[shep854]

Hopefully, this exercise in tyranny will end soon, and I've been wondering what direction the shooting industry and sports will go...

Pre-ban, it seemed that makers were racing to see who could cram the most rounds into a workable mag. The ban, with the 10 round mag limits, turned the industry (handguns) toward the sub-compact designs- a GOOD thing, BTW. Will the capacity races start again?

Before the 10rd limit, competition was based on bullet-hoses, the number of BBs being a big factor in winning. Afterward, courses and tactics had to be designed around the limited mags. Will IPSC go back? How far? Will IDPA go hi-cap?

How will the retail end be affected?

Many questions also apply to rifles.

The floor will now take answers

[Dbl0Kevin]

I have a funny feeling that, at least for a good while, manufacturers will be reluctant to go back to the high capacity races and put out all kinds of other goodies. We all know that another AWB will continue to be pushed and it's quite possible that it could pass AGAIN. I hope I'm wrong.....I really do.

[Zak Smith]

Before the 10rd limit, competition was based on bullet-hoses, the number of BBs being a big factor in winning. Afterward, courses and tactics had to be designed around the limited mags. Will IPSC go back? How far?

IPSC/USPSA never really went away from hicap mags. Limited guns still use 140mm mags, which hold 18-20 rounds, and Open gun mags hold about 30 (.38S). They just got more expensive.

[Bobarino]

i was thinking just the opposite. i was figuring on manufacturers cranking out as many "pre-ban" type weapons, accesories and magazines as possible as quickly as possible in case the AWB comes back to life. i guess we'll have to wait until September to see who's right eh?

Bobby

[shep854]

While in a shop the other day, I was told that one of the AR15 makers was making an offer that, if you buy one of their rifles, after 9/14, they will install a flash suppressor at no extra cost.

How many people are buying Berettas on the promise of 2 free full-cap mags after 9/14?

[Zak Smith]

It's Armalite.

[Zundfolge]

I've always found it funny that pre AWB handgun manufacturers where focused on "Wondernines" with their high capacities of 9mm ... then when the AWB cut mags to 10 rds the .45 became king again (particularly in a 1911 style frame).


We now have a wider variety of concealable high power pistols then before the AWB (and all the new CCW states).


So in the eyes of the antis whats worse; a large frame moderate power pistol with high capacty or a tiny "pocket .45"? :neener:



I think we'll see manufacturers focus real heavy on the "evil preban" features because there's a bigger market for them now that big brother has held us back from them for so long.

Irony is if there where no AWB there would probably be less AR15s (and other "assault rifles") in civilian hands.

[Dbl0Kevin]

Irony is if there where no AWB there would probably be less AR15s (and other "assault rifles") in civilian hands.

That is pretty funny isn't it? Just like anything else, if you tell me I can't have it I just want it all the more. :D

I guess that's one small consolation that we have that can stick it to Feinswein. :neener:

[Carlos Cabeza]

When all this AWB came about I was just a pup and didn't know much less comprehend what was happening. Hell, I voted for that scumbag adulterer. Now that I have wisened, yes I have and will continue to buy what you tell me I can't have because it's P-un C ! Also, I'll continue to work to educate others and expose the grabber's (GFW's) agenda for the lies of which it consists.
MOLON LABE !:fire:

[Correia]

Zak is right IPSC has never gone away from high cap magazines. What IDPA will do I have no idea. Right now out of the 4 basic divisions two fo them would change drastically if high caps were allowed. Will it happen? I have no idea.

I imagine that gun companies are going to be cranking out piles of magazines and every other goodie around the clock as we, the gun buying consumer, gorge ourselves like crack heads on free methadone day at the clinic. :p

Personally I'm going to put folding stocks on some weapons, that don't even look right with folding stocks, just because I CAN. :)

[Foreign Devil]

Manufacturers are already making "assault weapons" only they can only sell them to the cops. When this tyranny dies a much deserved death in September they will be able to sell these guns that they already have to us little people too. They may still manufacture "post ban" type guns for states like California and other oppressed places where the serfs are not allowed to own scary looking weapons.

I am very glad to see the evil black rifle type of guns flying off the shelves at the local guns stores almost as fast as they come in. That means that there are more people owning these guns, andmore people with a reason to fight this foolishness in the future.

[SJ]

With the permanent magazine capacity limits in CA, NJ, NY(?), Canada, the market for diminished-capacity mags will still be there. Look for more and more fine print in catalogs about where the retailers can ship mags. The permanent mag limits will likely cause the continuation of the Limited-10 division in USPSA.

For the AR15s, I totally agree that the AWB is a big part of their popularity. I wish I could find the post, but in the late 90s the AR15-L mailing list did a survey of pre-ban and post-ban serial numbers, with the goal of establishing the rough production numbers. IIRC, the conclusion was that around 10 times as many AR15-like things were produced from 94-present as had been produced in all the years from the first commercial Colts in the 1960s to 1994. The ratio must be even more skewed now, 4-5 years of post-ban production later.

I really do need to find the research, update it, and put on a plaque to send to Fienstein and Schumer.

[capt_happypants]

I think we'll see a resurgence in the wundernines and the wunderforties - especially in the Beretta, Glock, and Sig lines.

I think the AR market will be oversaturated as people dump their pre-bans.

My Sig rep says that there MAY be a semi-auto version of the SIG550/551.

[Dbl0Kevin]

I really do need to find the research, update it, and put on a plaque to send to Fienstein and Schumer.

I'd pay good money to see that. :D I'd really like to find the data myself then send both of them an email thanking them for doing an immeasurable service for my hobby and sport. I'm sure they'd appreciate that. :evil:

[shep854]

I imagine 'smiths will be busy for a while fitting flash suppressors to the "Ban" guns.

Regarding the proliferation of "banned" stuff; after ten years, does anyone have trouble finding full-cap magazines?

[sendec]

I'm investing heavily in bayonet companies:p

[jeff-10]

I think you will see a lot of full sized service pistols in 40 S&W and 357 Sig. More complete replicas of M-16s, M-16A1s, A2s, A4s M4s etc. No reason make odd looking AR-15s with muzzle brakes and dummy telescoping stocks now.

[whm1974]

I think the AR market will be oversaturated as people dump their pre-bans

Good I'm wanting an AR-15 and hopeing to get one cheap...

-Bill

[hillbilly]

As someone already pointed out, all the evil, banned stuff is still made.

Now it's just got "LAW ENFORCEMENT OR MILITARY USE ONLY" stamped all over it in great big letters.

The companies that still make all the evil stuff are probably already ramping up production of all these evil products with the big letters stamped on them.

Because, come the day after Sunset, none of those big old letters stamped on those products will mean a stinking thing any more.

In fact, I think I will purposely seek out products with those evil letters stamped on them, just so I can flaunt having products intended for "LAW ENFORCEMENT OR MILITARY USE ONLY."

Somehow, that will make owning those things even more Politically Incorrect........and thus more fun.

hillbilly

[GigaBuist]

I think Para Ordnance's double-stack 1911 style pistols are going to take off in a big way for a bit. A .45 that hold 14 rounds? A .40 that holds what, 16? A 9mm that can hold 18 rounds?!

Sweet Mother of God. So long as it fit's people's hands and they can get cheap mags for it they'll fly. All the hi-cap benefits of the Glock without the squirt-gun like trigger pull, it actually LOOKS GOOD, and doesn't have the funky angled grip on it.

Will serioius shooters pick them up? Probably not so much -- but my jaw drops at the idea of a 1911 in 9mm with 18+1 capacity. Flame me all you want, but there is something attractive about that.

We'll probably see a big "woosh" of sales for telescoping stocks for AR rifles. I want one for sure. Why? Well, when handing it to a little lady on the range it might be nice to shrink the stock down for them -- more comfortable and all. That's worth it to me.

Folding stocks for AK's just for the "neato" factor among us.

Since threading a barrel will no longer be illegal I'll be spending some time with a tap and die set in the months before Sept 14 honing my skills. Rather than pay a smith I'll practice like mad to get good at it and do it all as soon as the ban sunsets and order up a mix of flash supressors and muzzle brakes. I don't want them fixed on then end -- I want them to be interchangable -- at least as much as possible.

Glock will see a mad rush for magazines. Those things are so overpriced right now it's insane.

That's my take on it.

[edited to add]
When I bought my first handgun in June 2001 it was simply because I was afraid I'd never get thet chance to own a proper firearm if I didn't act now. All the gun grabbers are doing is forcing fence sitters to pick sides.

[Moparmike]

So does this mean that after Sept. 14 I can un-castrate my pistol mags? There is this little protrusion in my mag that keeps it from taking more than 10.

[4v50 Gary]

The fear of Feinstein pushing the ban and passing it if Kerry is elected will probably keep the prices up. In the meantime, while it's legal, we'll dress up our guns to look evil and grab up magazines if the price goes down.

[shep854]

I recently bought a Mec-Gar 17rd mag for my Beretta. It was new in packaging, but it did not look ten years old. I've heard rumbles of a "wink/nod" relationship in the importation of full-cap mags.

Assuming the ban dies, there may be a jump in the prices of Law Enforcement Only equipment, as this stuff acquires instant collectors status.

There are likely long days and sleepless nights for the RKBA groups as they watch for tricks.

[fjolnirsson]

Personally I'm going to put folding stocks on some weapons, that don't even look right with folding stocks, just because I CAN

If I lived in a free state, I tell you what I'd do:
Take my Glock 21, add a folding stock, flash supressor and a bayonet lug. Top it off with a normal cap mag, and I'm good to go. I'd take some pictures and send them to Diane. With a caption,"doesn't this look silly? It serves no purpose, and it's you that made me want to do it. Thanks Dianne!"
:D

[UnknownSailor]

I sincerely hope that Para-Ordnance produces P-14 magazines by the dump-truck load, for the three I have are pretty tired, and I don't feel like paying $60 each for replacements, with the ban going away in 2 months and change.

I don't want castrated 10 rounders, either, since their reliability is questionable.

I forsee the manufacturers producing as many of the prohibited items they can, since passage of a renewal bill (or a new, stronger bill) is still a distinct possibility. I predict many will add formerly banned features, especially folding/collapsing stocks and "flash supressors". I don't see a big demand for bayonet mounts happening any time soon.

Personally, I will go through a BIG magazine buying binge, particularly AR and P14 mags. The AR mags I have are well used GI surplus, amd look like hell warmed over.

I think that if we are able to sucessfully stave off Feinstein and her ilk for a few years, that manufacturers might act like that a new ban won't happen overnight, and things will settle down to pretty much how it was in the years before the ban.

[VaughnT]

I'll make a promise, right here and now, that if the AWB dies in september, I will allocate somewhere between $500 and $1000 to buy an evil black rifle of one type or another. I wouldn't mind learning the AR15 and the qualities of the .223, so long as I get a collapsible stock and railed forend.

If I can find two of them cheap enough, say a post-ban and an after-ban, I might just go that route. :D

Until then, ya'll educate me on the different makes and models of evil guns I might acquire. The eviler, the better.

[Logan5]

In the years before the ban, not many people actually wanted the stuff that got banned. Even me! I recall that around 1989-90, I wanted to get into high power rifle competition, and being a minor at the time, I asked my dad for a Colt Delta HBAR. What he got me was an AR15A2 Government Carbine with the whippy little barrel and collapsible stock, and I was pretty miffed. (no, of course I didn't say so!) We had an IMI Uzi pistol that came with a shoulder rig and all these 30 round mags, and I sold it before the ban for $450 and put the money towards a Beretta 686.
Of course all that stuff is banned by state law here now, with no sunset, so I'll have to move if I want to replace them post federal sunset.

[Dionysusigma]

It's my sincere belief that all these false, unmoving tele-stocks and welded-open folding stocks are going to drop to ~$.99 each :D

[Zach S]

Take my Glock 21, add a folding stock...

Wouldnt that make it an untregistered SBR?

I'd like to see 20 round P14 mags....

I sincerely hope that Para-Ordnance produces P-14 magazines by the dump-truck load, for the three I have are pretty tired, and I don't feel like paying $60 each for replacements, with the ban going away in 2 months and change. Someone told me that they were around 50 or 60 clams before the ban. Have you priced a ten-rounder lately? MSRP for a factory PO clinton mag is about 50 bucks.

[another okie]

I bought a Bushmaster AR-15 last year basically out of the fear that if the ban was renewed it would ban all AR types rifles. My AR has no muzzle break or pseudo collapsible stock - it's a very ordinary looking 20" barrel, regular stock. Now if the ban goes away I might just be tempted to buy a 16" short with flash suppressor, muzzle break and collapsible stock just to show I can.

[WhiteKnight]

About how long will it take for manufacturers to begin producing "high cap" magazines after the ban sunsets?

[Correia]

Whiteknight, they are producing them now, they are just marked for Law Enforcement only. On Sept 14th they are just going to quit stamping them. :)

[Walking Wounded]

I heard on another forum that the ones stamped "For law enforcement use only" will still be illegal! There's no way it can be true of course because the law criminalizing posession of the stamped mags will be kaput. The ban has resulted in strange behavior by gun owners if nothing else.

[shep854]

A nice addtion to a collection would an "LE Only" AR-15 or some such. LE Only might be a good theme for a collection in itself!

[ClonaKilty]

I imagine that gun companies are going to be cranking out piles of magazines and every other goodie around the clock as we, the gun buying consumer, gorge ourselves like crack heads on free methadone day at the clinic.


Oh man you are so right. I plan to spend several thousand dollars on new ARs and FALs with telescoping stocks, flash suppressors and MANY 20-round magazines. Plus many more standard-cap mags for my AK and Glocks...http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/edoom/Peace!.gif

[G1FAL]

I dont think AK mags will get any cheaper. There were practically billions of them produced before the ban, and since they are 'pre-ban', they can be imported. Thus the reason that you can get 4 AK mags and a pouch for $33 from IO, but ONE M16 mag will run you a little over $20. Same goes for FAL, G3, (maybe) Uzi, etc. mags. If its military surplus and not in general issue today, or in issue but not being produced by the boatload, prices wont go down much.

I WOULD like to see the AR mags I've heard of before, $2 each if you bought them by the hundreds. Yeah, I think I could dump $400 on 200 AR mags. Can never have too many.

I'm not gonna dump my neutered AR's. Cheaper to just remove the dummy brake, take off the front sight post/gas block, put the new block with bayonet lug on, put on a flash supporessor, and make a liberal mad.

The FALs wont even be that hard to return to original. Or the AK's.

I have been seriously considering making a Para P-14 my next pistol. Theres something very appealing about having a .45 that holds that many rounds, and ISNT a Glunk. Thus, I would like to see the prices on those mags come down. I saw someplace in SGN that had them for like $40 or $45 or so, I THINK. Might have been SOG. That would bite, since I try not to order from SOG or AIM.

I'd like to get some larger mags for my wife's CZ-100, though. Its a .40, and based on the size of the mag, should be able to hold 15-16 rounds, no problem, if it werent for liberalsocialist politicos.

And I would REALLY like to build a FAL para, complete with folding stock.

[Cowgunner]

I'm gonna get me a bushmaster AR-15 with the standard 20" iron sight model, and fix my old M-7 bayonet on it and rampage around my backyard bayonet assault course.:D

[AZLibertarian]

...put the new block with bayonet lug on, put on a flash supporessor, and make a liberal mad.... I've always been puzzled by the bayonet lug thingi. Now I understand the attaction and need for flash suppressors, folding/collapsable stocks, and of course, high capacity mags, but who among us (collectors excepted), really has a use for a bayonet?

Mind you, I'm not falling into the "I-don't-think-you-'need'-this-feature, therefore-we-ought-to-ban-it" line of thought. And I do understand that sometimes, "Just to make a liberal mad" is reason enough to do something.:D But, as a practical matter, what difference would it make if one's Ugly Rifle had a bayonet lug or not.

Me...I'm gonna stock up on as many quality hi-cap's as I can justify with Mrs. AZLib. During the ban, I've picked up a few here and there, and most are just crap. And, I too have to admit an attraction to that P14. We'll see though.

[armabill]

I think that the reason for the bayonet lug and/or the flash suppressor is to prove that the upper is really a preban. Otherwise, how can one tell?

[Joey2]

The AWB will be passed either in its original content or called something else with added bans.

Every time a major gun issue comes up in congress we just happen to have some nut case going on a killing spree.

The 2d Amendment is dying by more restrictions that changes a right into a priivilege. Every time we apply for a CCW we turn a right into a privlage.

Every time we concern ourselves with "straw purchases", transfer of a weapon to some body we turn our right into a privelage.

Look at California you can't own a weapon tha holds more than 10 rds. Yes, Hawaii follows California so I am in the same boat as the shooters in California.

My message is please don't jump through any hoops if the AWB sunsets because the powers to be has something more restrictive in the works.

Its going to take a mass disregard for the unjust laws. Who wants to lead the charge?

There already been some people who have lead the charge, one name comes to mind is Rick Stanley from Colorado. He is facing some seriious time behind bars.

How many of you have supported him either morally or financially.

How many of you have just blew hom off as a nut case?

I did in the beginning because he invaded my comfort zone of letting someone else leading the charge.

I have too much to loose to do this so I set somebody eles do this. How may of you are in the same boat?

At what point will we stand up togather and say enough is enough?

There is a purpose for the 2d Amendment and it is not just to have the right to hunt.

When will be be fed up enough to say we will not accept anymore crumbs from the table of the 2D Amendment.

This is a rant of frustration I feel.