[ah]

I've seen a number of less than satisfied Mini 14 owners discuss the accuracy of this rifle.
Is it correct to say that one would have to spend an extra $300 to make this really accurate?

Also, has anyone seen a Mini 14 shortened to the size of an M-1 Carbine? I saw a Ruger 9mm carbine and wondered why the Mini 14 couldn't be a little shorter. It seems that with a 16 inch barrel and a slightly shortened stock this would make it a little more manageable, but I wonder how much accuracy one would sacrifice.
What about function and reliability of the Mini 14? Most folks seem to purchase the AR clones.
Comments appreciated.

[GW45]

I have both a Ruger Mini-14 and an Armalite AR-15A2.

The Ruger has a Hogue overmolded stock, Simmons Expedition 3x9x42 scope, and a Eagle muzzle break.

I only shoot 100 yds - but with the scope I can get 1" to 1 1/2" groups from a good rest and depending on what ammo I use.

Are you looking for something that delivers sub-MOA? If so - you will spend $$$ on the Mini-14. But it does fairly decent - which is all I need.

Magazines - I found the ones from Bushmaster work well (20 rounders) - and they're guarenteed to function and be reliable.

Why would you want to cut the barrel down???

My AR will give less than an 1" with a scope, good ammo and a rest....

[meathammer]

I think the Mini 14 is decent for what it is. Having owned one (sold it and bought an Armalite AR-15) the accuracy seems to degrade as the barrel heats up. I know this is the case with all rifles, but the Mini 14 has a very small diameter barrel in my opinion. It heats up rather quickly. If you just plan on shooting between 100-200yds., it does this okay. I had no problem hitting a paper plate at 150yds. shooting off hand with iron sights. I never benchrested mine to see what kind of groups it could do. I personally wouldn't want the barrel any shorter, accuracy would suffer. Function and reliability is excellent WITH decent magazines. It is very difficult to find quality high caps for this rifle. If you find factory Ruger ones, you will pay alot for them. As far as spending an extra $300.00 for an accuracy job, well then you are spending about what a new Bushmaster or Armalite costs, so why bother? I'm not trying to deter you from getting one, just giving you my honest opinion. I had fun plinking with mine when I had it, I just grew frustrated with magazine reliability. However the factory 5 rounders will work flawlessly. I hope this helps.

[CWL]

ah,

what does 'really accurate' mean to you?

[Art Eatman]

I gotta go along with meathammer. Why spend a bunch of money to get up to where a lot of other stuff starts out? It's sorta defeating the intent of the design.

The Mini is an excellent knock-around critter. Its very design militates against target accuracy. My main gripe is that, to me, it's overpriced.

Look: 50 or 60 years ago, using iron sights and factory ammo, deer hunters were happy if they could shoot inside of two MOA with a Model 70, that "Rifleman's Rifle". Now, folks whine if they can't do that with a little knock-around carbine.

(Aw, well. Folks been known to use screwdrivers as chisels...)

It's a lot more important that the first shot goes to the same place, every time. The Mini certainly comes pretty close to that.

Art

[benEzra]

Is it correct to say that one would have to spend an extra $300 to make this really accurate?
According to the guys over on the Mini-14 forum (link below), you can get a pretty accurate mini for under $100 if you do it right.
<http://www.perfectunion.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=8>

Recommended steps:
Trigger job from Mike Knifong (see forum for contact info). $25

Gas bushing kit from Mike Knifong--keeps scope from getting
beat up. $25 (Knifong tells you how to take off the gas block and put it back together. No, you don't need special tools, just an allen wrench, some locktite, and the sense to follow directions.)

Glass bed your stock. ($50 gets you the trigger job, bushing kit, and a how-to glass bedding video; the bedding supplies are cheap.) This makes things much more consistent shot to shot.

Put a combo muzzle brake on the end of your barrel to add mass (greatly reduces muzzle whip). $35

If you want to spend a little more, have a gunsmith shorten the barrel to 16"-16.5" before installing the muzzle brake. (Shorter barrel = less whip.) Some of the more skilled on the forum will explain how to do this yourself with hand tools, but don't do this if you aren't good with tools. You may have to have a gunsmith cut a new sight notch, depending on what brake you're using.

Some of those guys are claiming 1" groups from rifles that previously wouldn't hold 4-5".

What puzzles me is that Ruger doesn't do some of this (smoother trigger surfaces, better stock fit, smaller gas bushing) from the factory.

bE

[BamBam-31]

Where's SodaPop? :D

[dude]

well, the Mini-14 is a LEO carbine and has never claimed to be anything more. A bad guy shot in the chest from 100yards away is just as screwed as a bad guy shot in the left corner of his right eye.


look at it this way- you could spend $42,000 on an Audi TT Coupe that is really (really) fast and is fantastically agile through the turns........ but mainly is AWD making it very stable on wet/icy roads


.........or you could get a $18, 000 Suraru Outback that is AWD and just as stable on wet/icy roads

[444]

I once owned a Mini-14. It exhibited decent accuracy. Mine would shoot into maybe 4-5" at 100 yards from a bench. Function was flawless. For the purpose intended, that is plenty good enough. It would make a decent coyote rifle. It would fill the roll of an anti-personel weapon. Back when I owned mine in the early 80s magazines were not an issue. I traded mine for something, I have no idea what now. It wasn't that I didn't like it, I just wanted something new. I have a friend that makes some pretty serious money. He sent his Mini-14 away to someone and spend a whole lot of money on it. It shoots great, he got his moneys worth. I don't know exactly what he spent but it was more than $300. I am not sure why he did it. He has dozens of other rifles that shoot very well including more than a couple AR15s. But, that is what he wanted, and he had the money to do it without thinking twice. I don't have that kind of money, so if I wanted better accuracy, I would buy a rifle that is capable of that kind of accuracy from the git go. Why buy a rifle for $400 or whatever then sink another $300 into it when you can spend less and get more ?

This brings up a good point that I think many people have forgotten about. This, like the AR15/M16 is designed to be a moderate to short range weapon. I often read people on these boards bashing the M4 or M16 for not being effective at 600 yards or 800 yards. This isn't the intention of these rifles. I don't think we have to be all that clever to figure out that the 5.56 NATO round doesn't have what it takes out at these extreme ranges. As Art put it, some people use a screwdriver for a chisel. Then the back seat drivers complain because it didn't accomplish the task.

[SodaPop]

Where's SodaPop?

Trying not to be a one topic poster.:D


The bolt design on the Mini 14 is better than the AR design. I have never had to disassemble the bolt for cleaning. I wouldn't trust and AR that hadn't been cleaned after 500rds. I seriously wonder If a Mini 14 ever needs to be cleaned.

I'd rebarrel a Mini 14 after I shot out the old one. In the mean time, I couldn't justify spending money on one.

I buy used guns.

I'm cheap.

Get a used Mini 14 for $350-$400.

[Keith]

Yeah, I'm with Art.

The Mini-14 is designed as an all-around sort of pick-up truck rifle. If you want a varminter, buy one. You can buy a bolt action .223 that will shoot rings around any mini-14 (and most AR's for that matter) at 1/3 the price.

Keith

[bad_dad_brad]

I go back and forth. I have a Mini-14 Ranch. I have an AR-15. The Mini is the kind of rifle you shoot hard and put away wet. Within 100 yards it is combat accurate, very reliable, and I don't have to take care of her very well. Still, she comes back for more. She will do the job intended.

But I am in absolute total love with my AR-15. A Bushy 16" shorty A2 and yes, she must be taken care of. But when you treat her right, she rewards with excellent performance. Very accurate. Very reliable. Very ergonomic. But I do clean her after every encounter. Not exactly high maintenance, but there are issues, as the gas and un-burnt powder does blow into the action.

I think the Mini-14 is a good rifle, and would be a great rifle if it only cost $350. But that is the thing, the AR-15 is a great rifle at $800. Both guns have their place and I am glad I have both, although, if I had bought my AR first, I probably would not have bought a Mini.

Either find a good used Mini or save your money and get a quality AR15. I would not buy a new Mini. They just are not worth the price Ruger is asking.

[tex_n_cal]

I had a Mini-14 for a time while I lived in Texas. Took it apart, glass bedded it, put it back together, loaded some mild handloads, and the first group went into 1" at 100 yards. Don't see what the fuss was all about:p

Stupidly, I thought they were illegal in CA, so I sold it before moving here. Think I'll buy another, and handload for it, too.:)

[Mannlicher]

What I find amusing, is the guys with the AR15s, the Bushmasters and Colts, that they have lavished a LOT of money on. New forenends, barrels, triggergroups, bushings,stocks, scopes and mounts, lasers, tasers, GPS receivers, flash lights and god knows what else................................

And then they deride a guy that wants to spend $100 on his Mini.
Who's zooming who here?

My Ranch rifle has always shot great. Meet me tommorrow at the Trail Glades range with your AR whatever, and lets see who shoots best for the money.

[El Capitan]

I dont know much about Mini's or scopes (not a rilfe guy), but want to pick one up cause its one of the last legal semi rifles left here in kali.

Question: do you have to get the ranch version to mount a scope?
Or can the standard models mount a scope, just in a different fashion?

[BamBam-31]

I'm glad to see Art and SodaPop defend the much-maligned Mini-14. I'm on their side. I have a Ranch model with a Burris 1.5-6x scope on it, and I can consistently hit clay pigeons all the way back to the mountainside (about 180 yds.). How much accuracy do you need?

If you want to make holes in holes, go with a bolt action. Mini's do what they're supposed to do. They're handy, reliable, and accurate enough. I have great fun with mine.

El Capitan, the Ranch model is the way to go if you want to scope your Mini. The Standard also can be scoped, but it's harder to do (you have to buy a special mount). The Ranch is also designed with scope preservation in mind--it deflects the casings away from the scope, whereas the Standard launches them directly upward at the scope. The Ranch also comes with the Ruger rings ("a $50 value"), so you're good to go from the start. Only benefit of getting the Standard is the better irons on it.

[SodaPop]

Question: do you have to get the ranch version to mount a scope?

NO.

I have a standard Mini 14 that attaches to the receiver. I haven't really used a scope on it much, so I can't say how good they are. If you plan on using a scope I suggest the Ranch model.

[El Capitan]

Actually, the more I think about it (you must take all PRK 'laws' into consideration), I think a standard Mini would be perfect for iron sights and 100 yrds or less plinking and home defense. Especially if cut down a little with muzzle brake added for controllability. Plus, isn't .223 much much cheaper to shoot than, say 308 for example?

I can then get a nice long bolt action to mount a scope on and do the longer range shooting later.

This thread along with others I've read confirms that trying to push the Mini into being a long range accurate shooter is kinda the whole square peg/round hole problem. I suppose it would be analogous to hunting ducks with an 18" HD shottie.

Problem is, I also 'need' to pick up a M1A while they're still legal here in the PRK. But those puppies are, as we say in LA, mucho dinero.

[444]

" I suppose it would be analogous to hunting ducks with an 18" HD shottie."

Hey, that's very good. Perfect analogy.

[Art Eatman]

But that's why God invented screw-in chokes: Take you HD shottie with a Full or a Modified choke, and go kill a duck. :)

:), Art

[blades67]

If you use good cover, and you're patient, the ducks will come in close enough that you don't need screw-in chokes to get dinner.

I've also been dove hunting with my 18' barreled Winchester 1300 Defender, even brought a couple home.

I've also taken a coyote and a pitbull with my Mini-14. (The pitbull attacked, and killed, a neighbor's dog that was chained to a runner. I just couldn't get the Mini-14 out of the lockbox fast enough to save the good dog.:( )

[El Capitan]

RE the pit bull,

what ammo? how many shots hit? and where?

everyone's always speculating on how to get a rabid dog, just curious how it actually worked out in reality, with a .223 and mini 14.

[The Mighty Beagle]

Ah, I've owned 2 Mini 14's and 1 Mini 30. I humbly submit that some of the above posters obtained some freakishly good Mini's. I felt lucky when mine got 6" groups at 100 yds with custom handloads (which never really helped matters much by the way). I would've actually been pretty happy with this had the "groups" (really patterns) been in the same place all the time. Seems my Minis had a wandering zero, and I'm not talking anything more than the slowest-of-slow target firing.

Cyberspace is the only place I've ever heard of Minis doing much better than this.

Despite what some posters say about "knock-about rifles" and such, there's really no excuse for this level of inaccuracy in anything containing rifling. Curiously, I could outshoot my Minis with a smoothbore Mossberg 590 and cheap rifled slugs (3"-4" at 100), and it kicked the tar out of me so I know I wasn't even doing my best trigger work.

[twoblink]

A mini-14 will do MoP (Minute of PiePlate) but not much more. Accuracy deteriorates rapidly with the heatup of the barrel.

Finally, I find it to be an insult that it's called a Mini14, as it is nothing close to an M14.

[Art Eatman]

"Knockabout" works because rough handling generally won't hurt a Mini. :) I guess I have three gripes about a Mini. 1, the barrel should have been re-worked for a little-bit thicker profile. 2, The quality control could be better. And 3, it now seems over-priced for what it is. When it first came out, it was a very reasonable deal for the money.

The name is apropos, as it is indeed a scaled-down semi-auto version of an M-14. The execution of manufacture is less than one would like.

I dunno. I guess I'll have to trade into another one. Heck, I've been saving that factory 10-round mag for several years, now; need a gun to fit it. :D

Art

[mini14jac]

I just traded a SAR1 for a Mini 14. (OOOOOHHHHH! :eek: )
I like the looks of the Ruger.
I had one years ago.
I want a plinking gun, that can double for home defense if needed. I don't want to keep $800 tied up in this gun.
I traded a SAR1 with 2 - 30rd mags, for a Mini14 with 2- 30rd PMI mags. I'm happy with that.

I never bench fired my first rifle, so I don't know how accurate it was.
I have a glass bedding kit on the way from Brownell's.
I plan to bench it, record the results, bed it :D , then bench it again.

I'll let everyone know how it turns out.

[Bottom Gun]

El Capitan,

I'd put off installing a muzzle brake for a while.
It has been my experience that they aren't necessary for a .223 since the recoil is minimal. They will, however, raise the noise level to an unacceptable level and should you ever have to use it without hearing protection you will almost certainly damage your hearing.
A muzzle brake won't make you too many friends at the range either.

My two cents.

[Gearhead Jim]

Well, I'm glad that some of you guys are shooting accurate Mini-14's, because I've had three of them and they were all awful. The first two were the standard model, the best I could reliably do with the irons, from a bench at 100 yds, was to stay on a piece of 8 1/2 x 11 paper. That barely beats what I can do with a good pistol.

The current one is a Ranch. This time I got serious, cleaning the barrel every 5 shots for the first 50, bringing several brands and weights of ammo, etc. With a good 6x scope and the best (for it) ammo, groups run 4"- 6" at 100yds. Same day, same ammo; my standard Colt AR-15 with the tiny Colt scope will usually stay inside an inch, never more than 1.5" for 5 shots.

[benEzra]

I recently ditched the (cheap) Simmons 3-9x scope on my mini-14 Ranch (with Choate pistol grip stock) and went back to using the iron sights--the accuracy improved nearly 100% (went from >12" groups at 100 yd with constantly shifting zero to about 6.5" at 100 (off a sandbag), but centered on point of aim. Still not stellar, but good enough for a 200-meter defensive rifle.

One thing that surprised me after I ditched the scope was how FAST the Ranch Rifle can be on close-range targets with the rear sight folded down. Inside 50 yards or so, I can get a cheek weld, throw that huge front sight up onto the target and roll the trigger, and get A-zone hits, every time. You lose a little in long-range accuracy, but the speed is amazing and the accuracy is excellent at closer ranges.

bE

[benEzra]

duplicate

[El Capitan]

I'd put off installing a muzzle brake for a while.
It has been my experience that they aren't necessary for a .223 since the recoil is minimal. They will, however, raise the noise level to an unacceptable level and should you ever have to use it without hearing protection you will almost certainly damage your hearing.
A muzzle brake won't make you too many friends at the range either.

That all sounds like good advice, thx.

[BamBam-31]

El Capitan,

If you visit www.perfectunion.com, there's a Mini-14 forum where posters almost unanimously agree that installing a particular muzzle brake (the Black Warrior or John Masen double muzzle brake, you can find it at CheaperThanDirt.com) will shrink groups of 6" to about 3". Something to do with barrel harmonics. The brake is not really for recoil.

I installed one on mine, and 3" groups are about right (and I'm no marksman). Best $20 you'll ever spend on the Mini-14. Also recommended: glass bedding, re-torque gas block screws, trigger job. If you visit the site, look up a guy named Mike Knifong. If you want aftermarket mags, PMI is the way to go.

Like I said, I'm happy with mine. As mentioned, the Mini is very handy, and accurate enough. Most of the people that thumb their noses at the Mini can legally purchase AR's. Like you, I'm in Kali, so a Mini is infinitely better than nothing.

Or get a Garand! I love mine. ;)