Dare I?


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Boats
February 14, 2003, 09:56 AM
I am thinking of getting a petition going of the .45ACP shooters at the rod and gun club I am a member of in order to prohibit the firing of .45G at the pistol ranges. As of now, members may police their brass or leave it for the club to collect and resell or reload for sale. A mixture of any .45G brass is going to be highly problematic for folks who either pick-up, or who during their volunteer requirements to reduce their fees, will spend valuable time sorting this crappy little development out of the brass.

This issue has been discussed by the directors once before when it was .40S&W and 10mm with different OAL brass, but despite its many ardent fans, 10mm has not caught on enough to be a problem in brass confusion. I am hoping the .45G dies a swift and horrible death in the American shooting market, but why take any chances? Go fire the stupid thing in the woods or a gravel pit is my initial reaction when thinking about Gaston's vanity cartridges appearing accidentally on my reloading tray.

My fall back position will be to take any .45G brass I ever find to the dump, if I accumulate enough, so that it doesn't enter the ammo reloading cycle.

What say you?

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David Roberson
February 14, 2003, 10:19 AM
Sounds to me like you have a lot of time on your hands and few ideas of how to use it.

Market forces, not petitions, will determine the success or failure of Mr. Glock's new cartridge (although I am expecting failure -- like you, I see no need for this one). Why not use your time on something productive, like shooting or handloading for your .45 ACP?

Hawkman
February 14, 2003, 10:24 AM
When the .40s&w was introduced did it evoke the same kind of visceral anger that the .45 Glock is arousing? Why are so many people so angry? I look forward to exploring the capabilities of a new toy!:confused:

10-Ring
February 14, 2003, 10:29 AM
Dude, take a deep breath, calm down. There are better battles to be faught. Glock hasn't even sold their 1st 37 yet much less has that round floating around in ANY numbers and from my initial impression, it's a solution to a non-existent problem. The 37 will fade away soon enough.
Go to the range or go fishing...calm down! :)

Boats
February 14, 2003, 10:35 AM
This round has been ticking me off since last night. I was never really down on Glock until this week. First they spoiled my idea of getting a G20 with their obtuse stance on BF and now they have proposed poisoning my reloading time with a dink round of the same diameter as my favorite. Now, completely unbidden by me like some sort of minor demon, Gaston Glock has offered to waste my time sorting out his cartridge if it catches on.

When .40 S&W came out there was little chance of confusing its brass for .45ACP and next to nobody I know reloads 9mm so there was little potential for brass confusion. Gaston's vanity round is a near visual clone of the .45ACP being nothing more than a slightly trimmed case.:cuss:

Oleg Volk
February 14, 2003, 10:59 AM
Want to complain about Browning's 9x17 causing confusion with 9x19...or maybe 9x18 for resemblance to both of those? How about 38S&W/Special/357Mag? Sheesh...

Boats
February 14, 2003, 11:18 AM
What is your point Oleg?

Do you reload .380ACP, 9mm and 9x18? If you did you might develop a complaint, though 9mm is almost too cheap to reload and the other two aren't all that popular.

38.Sp. and .357 mag can be fired from the same .357 magnum and mag won't fit in a 38.Sp. no matter how you try. Besides, except for competition shooting, most revo shooters do not throw brass on the ground, they empty them into bags or buckets from what I have seen.

.38/.357 is not nearly the headache that a popular .45G would cause. I am certain that at some point soon some idiot somewhere will attempt to shoot .45Kurz through a .45ACP and some other idiot will complain that the .45s he just bought don't fit his first .45.

The .45G is a bleeding stupid development.

sidearm
February 14, 2003, 11:56 AM
"The .45G is a bleeding stupid development."

You're right! So much so that I wouldn't worry about. it'll ever take hold. So on to the REAL question...45ACP or 9mm!? hehe;)

Kaylee
February 14, 2003, 11:59 AM
Um... I don't mean to be rude Boats, but it sounds like you're complaining that something you pick up for free off the ground takes a little more work to sort out...

I don't see a problem, honestly. If you were paying for said brass and it was mislabeled, certainly. If you bought a box of loaded ammo and it was the wrong size, absolutely. But complaining 'cause you have to work a little more picking freebies off the range gravel? Seems a little overdone.

-K

cheygriz
February 14, 2003, 12:13 PM
I reload 9MM, (by the ton) .40, 10MM and .45. Sorting the brass is a normal part of the reloading process.

Unless you're one of the ".45 snobs" why worry about it?

Maybe it's time that some of the .45 snob crowd started to realize that there are other cartridges that people shoot. And there are even other cartridges that some experienced shooters consider far superior to the .45 acp.

I hate to say it, but you sound like some of the "over-under and bolt action" snobs that have rules that semi-autos, synthetic stocks and milsurp ammo are not allowed on "their" ranges.

Chill out, my friend!

Chaz
February 14, 2003, 12:58 PM
What the hell is a 45G?

Schuey2002
February 14, 2003, 01:15 PM
It a new ".45 Short" round that Glock is developing for the new Glock 37.. Check out the handgun forums on this board for more info. .. :)

stephen_g22
February 14, 2003, 01:24 PM
If it was a .45 Sig or a .45 Colt cartridge being introduced would you feel any different or are you just taking your Glock bitterness to another level?


Whoops, I found my answer in your signature line, nevermind.

boing
February 14, 2003, 02:06 PM
I think you should buy a G37 and start reloading for it. Then all the evil, evil .45(-ish) brass will be yours, all yours, and your plot for world domination will be complete.

:rolleyes:

Reloading means sorting brass.

cordex
February 14, 2003, 02:09 PM
The .45G seems like a terrible idea to me. I don't see that it offers much, really. Just a way to cram a mediocre .45ACP load into a smaller Glock frame (not that it'd have too many benefits outside the Glock line).

That said, I think trying to ban it from your range is an act of controlling selfishness.

Boats
February 14, 2003, 02:11 PM
Aw, what a witty Glock apologist you are Stephen. :rolleyes:

Yes, I'd be slamming .45EGO no matter who made it. It is a marvel of unwanted change. That it is Glock that introduced it on the heels of their national declaration of treachery just makes it all the more fun.:evil:

You can search back this very forum about how I was coming around to the idea of buying a Glock 20 and then seeing if full-caps were a possibility if the mag ban dies.

Glock has Mr. Januzzo to thank for a lost sale. Unwanted brass picking just cements the decision. Yes, it is a fact of life in reloading to chuck out the 9mm .40S&W, Blazers, and other miscellaneous brass out from the .45ACP that I want, but now possibly being required to be checking headstamps or sizing OAL differences on two equal diameter, but different length cases is beyond the pale. It is not as simple as knowing you have a .45ACP case and only have to inspect it for reloading suitability.

And for the record Kaylee, I only endeavor to pick up brass I have paid for, fired, and wish to reuse. I prefer our club to reclaim the unwanted brass to defray expenses and give lower income members the opportunity to help out with their labor in lieu of cash.

Don Gwinn
February 14, 2003, 02:16 PM
Boats, you're going to have to calm down. I sort 10mm, .40, and all the rest when I pick up .45 brass. It's no big deal. And if you think .45G is going to be hard to pick out, you obviously don't sort out the +P casings (shame on you!) I do, and that's a whole lot harder than .45G is going to be.

More importantly, the market is going to take care of it. I have to admit the round is doomed as far as I can see. A .45 in a package as thin as a Glock 17? They already make that. It's called a 1911, SIG 220 . . . . well, it goes by a few names.

On the other hand, if it causes HK to develop a .45 USP in the frame for the current 9/40 fullsize, that would be something!

Don Gwinn
February 14, 2003, 02:21 PM
Hey, Stephen, I think you've got a great idea there, by the way. .45 Colt! Why didn't I think of that?

Maybe, since the .45 Glock is going to be a short, fairly high-pressure semi-auto round, we should make the .45 Colt the opposite. A large case, low pressure, and with a rimmed case for revolvers.

Yup, I think we've got something here. The question is, can it last? :D

Correia
February 14, 2003, 02:31 PM
I'm a brass scrounge. I already have to pick out Blazers, Wolf, and I check the brass for deformation or cracks anyway.

I also load 9x18 so I have to be careful around 9x17 and 9x19. (you can trim 9x19 though). I also have buckets of .40 S&W laying around though I don't load for it. (just in case I guess).

I don't see the big deal. You find 45 Glock, just pick it out, or trade it to somebody who shoots that caliber. I don't own a 10mm, but I always pick it up because I know some people who I can give it to.

What about mil-surp ammo? (different primer types) most of the surplus 7.62x51 out there isn't reloadable but it looks the same as the regular stuff. Would you ban them from your range too?

I think you are making a mountain out of mole hill.

David Roberson
February 14, 2003, 02:33 PM
Wait until the time when poor Boats is policing brass and discovers some .45 Schofield or .45 Auto Rim cases. It will really ruin his day.

Boats
February 14, 2003, 02:38 PM
All right. I am over my fit of pique at Glock. They are on my "ignore" list now, just as I am sure that I am on theirs.

I will limit my anti-Glocking to recommending against a purchase any time I can. My first opportunity comes tomorrow when my wife's cousin doesn't buy a Glock when we go gun shopping.

Blackhawk
February 14, 2003, 02:41 PM
Bad idea, Boats.

I don't shoot .45G, but I'd be torqued at and about anybody who asked me to sign a petition banning anything like it.

Boats
February 14, 2003, 03:22 PM
Steel and aluminum cased ammo were banned before I joined five years ago. Would that be an exemplar of class warfare?:D

ball3006
February 14, 2003, 03:24 PM
inexperienced 45 ACP shooter/reloader. Anyone that has much experience reloading 45 would be able to pick out a different size brass from the pile. I don't even shoot or reload 9mm and 380 but I can pick them out without even trying. The first rule of reloading is inspecting your brass anyway so what is the point. Sounds like you need to buy a piece of land in the country and set up a range where only you shoot so there is no problem with contamination of your brass....chris3

Boats
February 14, 2003, 03:33 PM
I am happy for your skill, really I am.:D

Though no master of reloading, I do regularly reload .45ACP and .30-06. I seemingly have this same strange ability to detect the difference between .45ACP and .40S&W or between '06 and .308 at a glance.

The trimmed .45G, if the dimensions on GT are correct, is only nominally shorter. I don't have the treasure of your experience spotting the difference between calibers as similar as 9mmP and 9mmK, but now if Gaston is successful, I'll be getting a free crash course.

Gee, just what I always wanted--something else to do that was formerly unneccessary.:rolleyes:

Kilgor
February 14, 2003, 04:08 PM
Go fire the stupid thing in the woods or a gravel pit is my initial reaction.

Are you kidding? I doubt I'll buy one, but you're being a control freak.

Kilgor
February 14, 2003, 04:12 PM
By the way, when I drive it really annoys me that there are other cars on the road. Please get a law passed that says others have to get off the roads when I want to get somewhere. Oh and while you're at it make sure all of the lights are green for me too. I hate waiting.

mpthole
February 14, 2003, 05:16 PM
Not only no, but heck NO! When ranges start banning certain calibers they become as bad as the anti's. I used to belong to a real nice outdoor range - until they banned me from shooting my .50 BMG. Guess what? No more money from this guy and all the bad press I can give them.

Frohickey
February 14, 2003, 05:34 PM
Boats, you are sounding like those welfare queens that complain that they can't buy certain items with their food stamps.

Deal with it. You are picking up free brass, and one of the drawbacks is that you don't know what will be on the ground when you pick it up. It could be someone's 45ACP that has been trimmed 20 times, and are about to have casehead separation if you put another load through it. Or, it could be some LC brass that will definitely give you higher pressures if you load it as if its normal brass.

Deal with it.

As it is, I already hate the shooting ranges here that prohibit steel-cased cartridges, or CCI Blazer. So what, that these cases can't be reloaded. Maybe the outfit the range sells its brass to should sort them out before they dump them into their machines. They should deal with it. I'm at the range to shoot, and maybe leave my empty cases. If you say that I can't leave my empty cases unless its brass, then I'll take my business elsewhere.

freeride21a
February 14, 2003, 06:44 PM
Dont sweat it...ther is alreay a .45super out there...is that banned.

Sometimes the only ammo I can afford is the CCI on sale...I guess I wouldnt be allowed to shoot in your comps.

And after working at a range for 3 years and sorting brass often, I could tell a 38 from a 357 at 20 feet(no joke) So I really don't see the problem.

DeltaElite
February 14, 2003, 06:53 PM
Well that settles it. I am gonna get a Glock 37 in 45 Glock and toss my empties at every range in the county, just to irritate people. :neener:

Damn caliber Nazis. I bet HCI has a special membership section for caliber Nazis. :p

Boats
February 14, 2003, 07:02 PM
Alright, alright, where is my Frenc. . .er. . .my surrender flag?:confused: If I see one of these frankenpistols at the range it will be time to shoot a revolver. :p

I have decided instead to write all of the manufacturers and propose that if they decide to chamber any new weapons in the round, that they call it .45Kurz. As Glock goes to such extraordinary lengths to avoid rollmarking 9mm Luger, .40 S&W, .357SIG, and .45ACP on their slides why should anyone hint that Glock has anything to do with the .45K?

What's good for the Glock is good for the non-Glock.:neener:

BerettaNut92
February 14, 2003, 07:48 PM
No no and no.

HABU
February 14, 2003, 08:30 PM
Maybe it's time that some of the .45 snob crowd started to realize that there are other cartridges that people shoot. What!:what:
I have 3 .45's so I better start working on my .45 snob technique.:D

Just HOW much shorter is the Glock case?:confused:

trapshooter
February 14, 2003, 09:53 PM
I'm still waiting to see pressure numbers. I want to see how it gets 1100 fps with a 185 Gold Dot, and through what length barrel. This may be the 'short magnum' rifle thing, in a pistol. The difference is, a lot less barrel to work with, maybe. If the barrel length is the same as standard .45 guns, then I fail to see how the 37 is 'smaller'. If the barrel is shorter while maintaining this velocity, then it may, in fact, be a slightly more efficient cartridge than the standard .45ACP. What powder, primer? (Maybe those will be proprietary, too).

Autolite
February 14, 2003, 10:00 PM
Stick to 22LR. Problems solved ...

3 gun
February 14, 2003, 11:12 PM
Steel and aluminum cased ammo were banned
Sounds like a loser of a club. Hey I have a great idea! Lets make an expensive hobby declining in the number of active members and make it more difficult and costly to take part.

When you've driven away enough undesirables, the state can turn your club into a nice park.

Boats
February 14, 2003, 11:53 PM
I'd much rather have the Camaro driving mullet types losing their pants and jackbooted wannabe StormFront members hanging out at my range while we're busy here stereotyping a club based on its prohibition of Wolf and Blazer. . . .I wasn't aware that the serfs had to sell blood products to acquire S&B, Fiocchi, American Eagle or PMC.:rolleyes:

David Roberson
February 15, 2003, 06:55 PM
Boats, re-read your last post, then concentrate real hard on the word "sterotyping," and tell us what you see.

Boats
February 16, 2003, 02:11 AM
Dude, it was sarcasm.:scrutiny:

Marshall
February 16, 2003, 02:21 AM
Sounds like something that goes with the territory to me.

If I bought one and my range had a problem with it, I am changing my membership to one that doesn't.

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