which service pistol?


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patentmike
June 28, 2004, 05:30 PM
The Department of Homeland Security is picking a new pistol, let's see if we can predict the outcome, which would you pick and why:
Heckler & Koch,
Glock,
Beretta,
Smith & Wesson,
Sig.

I'd go for the SW99 for two simple reasons. 1. S&W is the only real American company in the running; and 2. the SW99 could fulfill any mission, large .45, or small 9mm, .40. Training would be standard for all three.
The SW99 .45 happens to fit me pretty well too.

http://www.govexec.com/featrues/0604-15/0604-15s1.htm

...Since February, the world's top gun makers have been in a shootout for the right to sell handguns to ICE. In August, after extensive testing at federal armories in Pennsylvania and Georgia, ICE will pick one or more of them to arm its more than 12,000 law enforcement officers. In a novel arrangement, other agencies in the department also will be allowed to buy pistols through the ICE contract. Up to 45,000 gun carriers could get new weapons.

"This is the largest pistol procurement in the history of U.S. law enforcement," says Wayne Weber, a manager with the German firearms giant Heckler & Koch, one of the top-tier firms competing for the five-year, $25 million contract. Besides H&K, Austrian gun manufacturer Glock, Italy's Beretta, and two American-based manufacturers, Smith & Wesson and SigArms Inc., acknowledge vying for the pact....

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boofus
June 28, 2004, 05:58 PM
I'm betting H&K or Sig. Glocks have been getting too much bad press about ADs lately.

SAG0282
June 28, 2004, 06:28 PM
SIG>other manufacturers.

armoredman
June 28, 2004, 07:10 PM
Our Dept of Homeland Insecurity? Hi-Points....

Warbow
June 28, 2004, 07:25 PM
SIG with DAK trigger (yeah, I'm partial to SIGs). :)

geekWithA.45
June 28, 2004, 07:34 PM
I'm guessing Sig, but the S&W 99's have lots n lots of politically correct features on them. :neener:

Penforhire
June 28, 2004, 07:37 PM
S&W but only for political reasons. Doesn't have to be a SW99.

Dbl0Kevin
June 28, 2004, 10:05 PM
I was kinda liking the SW99's for a while there, even though I swore I'd never buy a S&W after their sellout to the Clinton admin. But last year when the NJ State Police were going to switch to them they did absolutely horrible in the testing process and the changeover was scrapped. They decided to go with Sig 228's instead.

patentmike
June 29, 2004, 07:57 AM
If Sigs are the best, the chances are pretty good that beaurocrats will pick something else.

Wiley
June 29, 2004, 05:35 PM
Springfield Mil-spec 1911A1?

Naw, that's too American :banghead:

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
June 29, 2004, 06:50 PM
SIG P229 in 357sig.

Regards,
Rabbit.

Colt46
June 29, 2004, 10:16 PM
Why change?
I'm not talking the 1911 either. M1909 Revolver. What a beast and only standard issue for a few years before that new fangled automatic came into service. Sigh, what I wouldn't pay for one of them.

Burt Blade
June 30, 2004, 08:10 PM
My favorite "service" sidearm is the Remington New Army, aka the 1858 Remington.

:D

Graystar
June 30, 2004, 08:23 PM
Springfield XD in .40. It sickens me when American agencies and military buy arms from other countries.

mustanger98
June 30, 2004, 09:30 PM
My favorite "service" sidearm is the Remington New Army, aka the 1858 Remington.

Why don't we just take 'em all the way back to the Colt's Patterson?:D

StopTheGrays
June 30, 2004, 09:31 PM
FN in 4.7. Why? Cause them gov't F's want something none of us can get. (ie. 20 rd mags):mad:

Lone_Gunman
June 30, 2004, 09:35 PM
Th Dept of Homeland Security is a bunch of bureaucrats. Why do they need guns?

Why do 45,000 guns need to be replaced?

Sounds like more Bush spend, spend, spend! nonsense to me.

Edmond
June 30, 2004, 11:54 PM
Lets see, a bunch of politicians making choices for those that will be put directly in the line of danger... I'd say that they'll go with the cheapest gun.:uhoh:

Brigrat
June 30, 2004, 11:55 PM
Th Dept of Homeland Security is a bunch of bureaucrats. Why do they need guns?


Let's see... Um FPS (Federal Protective Service) is homeland Security, Border Patrol, Coast Guard, and many more law enforcement agancies fall under DHS. All of which carried their own standard firearms before this new Dept. was formed. Standardization is a good thing, and to call these people a bunch of paper pushers is really not accurate.

This is the high road, and more specifically the Autoloaders forum. Save your bashing of my President for forums related to politics or general discussions, besides, Presidents can't Spend Spend Spend, all money comes from the House of Reps, the president only makes recomendations.

There are a number of organizations that are doing there best to keep us safe, and whether you think its a good idea or not, DHS is here to stay. I deal with them quite a bit in my line of work, and let me tell you, they have all been very professional, and deserving of our respect. If this new dept. needs new sidearms, or needs to standardize the sidearms issued throughout the Dept. its fine by me, so long as they pick the best one. I would certainly rather see my tax dollars spent on Homeland security, as was intended by our founding fathers, than being spent as a hand-out for a bunch of unapreciative deadbeats who don't deserve it anyways.

Brigrat
June 30, 2004, 11:57 PM
Lets see, a bunch of politicians making choices for those that will be put directly in the line of danger... I'd say that they'll go with the cheapest gun.

Just like any other organization, they will form a comittee of made up of administrative types, and people from the street, to select there new firearm. They will put the new weapon through a number of test, and teh committee will do there best to pick the best one. What is up with all of you sceptics?

valor1
July 1, 2004, 12:10 AM
Probably the HK for its lightweight. Or the Sigs.

tc300mag1
July 1, 2004, 12:29 AM
ill say Hk or sig maybe Hk cause there building a plant here

Wiley
July 1, 2004, 05:35 PM
What is up with all of you sceptics?

I'm old. I've been around too long. I seen too many bureaucrats and politicians do what's good for themselves not what's good for the country.

When you're old enough, you'll see. :D

Lone_Gunman
July 1, 2004, 05:55 PM
Brigrat,

Thanks for the ass-whipping, but I thought all those various agencies you mentioned already had guns. Lumping them together under Homeland Defense didn't cause their guns to wear out.

Standardization is nice, but how often does it come up that the Border Patrol and the Coast Guard have to interchange weapons parts?

I think it might be nice for them to actually wear out the guns we buy them before they replace them. How often does the Coast Guard actually wear out a service pistol?

When they standardize them, everyone who wasn't already carrying the standard weapon has to re-train. That costs a lot of money too.

I think if we pick a standard sidearm, it should be phased in gradually as other weapons wear out.

TODD3465
July 1, 2004, 06:05 PM
Graystar- When did Croatia become the 51st state I think I missed
something here?

Nothing against the XD though, I'd like one of the "tactical" ones in .357Sig myself.

Hey to keep in with the thread that's my pick as an issue one.;)

patentmike
July 1, 2004, 06:16 PM
From the article I saw, Springfield is not in the running.
As far as HK and Sig go, I don't care if they build plants here, or start subisdiaries, if the ultimate control is overseas and/or the profits go overseas, it's not a US company.
I'm not a knee-jerk "buy American" guy on every product, only when it comes to firearms. IMHO, when the US companies have been run out of business, the antis have won. "Gun control" goes under the radar and becomes "import resitrictions" or "foreign-owned company" regulation.

Graystar
July 1, 2004, 06:36 PM
Graystar- When did Croatia become the 51st state I think I missed I didn't realize they were made out of the country. Forget it then! :banghead:

RickH
July 1, 2004, 08:38 PM
Does this mean that a heap of slightly used guns will be headed to a store near me?

DonGlock26
July 1, 2004, 11:14 PM
Interesting. I read an article in the Glock Annual magazine(2004) that stated the G-17 was becoming the official DHS weapon. U.S. Customs already issue it. William Bell wrote the article.

patentmike
August 26, 2004, 05:51 AM
And the answer is:

SIGARMS® Awarded Major Pistol Contract by U.S. Department of Homeland Security
Up to 65,000 SIG SAUER® pistols to be called into service in the war on terror.
EXETER, NH - Aug 24, 2004 - SIGARMS® Inc. announces that it has been awarded a major five-year contract for up to 65,000 SIG SAUER® pistols by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Office of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). The contract is for the SIG SAUER P239 in DAO and the P226 and P229 Rail pistols with the new DAK™ trigger system in the calibers of 9mm and 40S&W. The contract is valued at $23.7 million.

Ala Dan
August 26, 2004, 06:08 AM
Another vote for SIG!:D

Probably P229's in 9X19, or .40 S&W? :uhoh:

Heck, SIG just makes darn good firearms. :cool:

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

Grunt
August 26, 2004, 08:53 AM
Yup, both the Sig and HK pistols were chosen for the new contracts. Having both Sig and HK handguns in addition to a lot of others as well, I have to agree that they made a good choice. :) I've got 1911s, a SW99, Rugers, Glocks, and a few others as well and I still say the Sigs and H&Ks have the best combination of accuracy, reliability, ruggedness and ergonomics of anything out there.

Rich357
August 26, 2004, 09:07 AM
Glock. Nice range of Glocks to pick from. They are highly reliable and less expensive. Maybe they would like the G37?

SIG would be fine but my second choice.

Rich

jrpeterman
August 26, 2004, 09:32 AM
My guess would be the Glock. Considering the number of pistols needed, it would be hard for other manufacturers to compete with Glock's pricing.

Mark13
August 27, 2004, 06:56 PM
G17, inexpensive, durable, easy to operate, lower ammo training costs.

Angus Podgorney
August 27, 2004, 07:53 PM
It's a moot point as the decision has already been made but do all you guys who say the SW99 because it's American realize the SW99 is really a Walther P99 and just as German as the XD is Croation?

Ed

gbourne
August 29, 2004, 09:52 AM
HK 45f ACP should have been on the list. The tactical guys will need it. Its the 21st century 1911.

wally
August 29, 2004, 10:33 AM
How often does the Coast Guard actually wear out a service pistol?

I'd wager the Coast Gaurd is the hardest on their guns of all the agencies/services because of all the "small boats" and salt water spray they get exposed to on duty.

--wally.

Dave Markowitz
August 29, 2004, 11:38 AM
They should just issue Lugers or PPs, which would fit in better when DHS is renamed Sicherheitsdienst .

Vern Humphrey
August 29, 2004, 07:17 PM
Quote:
-------------------------------------
We've already gotten rid of the best.
Why change?
I'm not talking the 1911 either. M1909 Revolver. What a beast and only standard issue for a few years before that new fangled automatic came into service. Sigh, what I wouldn't pay for one of them.
---------------------------------------

I have one -- that is, I have a Colt New Service, made in 1906,which is basically the same gun, lanyard swivel and all.

Mine had had tiny, unuseable sights, and shot about a foot high and a foot to the left. Since it had been reblued, and all the markings polished out, I didn't cry but put on a 1/8" slab of steel as a new front sight, and then opened up the rear sight groove to sight it in. I like a 255 grain Lee Wide Flat Point bullet, cast of wheel weights and lubed with liquid Alox, driven by 19.0 grains of H4227 for about 1,000 fps muzzle velocity.

Not quite .44 Magnum class, but the deer don't know the difference.

Akurat
August 30, 2004, 01:49 AM
Sounds like more Bush spend, spend, spend! nonsense to me.

Wow. Hard to attack the President on a "Which gun for Dept of Homeland Security" thread. But you seem to have found a way. Good job! (..keep reaching..)


I'd say take the Glock or the SIG in 357.

Warbow
August 30, 2004, 05:43 AM
All right! I guessed one of the contracts correctly! SIGs with DAK triggers. :cool:

Waitone
August 31, 2004, 03:49 PM
SIG gets the contract.

Good news!

Price reductions for SIG products all around. P232's going for the price of a Bersa ! :scrutiny:

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