20 shot group at 25 yards what would you call good


July 3, 2004, 10:49 PM
in a under 1000 dollar pistol for selfdefence shot from a rest,thanks,keith

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Old Fuff
July 3, 2004, 10:52 PM
Don't know. What kind of a gun, and how big a group?

July 3, 2004, 11:06 PM
remembering my results way back and over the years ... 25 yds .. rested .... hmm well my M686 6" tube, would return a group of around IIRC 4" with my target homeloads. Usually had a flyer or two that ''stretched'' the group but ... it did well.

July 3, 2004, 11:08 PM
A Glock 17, shot from a rest, should be able to put all 20 shots inside the 10 ring of an NRA B-8 Target (25 yd rapid fire...roughly 3 3/8" group.)

July 3, 2004, 11:20 PM
There was a test done like that years ago by Gun Digest using about 20 types of ammunition and a stock Beretta 92F in a Ransom Rest.

The 4 most accurate types of ammo all made 20 shot groups less than 3" c-t-c @ 25 yards.

Another test in the same book had them shooting 4 autopistols using fitted Bar-Sto barrels. 10 rounds @ 25 yards. All four pistols were able to group better than 3 " at that distance from a rest. 3 out of the 4 went under 2" with the best of the four grouping a hair over 1" at 25 yards.

Pistols in descending order of accuracy were S&W 639, 92F, CZ-75, BHP.

July 3, 2004, 11:28 PM
in my case i think i could do better if i could keep the fog of off my glasses.17 of 20 in 2.75 inches.i had to clear the fog between shots,thanks,keith

July 4, 2004, 07:23 AM
If I could put 20 shots ON the target, I'd be happy. I need help (and maybe a new set of eyes).:confused:

Jeff Timm
July 4, 2004, 09:14 AM
Kid Colt Outlaw (He should talk to his parents about that name) inquired: " 20 shot group at 25 yards what would you call good in a under 1000 dollar pistol for selfdefence shot from a rest."

Shot from a rest it should go under 5" this gives you the expectation of being able to pass the legendary "Standard controllability test" 5 shots, from your regular place of carry in 5 seconds or less, going into a 10" circle at 25 yards. Now you know why we have all of these High Roaders buying paper plates before going to the range.

Who expects more accuracy, slow fire from a supported rest.

Old Fuff
July 4, 2004, 10:07 AM
Shooting from a rest tests the accuracy of the gun/ammunition combination, not the shooter's skill.

I'd say that if the SIG pistol he has is shooting 2 3/4" groups (flyers excluded) at 25 yards the gun is more then "good enough" for anything except a true target pistol, and might even work for that. Clearly it meets service pistol/carry gun requirements. Da gun is good to go. Now perfect your hand-held shooting skills.

July 4, 2004, 11:53 AM
I expect 2.5" or less for an adjustable sight gun, typically they have a nice sight picture and are a little easier to shoot tight groups with. I expect no more than 4" and like to see 3" or less from fixed sight guns. Typically they have a little more coarse sight picture and are harder to shoot good groups with. I will try a few different loads but not try to polish a turd. If you try a handfull of loads with a couple standard bullet weights and the gun still doesn't shoot get rid of it and get another one.

The expectations of most handgunners are VERY leniant anymore. My 1 7/8" J-frames will do right at or better than 4" at 25 yards rested!!!

July 4, 2004, 11:25 PM
and the more i shoot the 40 smith and wesson the more i like my 357 SIG.the 40 has the edge in penetration my hot load will shot through 3 treated 2x6's and .5 in to the forth.it is a 180 at over 1100 fps.the 357 SIG only shot through one and into the other maybe .5 of an inch.is this to hard of a test shooting through treated 2x6's or not ?? in accuracy there is a clear winner the 357 SIG.the 40 barrel looks good but i wonder if it is or not the feed ramp has no blueing at all.the 357 SIG has most of it's blueing and has over 3,000 rounds through it.the 40 is a police trade in gun.the gun shoots good with a 357 sig barrel on it but not with the 40 barrel.i shot 9 5 shot groups the average was 2.2 inches at 25 yards.i shoot with my back against the car and the gun between my knees.i did do a first today off hand i shot 4 shots at 25 yards into an inch i did not fire the 5 lost my nerve lol.thanks,keith

July 5, 2004, 05:05 PM
Shooting my fixed sight 9mm CZ-75B from a Weaver stance, I consider keeping all 15 shots in a 6" circle doing well and certainly satisfactory for self defense.

July 6, 2004, 08:37 PM
of 9--5 shot groups.i put shaving cream on my glasses so they would not fog up .don't for get to take it bacvk off before you shoot.it is an old gun police trade in gun in 40 .i put a 357 SIG barrel on it,thanks,keith

Chris Rhines
July 6, 2004, 10:21 PM
I'd consider 4" at 25 yards freestyle, 2" from a machine rest to be good.

- Chris

July 6, 2004, 10:57 PM
Would this be acceptable at 25 yds?:D


25 yds indoor without a bench rest.

July 6, 2004, 11:41 PM
I'm feeling a little inadequate here. Are we talking about a sandbag rest, with no scope? I gotta look into that lasik eye surgery... Honestly, at 25 feet I can do just fine, but at 25 yards, forget it.

July 8, 2004, 12:03 AM
is it under 1,000 .my p229 sport will eat the center out but its over 1,000,thanks,keith

July 8, 2004, 06:55 AM
That is good shooting for sure. One of the best I have personally seen was with a TC 357 mag. 3/3 on a coke can at 90m with open sights and no rest, standing. He did hold a Silhoette World record at one stage.
But THIS target really gets my attention.

Off to do some dry firing.


Nando Aqui
July 8, 2004, 07:26 PM
Just recently I started a topic (here at THR) regarding accurate loads for my HK USP .45 Tactical. I wrote, in part: I have been using Sellier & Bellot 230-gr FMJ quite effectively (accuracy wise*) with my HK USP .45 Tactical. *To me this means consistently holding 10-round 3" groups at 25-yards offhand - slow fire. (Have never shot a handgun from any sort of a rest, so I don't know what 'the gun' could do.) I found three targets I shot at 25-yd, offhand (two-hand hold) with the HK .45 and also with my wife's HK USP 9mm Compact. The groups measure as follows:

< For the .45 Tactical, 10-round groups, Sellier & Bellot ammo>

< For the 9mm Compact, 20-round group, Sellier & Bellot ammo >

If weather permits, I'll take my HK .45 Tact and my Colt Python 6" to the range this weekend and (try to) shoot from a rest, and report back. I believe the Python will be the most accurate. (I guess I'll just rest my hands on a bag or something like that. I don't believe that I should rest the pistol or revolver directly on anything, is this correct?)


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