(CA) MTN Lion shot after attacking woman


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gunsmith
June 28, 2004, 03:11 AM
At least these folks had knives. They are still telling folks not to carry guns in the great outdoors!
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/3467221/detail.html
Woman Loses Right Eye In Mountain Lion Attack
Friend Stabs Lion With Knife

POSTED: 8:09 pm PDT June 27, 2004

LOS ANGELES -- A 27-year-old Santa Monica woman who was attacked by a mountain lion while hiking in central California was transferred to UCLA Medical Center on Sunday, officials said.http://images.ibsys.com/2004/0628/3467168.jpg
Shannon Parker suffered deep lacerations to her right thigh and injuries to both eyes during the attack Saturday, officials with the California Department of Fish and Game said. Parker lost her right eye and underwent reconstructive surgery Sunday morning, said Lt. Nathaniel Arnold of the Fish and Game department.

Parker's family has asked UCLA not to release any information on her condition, said Rachel Shampeau, hospital spokeswoman. Parker was initially taken to Kern Medical Center in Bakersfield.

Parker was hiking with her boyfriend, Mathias Maciejewski, 28, of Los Angeles and two other male friends about 7 p.m. near Johnsondale, about 15 to 20 miles north of Kernville, when the female lion attacked her, said Steve Martarano, another spokesman for the Department of Fish and Game. Maciejewski stabbed the lion with a knife and Jason Quirino, 30, of Los Angeles, and Ben Aaron Marsh, 15, of Los Angeles, threw rocks at the animal until it ran off, Martarano said.

The lion, which weighed about 70 pounds, left a bloody trail as it fled and was later shot and killed by U.S. Forest Service officers and wardens from the Fish and Game department, Martarano said.

Officials will do a necropsy Monday to rule out rabies and determine whether the animal was otherwise sick or injured, Martarano said. Officials could have results as early as Tuesday, he said.

A 2002 wildfire in the area could have hampered the lion's ability to find enough food, he said.

"The lion appeared to be emaciated," Martarano said. "Before the fire, (the area) was considered moderate to good mountain lion and deer habitat. The fire changed everything" he said, but added that the area had recently started to revive.

Martarano said the incident was the 15th mountain lion attack on a human in California since 1890.

In January, a mountain lion mauled two people in separate attacks at an Orange County wilderness park. Bike rider Mark Reynolds, 35, was killed and Anne Hjelle, 30, was rescued by her cycling partner, who held onto her legs, and other mountain bikers who threw rocks at it. Hjelle was hospitalized for weeks and likely will require several surgeries in the years ahead.

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Black Majik
June 28, 2004, 04:08 AM
Maybe California will impose open carry while hiking... :o



















.... wishful thinking...

carpettbaggerr
June 28, 2004, 04:23 AM
the incident was the 15th mountain lion attack on a human in California since 1890. How many of those were in the last year? I'm guessing at least 7. And that would be as many attacks as the last 110 years. 3 in the last 6 months alone. Anybody else see a problem here?

The_Antibubba
June 28, 2004, 05:49 AM
California has lots of people.

We only have a few mountain lions.

The chanting of the Patchouli Patrol should be heard anytime now...

Missouri Mule
June 28, 2004, 07:24 AM
All they really need to do is ban hiking! :D :D :D :D

TarpleyG
June 28, 2004, 10:14 AM
A 2002 wildfire in the area could have hampered the lion's ability to find enough food, he said.
And the cycle continues. Ironic, huh? Treehuggers don't want anyone cutting down the trees so a fire is inevitable to babalnce things out. The fire destroys all the cat's food but you can't shoot the poor things, even though they are starving, because of the treehuggers. I have an idea--let's shoot the treehuggers. Problem solved.

Greg

sturmruger
June 28, 2004, 11:34 AM
Isn't it amazing how cut and dry things can be for you and I, but for the treehugger everything is so complicated. They would probably want to do a 3 year study, have a public forum to discuss ideas and then make a decision.

I would find a couple of logging companies and send them out there to thin things out a bit. We could have things improving in a just a few months.

Harry Tuttle
June 28, 2004, 12:46 PM
gtlbud
05-18-2004, 3:47 AM

The last couple of years, I have noticed abuse with mountain lions. They do not have any motive or any intention of hurting anyone. They roam into town, not knowing that their may be children etc..That lion tonight on the news shot off the tree, did it for me. I am so angry. Police officers must keep a trangilizer gun at all times. this should be STANDARD California Protocol. They aim to kill regardless of any agressive behavior. Why not shoot the legs? I am so angry I will start a coalition against the police. You should have take a poll on that, and made it important. Do you know how many people that affects. What kind of law enforcement has no phone to call in the humane society to tranqulize the animal. She was just relaxing on a branch. This could be handled more professional. I will not give up. You must must must get the community to understand. That was murder. MURDER. I want you to bring it up in the news and act like you care about it as well. show compassion

http://forums.ibsys.com/viewmessages.cfm?sitekey=dgo&Forum=503&Topic=9670

4v50 Gary
June 28, 2004, 01:14 PM
The_Antibubba - your logic is almost perfect. It isn't that CA has too many people & too few lions. Rather, CA has too many radical left wingers and not enough hungry lions. When the balance is restored politically, then we can begin the lion hunts - for the children; of course.

El Tejon
June 28, 2004, 01:35 PM
SHOOT . . . THE . . . CRITTERS!:mad:

The_Antibubba
June 28, 2004, 02:55 PM
LMAO! That is a perfect imitation-you hit every one of their lame arguments. "Hit them in the legs"! Hahahahahahaha!

You did make that up, right?


RIGHT?









Oh, crap. :uhoh:

Frohickey
June 28, 2004, 03:06 PM
And the cycle continues. Ironic, huh? Treehuggers don't want anyone cutting down the trees so a fire is inevitable to babalnce things out. The fire destroys all the cat's food but you can't shoot the poor things, even though they are starving, because of the treehuggers. I have an idea--let's shoot the treehuggers. Problem solved.

When does the season start, and how much for tags? :p :D :evil:

Standing Wolf
June 28, 2004, 05:41 PM
You must must must get the community to understand. That was murder. MURDER.

I'm sure I'll always miss the temperate climate and the beaches; as for the so-called "community," however, and the wild-eyed leftist extremist nut cases...

sendec
June 28, 2004, 07:25 PM
I hope she heals up OK. A good read on cougar/human interaction is Beast in the Garden , the author's name escapes me right now.

Its a shame that these things happen. Predators hunt, that's what they do, so this should suprise no one. While problem cats need to be destroyed, I personally like a little wild in my wildlife. Carrying a gun just evens the odds. If I wanted a "safe" outdoor experience I'd hike around the pasture, where there is'nt anything more dangerous than a cowpie, but what fun would that be?

gbran
June 28, 2004, 08:00 PM
I've hunted in this specific area for years (dear, bear, quail, squirrel, turkey, etc.). It's not uncommon to see bobcats and mountain lions in this area. There is no major development here, except for private and public rec areas. It's beautiful, but it ain't Disneyland and the animals don't have names like Bambi and Sylvester or Yogi.

Cosmoline
June 28, 2004, 08:41 PM
A whole state full of Treadwells. I want to send them a few thousand spare brownies as a memorial tribute to the man. They'd find more than enough to eat.

gunsmith
June 28, 2004, 11:33 PM
Imagine, for a moment, that you are a mountain lion living in the foothills above Mountain View or Palo Alto. Let's say a couple of years ago, you were born along with one or two siblings. Now you are young adults. All you want to do is get away from mom and the rest of the family.

Unfortunately for you, either other mountain lions or, more likely, a ranch or estate owner, has taken all of the view lots and creekside properties in the mountains behind you. So where do you go? Down. Down to the suburbs, cities and towns between Interstate 280 and the bay.

You soon find your life imperiled. Not only by police officers with no training in wild animal control, but by the very same things that endanger all of the humans down here. Drunk drivers and distracted drivers. Muggings, random gunfire, gang shootouts. Pit bulls.

As the mountain lion, you have to negotiate this extremely hostile environment created by the mammals that walk on two legs. Yet, those mammals consider you the threat.

The truth is that every year exponentially more people are killed or injured by one of the hazards of modern life mentioned above than have ever been harmed by a mountain lion. The Department of Fish and Game has verified a total of 12 mountain lion attacks on humans since 1890 -- and just half of these proved fatal.

Every time there is a spate of mountain lion encounters, embittered trophy hunters like to blame 1990's Proposition 117. That initiative, which voters passed into law, placed a permanent ban on sport hunting of mountain lions.

Now, mountain lions suddenly are everywhere -- from Morgan Hill to the East Bay. It seems possible that any day now, someone will come home to find one lounging on the couch, eating an It's-It and watching the Animal Channel.

No one wants to be mauled or have their soft organs dined on by a mountain lion. But encounters with cougars are hardly a surprise when about half of California is considered mountain lion habitat. In all likelihood, the tawny predators are simply looking to get away from their own tribe.

Many people do want to live in or near an ecosystem that is healthy enough to support and maintain a broad range of creatures, not only deer and raccoons. They want the wilds to be just that -- wild. There's something reassuring about knowing that our environment can sustain something besides chemically grown lawns, SUVs and shopping malls.

In California, humans managed to kill off all of the wolves and grizzly bears in the early 20th century. To see what remains of bighorn sheep populations, you need to hike into remote parts of the Sierra or the Anza- Borrego Desert. Elk are confined in remnant populations on a few state and federal lands. Resurrecting the California condor has cost millions of dollars. There are lots of black bears, but they are mostly confined to wooded mountain habitat.

The mountain lion is the last large animal in California that exists in healthy numbers and that inspires wonder, awe and, yes, a little fear. It simply needs to be understood and respected for what is -- a powerful, often hungry, predator.

It also matters that the mountain lion is a major member of the food chain. In recent years, explosions of deer populations in the East have caused an increase in car accidents and deer-borne diseases. According to the Insurance Information Institute, over 20,000 deer were involved in car-related accidents in New Jersey in 2001 or the 51,000 such accidents in Georgia.

One reason deer populations keep growing is that the eastern cougar, along with the timber wolf, was trapped and shot out of existence 100 years ago, except for an inbred remnant population dying out in the swamps of Florida. There is nothing left to control deer except hunters and car bumpers.

If we rid ourselves of the state's last major wild predator, we would be left with a burgeoning deer population likely to spread Lyme disease via ticks and mayhem via our roadways. As it is now, a deer in the road is much more likely to cause an auto accident than a mountain lion is to attack a hiker.

The answer, some hunters might say, is to go at both deer and mountain lions with both barrels blazing. Yet, renewed mountain lion hunting well might eventually wipe the felines out, as it did the gray wolf in almost all of North America.

There is a simpler, less bloodthirsty solution. As with distracted and drunk drivers, as with dangerous pit bulls, what will keep people safe is education and responsibility.

What begins with the smacking of feline lips over a horse or two on the outskirts of town can quickly evolve into the big cats attempting to pick off their domesticated cousins from the back porch of a house just off El Camino Real. The fat tabby that roams the neighborhood should be kept inside. That goes for many pet dogs as well, especially around dawn and dusk, the times mountain lions are most likely to be searching for food.

Certainly, we aren't going to keep children inside, nor should we. This is why law enforcement officers in cities and suburbs bordering mountain lion habitat must have tranquilizing equipment on hand and must kill mountain lions that truly endanger people, just as the law requires.

This is how we should deal with the very rare mountain lion that becomes too neighborly.

John Fall is an East Bay writer.


__________________

Das Pferd
June 28, 2004, 11:50 PM
Anybody else see a problem here?

Ya too many humans enroaching on wild habitat then we wonder why we see "wild" animals in "civilization."

Gunsmith - read my response in your other thread. The guys right.

gunsmith
June 29, 2004, 05:58 AM
The editorial writer is lying. Or he is stupid.
His "stats" are for Ca only and are a few yrs old.
http://www.gf.state.az.us/w_c/mtn_lion_attacks.shtml
I have allways admired the big cats and have been interested in them for a long time.
In the past year I have posted many mountain Lion threads here.do a search and you will see I respect them a great deal.
I have no wish to be kitty chow though,did you know that when Mtn Lions eat humans they eat your face first?.
There is a pretty good book "The beast in the Garden" about the subject.
http://www.beastinthegarden.com/
It's a good read,though I do not agree with the author about guns.
I called into a radio station and asked him about carrying firearms and he said "just go in a group" well that lady in Kernville was in a group and had half her face and an eye gouged out by the big kitty,they chased it away but can't give her a new face can they?

patentmike
June 29, 2004, 09:06 AM
What about the guy carrying the knife, should n't he be arrested?

Stand_Watie
June 29, 2004, 09:40 AM
His "stats" are for Ca only and are a few yrs old.

At least three more, just in the last year.

Question for you math whizzes, 12 attacks over 113 years equals how many attacks per year?

3 attacks in the last year equals what % of an increase over the historical attack rate? Something is definately different in California.

I believe Teddy Roosevelt's assessment of mountain lions quoted in the excerpt of "the Beast in the Garden" referred to above -

“There is no more need of being frightened when sleeping in, or wandering after nightfall through, a forest infested by cougars than if they were so many tom-cats.”

- is essentially correct regarding normal mountain lions. I don't think that these attacks are being done by normal mountain lions, and I believe the reason they are losing their fear of man is because the tree-huggers in California have fundamentally changed the equation between man and lion there.

It's happening with suburban coyotes too, and it's happening in the northeast with black bears.

gunsmith
June 29, 2004, 03:12 PM
What about the guy carrying the knife, should n't he be arrested?
Believe it or not,our CA knife laws are better then Texas knife laws!
Most of CA (even SF ) you can open carry any size knife on your belt and carry concealed any size folder.
For instance my Vaquero Grande cold steel with it's six inch blade is legally concealed on me right now.
If I concealed or open carried a six inch blade in Texas I would be violating the law:cool:

(Of course you guys have superior gun laws and better looking women)

Stand_Watie
June 29, 2004, 10:12 PM
(Of course you guys have superior gun laws and better looking women)

Ha, ha. You smooth talker. You know how to flatter Texans.

4v50 Gary
June 29, 2004, 11:19 PM
SF does have some pretty women, but it, well, never mind.

rayra
June 30, 2004, 12:13 AM
carpettbaggerr
...Anybody else see a problem here? I do. I'm seeing all my stuff re-used from Gunsmith's other mountain lion topic. ;)

carpettbaggerr
June 30, 2004, 10:09 PM
Well, you got me. I read your post in the other thread (dated 6-29-04 at 5:59 am) then I hopped in my time machine to make my own stunningly intelligent and cogent post (dated 6-28-04 at 7:23 am).

:neener:

rayra
July 1, 2004, 12:22 AM
Dang. Just looked, and not even my first post in that other topic - June 28th, 2004 09:24 PM - beat you out.
:neener: Received.

carpettbaggerr
July 1, 2004, 01:36 AM
Great minds think alike. :scrutiny:

Seems people think these cats won't bother humans due to "instinct". But animals are only afraid of humans because they kill them -- without hunting there won't be any fear. And without fear, smaller humans start to look like lunch....

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