls of both the HK and the Sig because it's been a while since I've handled either and don't really remember how heavy the DA pull is on the first shot. I'm really not a big fan of heavy DA triggers at all which is why I really like 1911's. But I don't want to sacrifice the capacity of the other guns and the Para's reputation for reliability is sketchy at best.

Also another big thing the Glock has in its favor is the baby glock's as a backup system. I love the fact that they are so concealable plus hold 9/10 rounds of .40 cal or .45 cal AND they can use the full size mags of their big brothers. That's really a hard feature to beat.

So what say the rest of you? I still can't decide!! :banghead:

Edit: ok the chart really got screwed up and didn't come out the way I wanted so I had to just write it out. :cuss:

[Jim March]

My top choice:

http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=294735&item=831437&sw_activeTab=3

Eight-shot 357 with moon-clip reloads.

Yes, it's a revolver.

[Dbl0Kevin]

ewwwwwww a revolver!?! :neener:

[Desert Shooter]

Look again at the Sigs. The newest models have rails.

[Josey]

I would use the Sig 226 from your list. HK USP or SOCOM second.

[Dbl0Kevin]

Look again at the Sigs. The newest models have rails.

Ya know I just noticed that tonight.....but man they make them look damn ugly. lol

[CRridermike]

i dont know cause i dont have any of those but my favorite are H&K's and 1911's. looks at kimber 1911's. the Sig's with rails are Sig Pro's, i think they are ugly, if you want a plastic gun get a H&K or Glock.

[Dbl0Kevin]

Here's the new sig with the rails on it. Not a sig-pro, but i just can't get used to the looks of it.

[Plinkerton]

I like it. That's the next gun on my friends buy list. Except in stainless. I would be sure you wouldn't regret that one...

[strambo]

Sig 1911 with rail :D

http://www.sigarms.com/products/gsr.asp

[Black Majik]

Trigger: Para and 1911.....

LOL... I like how Para's aren't considered 1911's. http://socalsportbikes.com/xmb/images/smilies/thumb.gif

My pick would be something in .45 ACP. Preferably a 1911, but take a good look into the Sig P220ST. It also has a lightrail.

If you wanna be simple, and lightweight with a lightrail, take a good look at the Glock 23.

[denfoote]

Will not your new department have an approved list???
I know that here in AZ, departments who make their officers buy their own duty weapons, have such a list. Specifically, the Maracopa County Sheriff's office has such a policy. Officers can either accept the department issue or choose from the approved list. You might want to find out first!! You don't want to be stuck with an expensive new gun that you cannot use, a brand new job, and having to go out and buy another one!! (not that owning two guns is a bad thing. But it might make the difference between eating steak and top Raman for those first two weeks!!!)

Liability concerns are a really big headache for the top brass.

[WhoKnowsWho]

You should find out what they carry there too. If you need mag/ammo from someone else in a emergency, your partner would be the closest source hopefully.

[jc2]

If you have no approved list, or if it is on your approved list, you really ought to check out the Springfield Armory XD. It combines the best features of all your candidates. It would just about ace you list.

[Nick_90]

Without hesitation, if choosing a gun for carry on which I must depend, I would chose the Sig. I own many guns and all have their advantages but Sigs have one wich surpasses the others: 100 % realibility!

[Checkman]

Can't go wrong with Sig. That's what I carry (P220/245). Good luck.

[Universal]

In my opinion a GLOCK would be your best choice. That is what I carried and I went through basic, FI school and many other firearms schools with. I also served as a partime instructor at the state police academy and saw a lot of students going through basic. The only thing I ever saw go wrong with a GLOCK was the front sight falling off. If you chose to go with the GLOCK, do yourself a favor and get some sort of steel sights. I used to be a big supporter of both H&Ks and Sigs but I saw too many problems with both after long range sessions. I can recall at least three H&Ks not locking back the slide back after the last round and my partner during FI school had so many problems with his Sig 229 that he went out and got a GLOCK as soon as we got back. I am not trying to bash Sigs and H&Ks but I have not been very impressed with either. I know many officers who shoot both and love them and have never had problems. As you mentioned, GLOCK does also win with regards to price. As a Law Enforcement officer you can buy a GLOCK for around $400 and get the night sights for $50-70 extra.

Good luck.

[Dbl0Kevin]

Will not your new department have an approved list???

Nope already asked that. As long as it meets the caliber requirements of being above a .380 and you can qualify with it you are good to go. I noticed one of the guys carrying a 1911 when I was out there and was like "ummmm that's not issued is it???". Then the officers I was with told me you could carry whatever you wanted as long as you qualify and it's above a certain caliber.


As for what they issue it's a full size Glock .357 or a Glock 9mm if you would rather have that. They will also give you the weapon light if you choose to use it. Not really a bad deal at all, but I was looking to see if anything would be better.

I really don't mind buying more guns, as I plan on buying most of them anyway being a gun guy. :D

As for reliability most people around here carry Glocks, and I qualified with a Glock 23 which never jammed once on me, though I"m not a big fan of the trigger pull on them. I suppose I could get used to it. I have no problem in combat shooting, but I'll sometimes push one off at 25 yards cause of all the slack in the trigger.

I have always loved Sigs and have always said they would be my carry gun if I had a choice. BUT a Sgt. who is a good friend of mine came from a Dept that used Sigs and he said if you didn't keep them meticulously clean they would have problems, unlike the Glocks which you could let dirty up for 6 months and they'd still fire. So that's why I sat down and made the chart.....the Glock definately has a lot of good features. I REALLY like the baby glock as a backup that can take the full size mags. Only thing that I really don't like about it is the trigger and no manual safety.

[jc2]

Only thing that I really don't like about it is the trigger and no manual safety.
You really owe to yourself then to check out the Springfield XD and the baby XD.

[4v50 Gary]

There are advantages to department issue. If you're involved in a shooting, the gun will be confiscated as evidence. Better a department gun than your own. If it needs servicing, the Dept. Armorer can service it and if it's your own, (s)he may not have the parts or training and you must drop it off at the gunsmith & pay for it yourself (and wait).

BTW, if the dept. doesn't issue a vest, save your ducats for a vest first.

[Dbl0Kevin]

I was thinking along those same lines Gary. Kinda hard to turn down a gun that's right up there as one of your top choices when those facts are presented.

[bradvanhorn]

BUT a Sgt. who is a good friend of mine came from a Dept that used Sigs and he said if you didn't keep them meticulously clean they would have problems, unlike the Glocks which you could let dirty up for 6 months and they'd still fire.

I don't think you have to keep Sigs "meticulously" clean, but that's never been a problem with me anyway, because I take care of my guns (which means cleaning them in my opinion).

I saw a Glock the other day that had about 10,000 rounds through it (over about five years time) without a major cleaning. However, I was seeing it because the gun would no longer function, and the gunsmith I was visiting had it fully disassembled and was detailing every single component of the gun. Of course the gun functioned like new once he finished cleaning it.

So, if you'd rather have a gun that will function without any routine maintenance, then get the Glock. Otherwise the Sig will be fine.

[WT]

If they issue Glocks in 9mm, why not just stay with the Glock 17 or Glock 19? Many agencies seem to have a lot of success with those pistols.

[Dbl0Kevin]

If they issue Glocks in 9mm, why not just stay with the Glock 17 or Glock 19? Many agencies seem to have a lot of success with those pistols.

I'm not really a big 9mm fan. If I want capacity I'll go with .40 cal or maybe the .357 sig which has been gaining my interest lately. Otherwise the .45 has always been a favorite for me.

[Black Snowman]

I wouldn't hesitate to use their Glock, let it get torn up and abused with their light, and take the money I save to buy more collection guns or the baby-Glock backup. It's not my first choice in a sidearm, but it's certainly not my last. I'd trust the Glock in those circumstances and you can't beat the price.

[krept]

I'd give ten extra points to the one that fits my hand and points the most naturally for me.

I'd short list right away by deciding definitively whether or not you want a manual safety.

cheers

[Plinkerton]

You really owe to yourself then to check out the Springfield XD and the baby XD.

I think so too. I have heard too many good things about these to not consider one.

[Dbl0Kevin]

I always thought the XD's were ugly glock look-a-likes, but I have also noticed them getting a lot of praise lately. They still lack the manual safety and I doubt their trigger is much better than a Glock......but I guess it wouldn't hurt to handle one. Who knows....I might like the damn thing.

Edit: As I thought:

Trigger Pull: 5.5 to 7.7 lbs. Ultra Safety Assurance (USATM) action trigger system

Somehow I bet it'll be just as sloppy as a Glock as well.

[The Reverend]

Why would a light rail be a major factor for you?

Are you going to carry a light consistently on your sidearm?

If not the light rail would not be an issue. Besides, a full size mag light would be a handy thing to have in certain situations anyway.


Having experience with all of the firearmsyou mentioned although not in a LE capacity, I would pick either SIGs or S&Ws without question. But I pick my personal defence firearms with less complicated restrictions. The single most important factor it finding what fits me best. All of the guns you list are good guns, but all are radically different in form and function. This is the single most important tool you will have on your belt, and because of that it needs to be unique to you in the best possible ways. Your level of experience will also play a factor. If you are not a "gun nut" like many of us, the Glock may be the better choice due to its simplicity in its manual of arms.

The arguments revolving around 9mm vs. .40 vs .357 vs .45 are tired and the reality is ALL have good track records. Narrow your field down to 2 or 3 and then start asking questions.

God Bless and thanks for your desire to serve.

[Dbl0Kevin]

Rev, I'm most definately a gun nut.....I didn't get nicknamed "Tackleberry" during the police academy for nothing. :D

As to the flashlight mount, yes I was planning on carrying a tac light on my sidearm while on duty. I hadn't really thought about it until I went out to NM for a ride-along and the officer I was with had a tac light on his Glock that the dept had issued him along with the holster to fit it. This seemed like a darn good idea after thinking about it.

One would think being a gun nut would make the choice easier......WRONG. I like something different about all the choices and it's making it very hard to pick ONE of them. :banghead:

[bradvanhorn]

...I doubt their trigger is much better than a Glock...

Somehow I bet it'll be just as sloppy as a Glock as well.


Oh are you in for a surprise. There is absolutely no similarity between the XD and Glock trigger pull. For a stock trigger, the XD is almost light and smooth. The Glock? Not...

[denfoote]

As long as it meets the caliber requirements of being above a .380 and you can qualify with it you are good to go.

Two words.
Glock 21!!
Kinda hard to beat 13 (I think) rounds of .45ACP!!! :D

[Correia]

Whichever one you personally shoot the best with = 10,000 points. :)

[RonS]

If I could go back to chasing tail lights for a living my choice would be a Springfield XD. I just bought a XD9 Sub Compact for CC and I am very impressed. For uniform carry I would pick a 5" .357 SIG and add nightsights and a combo light/laser. Holsters are starting to become more common, including uniform/security holsters.

I realize that Croatia isn't as sexy as Austria, but that's OK, there was a time in history when American smallarms were considered second rate to British, too.

Good luck, and keep your head straight, it's your best tool.

[Handgunr]

Kevin,

Although I've never been a real Glock lover, I attended their Armorer's school, and had many who carried them on our range. When the Mod27 came out, I bought one for undercover drug use and it was a great package for concealed carry.
9mm isn't my thing, but I did like my .40.

I have to agree on the Springfield XD though. I haven't shot one as yet, but I did have the 1911 Springfield for a couple years and in my opinion, it was better than the Colts.
If the XD is half as good as they report, I think that it'll give Glocks a run for their money.
By the way, we did have one incident on the range several years ago regarding a Glock. A basic training academy was using our range and one of the young recruits tried to holster his Glock .40 with his finger still on the trigger. Shot himself in the butt cheek.
Luckily it was hardball ammo and the round went straight through ricocheting off the floor. Missed his scyatic nerve by 1/2".
Needless to say, it wasn't on my watch.

I guess no gun is rookie proof.


Bob

[armoredman]

CZ PO1, or did I already say that?

[Dbl0Kevin]

Oh are you in for a surprise. There is absolutely no similarity between the XD and Glock trigger pull. For a stock trigger, the XD is almost light and smooth. The Glock? Not...

Dammit.....i really really wanted to not like those things since they just seem so ugly to me. lol Looks like I'll have to check one out now....who knows maybe they'll grow on me like the Glocks did.

[Dienekes]

There may well be some sort of an "approved" list you will have to work from. Dept. issue is a good thing if the piece works for you. Ergonomics matter a lot. If the gun fits you--really fits you--everything gets a lot easier and you will have a lot more confidence as a result.

Case in point--I carried a wheelgun for years after I could have opted for a semiauto, just because it was stone reliable and fit my hand like it grew there. I still carry it in retirement for the same reasons.

Early on I carried a LW Commander but had to give it up. Never really went back to the 1911 platform for serious carry, but did futz around with Glocks and SIGs as an instructor/armorer. Never could learn to love or hit well with the Glocks, and the SIG 220 is about 10% too big for my small hand. OTOH, I have been playing with a Ruger P97 of late and for me it's very "user-friendly". So it's a very individual thing ( contrary to what the bean-counters think).

Ditto on the vest and get all the street-survival training (Calibre Press, etc.) you can. Those two things are more important than guns & bullets.

[Roadkill Coyote]

I work for a smaller, relatively rural agency. We have fairly wide lattitude in choosing our duty weapons. It has been my observation, over the years, that most of our deputies end up carrying something other than their initial choice. I don't think that it's due to the failings of any particular weapon. Instead I think that most people have a much better idea of what they want out of a duty weapon after they carry one for a year or two.

I think you would be crazy not to take the Department's Glock and use it for the first year or so. During that time you can shoot everybody elses at quals and watch as your fellow officers conduct a year long torture test before your very eyes. In the interim, you've got more money for the excellent training recommended by Messer Dienekes. Make it to the Calibre Press Seminar as soon as you get the opportunity.

[Andrew Wyatt]

you can get add on rails for 1911s.

what about a BHP in .40 or 9mm? they make rails for those, as well.

[RWK]

What Jim March suggested !!!

[lbmii]

Use the Department issue 357 Glock and buy a Baby 357 Glock to match it.

Glocks are popular because they are very good firearms.

[Gabe]

I dunno about the 627. You can already get a 7-shot K frame, why go to a N frame for one more shot? It would take a miracle for PDs to drop autos for revolvers.

[1goodshot]

Which of the guns do you shoot the best? That would be the gun you should get. Go to a range that has rental guns and try them before you buy them.

[Dbl0Kevin]

Well I THINK that I've finally come up with a decision. After thinking about this long and hard I've decided to go with a 1911 since it was the first gun I've ever shot and have practiced with one since I was 14. I know the gun like the back of my hand and can probably do anything to it with my eyes closed. I've always liked the single action trigger pull, the natural pointability, manual safety, and the .45 acp cartridge. I figure that with an 8 round mag and 1 in the chamber that would give me 9 shots of .45 which ain't half bad, and I'll just carry 4 extra mags instead of 2 as I have no problem with quick mag changes since it's like second nature to me. I've also solved the only real advantage of the Glock that was keeping me coming back to it......the backup gun. So unless something comes along to change my mind here are my primary and backup weapons:

http://www.kimberamerica.com/images/pistols/customtle_II.jpg

backed up by:

http://www.kimberamerica.com/images/pistols/ultracarry_II.jpg

After I can afford both of them of course. :D

[Coronach]

1. You are very fortunate to belong to a dept that allows you to chose your duty weapon. Take advantage of this if you don't like the issued weapon. If the issued weapon is fine, go with it. That will be anything between $400-600 in your pocket, which you can use for other things. Like ammo. Or a vest. Or a BUG.

2. 'Pretty' should not be one of your search criteria. Pretty is as pretty does. This is a duty gun, not a look-cool gun.

3. Go with the one you shoot best. Caliber wars are stupid. If you shoot a 9mm like a pro and shoot a .45 with less accuracy, go with the 9mm.

4. Light rails are a GOOD THING. I'm convinced that anyone who thinks they're hyped tactical BS has never done a no-light scenario with a flashlight (as opposed to just lining up and shooting targets in the dark). Oh you have? Great. How many times did you reload? If you managed to keep your gun on target, the target illuminated and got your weapon reloaded quickly, I wanna know where you had your third arm installed.

One of the lights (M3?) has a belt clip where you can keep it on your belt and use it as a handheld flashlight, and then clip it on your sidearm in about 1 second. Me, personally? I'd leave it on the gun 24/7 and carry a maglight on my belt. Best of both worlds.

5. This is important. Take in all of the firearm advice from your fellow LEOs with a nod and a smile. And then chuck it into the dumpster until you can figure out who knows their arse from a rabbit hole and who is prone to telling tall tales. Many cops are not shooters, and all cops like to tell war stories. And no war story is better then the bulletproof suspect, who shrugged of 30 rounds of X and eventually succumed to being shot in the pinky with one round of Y. The close 2nd-place story is how Gun Z always runs but gun W is a jammomatic. Coming in third is how Ultra Black Ninja ammo will blow a hole in a suspect's chest a foot in diameter, but Mega Super Tactical ammo just bounces off.

6. Practice.

7. Practice.

8. Practice.

9. Practice.

10. Practice.

[Tango Sierra]

I also recommend that you check the department's list of approved guns and calibers. I got an excellent deal on a LNIB Springfield XD-357Sig because a guy didn't check to see if the .357Sig caliber was an approved round. He never even shot it and had to trade it in on a XD .40S&W. You should add the XD to your list of considerations. I like the XD trigger better than the stock Glock trigger; it's much smoother but the Glock has a shorter reset. Even my LEO neighbor who has always preferred Glock over other brands thought so when he tried my XD. Both the Glock and XD trigger's can be improved but a lot of department's don't allow trigger modifications.

See if you can rent or shoot someone else's guns before you decide. Hand fit really helps when it comes to shooting well.

What ever brand of gun you buy, no matter how good it's reputation is, be sure and fire a few hundred rounds of what ever your duty ammo will be to make sure it's reliable before carrying it for self defense. Of all my guns, my SIG Sauer P220 is my least reliable. That doesn't mean SIG doesn't deserve it's reputation for reliability but any brand can have it's lemons. It's better to be safe than sorry.

I'd say take the department issued Glock and as you add guns to your personal gun nut collection you will find the one you like best and then qualify with it for carry duty.

I've been composing this reply while reading through this thread and now see you've made your choice. When my son joined his department two years ago he chose an H&K USP45. Most of the officers in his department carried Glocks and the chief carried a USP (which my son didn't know when he made his choice). The department has started to send a few officers at a time to an advanced firearms training school and six of those guys switched to 1911s after attending the training.

[Dbl0Kevin]

I'd say take the department issued Glock and as you add guns to your personal gun nut collection you will find the one you like best and then qualify with it for carry duty.

That's about what I was going to do. Though I'm sure the first on the list will be the Kimber's that I posted above. After I get them and test them out for a while as long as they live up to expectations and are reliable then I'll probably switch over to them as the duty weapon. Unless of course by some chance something else comes along that I like better.