Boycotts


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bamf
June 28, 2004, 01:29 AM
This is something I've had on my mind

I agree whole heartedly on the idea of boycotting a company or product based on their funding to the anti-RKBA movement (paypall) or bad customer service (ie. the Lee thread). Making our opinions known through our dollars, letters and word of mouth is the best way to go.

/Rant on

But what I really don't understand, while the same people who will boycott Lee or Paypal, they'll still happily buy a Norinco (Chi com) products, and be happy about the money they saved. Now these guys didn't simply give money to MMM or Brady Handgun Inc, or insult a fellow member, they attempted to sell ballistic missles to Iran and who knows what else to enemies of this country that can and most likely be used to kill our soldiers.

On the anniversary of D-day, I went to the D-day museum here in NO and met many veterans. People of that generation gave and gave to the war, they rationed everything to make sure our boys could win.

But now, not sheeple idiots but fellow RKBA freedom lovers who to want save a buck so much that they'll buy a gun from anyone. How can we as freedom loving Americans accept and applaud people buying and thereby supporting the enemy?

/Rant off

I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

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Dbl0Kevin
June 28, 2004, 01:40 AM
I'd have to say it's a matter of simple economics. Everybody WANTS to make a statement with our dollars and not do business with companies that we don't agree with but sometimes we just plain can't afford to. I'd really rather not use Ebay, but when I can get something I want off of there for less than half of what I'd pay elsewhere it's really hard to pay all that extra money when I really don't have it to waste.

Same goes for Norinco guns. While yeah it would be great to make a statement against them. Most people here like guns and want to shoot. If you can't afford a more expensive gun than a Norinco and you want to have some enjoyment of your hobby you're gonna hold your nose and do it. Just my .02 YMMV.

Justin
June 28, 2004, 02:18 AM
On the anniversary of D-day, I went to the D-day museum here in NO and met many veterans. People of that generation gave and gave to the war, they rationed everything to make sure our boys could win. Um, what does this have to do with buying products made in China?



As to the whole 'mericans shouldn't buy products from China debate, instead of getting into a protracted argument that won't go anywhere, I'll simply paraphrase economic luminary Frederich Bastiat:

When goods don't cross borders, armies will.

bamf
June 28, 2004, 02:49 AM
Justin,

Well my point all be it vague was that people of that generation put up with hardships and did it with pride. People now, won't put up another a few extra dollars to buy something that doesn't go to support a company who is selling missles to our enemies. A company insults a member over a $40 purchase, and everyone is there all together, a company attempts to sell ballistic missles, hey its just business.

Now I'm not saying all Chinese products, never did... otherwise I don't think you could ever step into a Walmart...I'm saying this ONE company. I agree completely with you about business and war

Speaking for myself, am not a rich man, grad student who teaches with very little disposible income...but I save what I can and then purchase it and every gun I own is either American or European, hell if I can afford not to go with a Norinco, anyone can.

Majic
June 28, 2004, 04:01 AM
You want to talk about supporting the enemy? Who sided with Iraq when they went to war against Iran? Who supported Russia and China during WWII? Who armed Afganistan when they fought back the USSR? Where has a lot of the people who specialize in the development of the high tech weaponry been educated.
Take a good look in the mirror. We are own worst enemy. Now you want to point out just a small segment of the population.
Today it is a world economy with companies having assets spread all over the globe. No company probably can't say they are entirely one nation. Take their inventory and you will most likely find machinery or parts made from around the world. The biggest lie told today is most likely " I only buy American".

crucible
June 28, 2004, 05:56 AM
If the standard is that one may never deal with another country/entity because they may, at some point in the future, turn against you, then one might as well never deal with anyone, ever. *That* would make us our own worst enemy, not our allying with others against a larger evil of the time.

As far as boycotting, it is difficult in these days to avoid completely products that those country's one want to avoid helping, China being the main one. There's a simple litmus test though that can help sometimes: where does the money go from the selling of that product? Use a Ford car for example: yes parts are used that are manufactured in another country, shoot even some of the vehicles are assembled in other countries. But where is the company located that gets the profit from the sale of the vehicle? Ultimately, it's a US company that gets the lion's share of the profit.

Personally, I avoid ChiCom products whenever possible as I (still) don't like Communists and I especially don't like what they do to thier own people. Sometimes this hurts too: I dearly would love a copy of the Winchester 97 trench gun Norinco makes as I doubt that I'll ever own the real deal, and if I did, I might not want to shoot it anyway. But as I don't want to give any Chicom weapon maufacturers and thier Army Generals (especially) any of my money......

Tshirts and other cheap wares I'll do what I can to pick another country of manufacturer, with the operative being "when I can", which is doggone tough to do sometimes.

The good thing that comes from some Chinese goods success (and yes Virginia, there is some good) is that the more their people prosper-the more they will want the freedom that implies and gives,a nd in fact, the more they will demand it. Already, they are making some strides with property ownership and others....though I don't think there is as much a hunger for western culture there as there was in the former USSR (remember how much blue jeans smuggled over there would get 20-25 years ago?)

Ultimately, one makes his/her own choice-that's one of the great things about being an American: one has the freedom to do so.

Cruc

Majic
June 28, 2004, 06:20 AM
Use a Ford car for example: yes parts are used that are manufactured in another country, shoot even some of the vehicles are assembled in other countries. But where is the company located that gets the profit from the sale of the vehicle? Ultimately, it's a US company that gets the lion's share of the profit.
The profit from selling the unit (the car) goes to Ford, but then Ford has to turn around and pay for the parts it has used in the unit and that comes out of the profit. So in essence the lion's share is spread around to everyone involved with each getting their percentage (based on the total cost of the supplied parts) of the total profit.

Diggler
June 28, 2004, 07:40 AM
If you want one, get a used one. You haven't been able to import Norinco for a while now, so the damage is already done. You're not supporting China when you buy the trench gun off of some private owner at a gun show.

1911Tuner
June 28, 2004, 08:23 AM
The quote:

products, and be happy about the money they saved. Now these guys didn't simply give money to MMM or Brady Handgun Inc, or insult a fellow member, they attempted to sell ballistic missles to Iran and who knows what else to enemies of this country that can and most likely be used to kill our soldiers....
_____________________________

Better stop drivin' your car and start shoppin' for a bicycle...

What do you think that the Saudis and other Mid-Eastern oil producing nations are doin' with a lot of the oil revenues that they get from us? Think that none of it goes to support Al Qaeda or Hamas? Let's have a show of hands for anybody who really believes that the Saudis are our friends and would never support a terrorist organization or domestically-based cell that would blow up our shopping malls or set off a biological device in Mid-Town manhattan.

Where do ya think these rag-tag bands of dirt-poor fanatics get their
money for their training camps and explosives...sellin' girl-scout cookies?
No...They have big money behind them...and guess who has money to
burn over there...


Might be a good idea to start lobbying to reopen the Alaska pipeline
and ignoring the Environmet Ninnies and tree huggers and let the
oil from our OWN reserves stop the flow of our money back to the
kinds of people who flew those planes on Eleven September, Two thousand and One...Let Japan buy the oil that they need from the Saudis
instead of from us while we fund our own destruction by pandering to
the Mid-Eastern OPEC alliance. Let'em drink their oil and see how long the
terrorist operatives can afford to carry the fight to U.S soil.

It might take ridin' a bicycle or a Mo-Ped about half the time. What are you willing to do, America? They're willing to sleep in caves in the winter and eat food that would make most of us puke at the smell of it. What are WE
willing to do?

At least the Chinese sold us something that we can shoot back with....

Cheers all!

Tuner

HankB
June 28, 2004, 08:43 AM
If you're looking for something to boycott, how about boycotting Heinz products? Buy Heinz ketchup, pickles, whatever, and you put money into the pocket of Teresa Heinz KERRY, wife of noted anti-gunner John Kerry.

JPL
June 28, 2004, 10:31 AM
"Take a good look in the mirror. We are own worst enemy."

Sorry, but that's simply a convenient statement based on 20-20 hindsight, but which completely ignores the reality of the times in which those decisions were made.

It's easy to say "Hey, we shouldn't have supported X because 10, 20, 30, or 40 years later they became Y."

But, that stance is really no more logical than complete isolationism.

Sometimes these kinds of unions are an expediency.

World War II was not unlike that. Soviet Russia hadn't spilled over its borders into our most important trading parter -- Western Europe -- that would come later.

The dinking of support for China during WW II is truly perplexing.

China was NOT a Communist nation in during WW II.

The Communists had been driven far into the interior of the nation by the start of the war, and looked like they were going to go down in flames.

It can be said that the United States, by withdrawing support from the Nationalist Chinese after WW II when Chiang Kai Shek asked for it, actually allowed the Communists to come to power.

See the nasty damned if you do, damned if you don't aspect of your argument?

Sorry, but "I can't provide support to this nation because it furthers my goals at this point in time because it might later, at some undefined point in the future, come back to bite me in the ass" isn't a realistic way of conducting any type of policy.

But then again, the United States accepted help from the French during the Revolutionary War, and they've been dinking us ever since.

What the hell were those dead white morons thinking? :)

TechBrute
June 28, 2004, 11:05 AM
Everybody WANTS to make a statement with our dollars and not do business with companies that we don't agree with but sometimes we just plain can't afford to. That pretty much says it all.

It seems this thread is going two different directions:
1) Boycotting anti-RKBA companies.
2) Buying "Made in USA" stuff.

I'm really not sure how these topics are related, but I'd like someone to point out how to buy only "Made in USA" stuff.

treeprof
June 28, 2004, 11:55 AM
I have NO regard for Kerry or his wife, but neither she nor the rest of the Heinz's have much of a stake in Heinz the company.

http://www.heinz.com/jsp/presidential_statement.pdf

Or, should we boycott any company whose stock is held in any amount by our political opposites?

Ed
June 28, 2004, 11:56 AM
Ya know something that I think is funny is the people who hold grudges about miniscule stuff for way to long. "back in 1970 this company did this" Well that is all they base it on. Politics within companies change over time. There is new management and they may be totally different. If you're gonna boycot, make sure it makes sence. And make sure that your reasons are still valid.

And yes I have realized that I have been guilty of this too in some cases.

shermacman
June 28, 2004, 12:07 PM
Ditto JPL! Well said!
Remember, those of you casting about for 'purity of thought' that George Washington was a commanding officer in the British army before he fought them off of the continent. France and Germany were their own biggest trading partners before both WW1 and WW2. Things change, life changes, people change, countries change.

nero45acp
June 28, 2004, 12:13 PM
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I'd really like to see firearms/shooting enthusiasts PUBLICLY boycott (doing business with/vacations/conventions ect...) states that are anti-RKBA. A number of special interest groups have used this type of tactic with some success. Personally, I don't want to contribute to any government (federal,state. or local) trying to deprive me of my constitutional RKBA.:banghead:


nero

JPL
June 28, 2004, 12:39 PM
I just read the Heinz statement.

I would be nice if they could have gotten the facts straight on how John Heinz died.

He was on board a light aircraft that was struck by a helicopter.

He wasn't in a helicopter.

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