[intimidator]

There is a Remington 1816 Commemorative flinklock rifle available for purchase in my area and I have some questions. I have not seen the condition of this rifle as yet. I understand it was made by Remington in 1995 only. How limited was this production? How many mfg? Suggested retail was $1800 plus. Is $800 today a reasonable price if it is in good condition? If anyone has seen this rifle, I would like to hear their opinions. Is this strictly a commemorative or is it a quality rifle. Since I have always been a percussion rifle hunter, does Flinklock make this a unrealistic hunting weapon when sighting game is scarce.......?Thanks in advance for any thoughts........

[4v50 Gary]

Saw it when I visited the factory. The secretary was cute, but the Remington was cuter. So, when I got home my dealer tried but couldn't get one. Apparently his distributor had a strong disliking for them.

I heard that they had problems with the mainspring and it had to be sent back to the custom shop for heat treatment. I'm sure if you bought one used that Remington would honor it.

BTW, I think the defunct Hatfield Rifle Company (and other contractors) made them for Remington. My guess is that about 1k were made. Remington wasn't making it themselves at the time and if you visited the factory, you wouldn't see a pile of locks, stock blanks or octagon barrels anywhere.

As to its accuracy as a replica, I don't believe that Remington even has an original Remington rifle. There's even debate whether it's factory lore or whether Eliphalet actually made entire guns for anyone outside of the family. Barrel making for profit may have been easier & faster. I was told that there was a gun brought to the factory once. It had been left loaded and hung in the house for generations. When the great-great-great-great (ad infinitum) brought it in, the factory examined it (including x-ray) and pronounced it safe. How to get rid of the ball? They said, "shoot it." The guy did (didn't lose any Mark I eyeballs or digits) and uses it for reenacting.

At $800, I think it's a good price and I'd buy it and if you're not interested, give me the phone #.

Oh, regarding flintlock hunting, a well tuned flintlock will fire just as fast as a percussion. If anything, we're talking micro-seconds difference and I haven't seen any tests or results showing which is faster. Presumably percussion though because there's no frizzen/battery/hammer/steel to knock out of the way. Don't worry about distracting game if it's deer or other hoofed critters. Get close enough and they won't be able to duck a ball (During the Revolution, American Pvt. Plumb Martin saw a flash and ducked just in time to miss being hit).

[4v50 Gary]

BTW, if you get it, please post pics. I can "roll my own" if I can determine what parts are used and the dimensions.

[intimidator]

4v50Gary; Thanks for your reply. I'll be looking at this rifle tomorrrow and I'll let the board know what happened. A question that I forgot to ask is since the the barrel is a 1:39 twist: would the use of cast conical bullets or sabots provide reasonable accuracy? Are there any issues using types?

Relative to my concern about the use of a flintlock for hunting was directed more at keeping powder charges dry rather than speed of reloading.

Thanks again........

[4v50 Gary]

1:39 suggests that it is more of a conical gun than a 1-66" round ball flintlock. This must be some modern concession as the conical wasn't around when Eliphalet made his barrels.

Devigne (with his 1826 smaller powder chamber that the ball was suppose to be partially pounded into) Thouvenin (with his tige or "anvil" - really a pillar) and Greener with his expanding ball were among the first to develop a long range gun. Claude Minie came out with the practical conical shape ball that bears his name (which was perfected by an American, Burton) around 1845. So, for the gun to have a 1:39 and be historically accurate raises some eyebrows.

Me, I'd cheat hand have a flintlock jager with a bore that would shoot a .58 cal Minie. Hit 'em at 500 yards w/out a sweat. :p

[intimidator]

I will be turning 65 this fall and yet today I feel like a teenager. I looked at and brought the remington 1816 today. It is the most beautiful rifle I believe I have seen. It is unfired in the box but does have some light scratches in the wood finish in a small area on the left side. They are not deep but are visable. Apparently a flint was left loose in the box and caused the scratches. Some of the cleaning jags are also missing But the price was right. The seller was asking $800 but settled for $650.

It is my error regarding barrel twist. The barrel length is 39 inch but the twist is 1 in 66 inches. It looks like I will be selling my store of .50 cal. conical bullets as well as 2 percussion rifles. It is too late to take some Pics but promise tomorrow to attempt some photos for this board.

I will likely be heading back to this board for more advise once I buy some Black Powder.

I wonder if I will sleep tonight::rolleyes:

[4v50 Gary]

Congratulations on your new baby!:) You "kidnapped" her at $650. :cool:

BTW at another forum someone posted that one was auctioned for $1400. It may be a collectible that shouldn't be shot.:uhoh:

[BigG]

Congratulations on the new smokepole! I take it this is a replica of the rifle they use on their logo? Looks like a old Springfield flintlock musket (based on Charleville design), more or less. Enjoy it in good health! Does it shoot 50 caliber?

You will find flintlock shooting, if you haven't tried it, challenging but rewarding. If you stick with it you will learn the little nuances that will make it go off with boring regularity. And having just that one shot, and knowing the pain it is to load another one, will help you make each shot count. I think my muzzle loading has made me a better marksman. Congratulations, again! Can't wait to see the picture.

[intimidator]

Since I shoot with the camera about as well as I shoot my muzzle loaders, the attached photos don't do justice to this wonderful rifle. When I was taking the pics showing more of the rifle the colors in the wood was lost. I attached a few shots showing patches of wood to provide an example.

BigG, the caliber is .50. The barrel is browned and the wood is tiger stripped maple. The brass work adds a nice finishing touch. I wish the photos could do justice to this piece.

Gary; I understand your comment about not firing due to this being a possible collectable. I'm just glad my wife does not read these boards. I have given it a lot of thought and have decided that safe queens belong to younger shooters. At my age if I want to store something for future appreciation, I'll store paper, eg stocks, bonds, etc. Besides when you take this rifle into your hands, it is begging you to shoot her. Not only does she look great the balance is wonderful. By the time the butt is to your shoulder you are on steady target.

[intimidator]

I tried posting the photos all at once but only one came up so I will do them one at a time............:banghead:

[intimidator]

Here's another:

[intimidator]

Let's do it again:

[intimidator]

OK.....

[intimidator]

OK

[intimidator]

Finally the last pic..........:rolleyes:

[4v50 Gary]

Thanks for sharing the pics. Can you show me the lock? It's suppose to be Ketland from what I understand. I've also asked at another board who made them for Remington. I think Hatfield was one contractor, but for one firm to make 1k is quite a lot and there must have been others.

[intimidator]

Attached is photo of lock..........You are correct it is based on the Ketland. You are also correct that they were maded by Hatfield. I checked with a former Remington employee who was associated in a way and he confirmed Hatfield as supplier. He was not sure how many were actually produced. Mine has a serial # in the 300's. At the asking retail near $1900 it is not clear how many were ordered. It was a special order rifle.

[BigG]

That's a might fine lookin weapon, Mr. Intimidator! :cool: Looks mighty like a Kain Tuck Ee more so than a Springfield. Very nice and a prized possession, I'm sure! :D