Mexican Soldiers Interrupt Funeral of Marine


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rick_reno
July 5, 2004, 11:35 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124710,00.html

Maybe our great leader should take this up with his buddy in Mexico, President Fox.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124710,00.html

Mexican Soldiers Interrupt Funeral of Marine
Monday, July 05, 2004

SAN LUIS DE LA PAZ, Mexico — Mexican soldiers carrying automatic weapons interrupted the Independence Day (search) funeral of a U.S. Marine and demanded that the Marine honor guard give up ceremonial replicas of rifles they carried. The move drew an angry reaction from the U.S. Ambassador.

Hundreds of friends and relatives packed a small cemetery for the funeral on Sunday of 22-year-old Juan Lopez (search), who was born in this sun-scorched farming town, immigrated to Dalton, Ga., as a teenager and became a Marine.

He was killed in an ambush in Ramadi, west of Baghdad, on June 21.

Maj. Curt Gwilliam presented an American flag to Lopez's widow, Sandra Torres, who clutched a bouquet of yellow and white flowers while tears streamed down her face.

While the funeral demonstrated the close human ties of Mexico and the United States, problems began moments after the start.

Four U.S. Marines marched solemnly to the grave carrying an American flag and the colors of the Marine Corps. Two of the men had rifles that looked real, but could not be fired, strapped to their backs.

Four Mexican soldiers blocked their path, asking the four Marines and six others who had served as pallbearers to return to the car that had brought them to the funeral. Several minutes of discussions by soldiers from both countries continued until a trumpet player began a rendition of taps and the funeral proceeded, despite the objections of the Mexican troops.

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fix
July 5, 2004, 11:48 AM
Several minutes of discussions by soldiers from both countries continued until a trumpet player began a rendition of taps and the funeral proceeded, despite the objections of the Mexican troops.

Sounds like the discussions were one sided. :D

ravinraven
July 5, 2004, 01:38 PM
....a one-sided noisy bang bang discussion.

Low-life bass terds.

rr

Ironbarr
July 5, 2004, 01:45 PM
?????????????????

Firethorn
July 5, 2004, 03:26 PM
You expect anything else from the Marines? They take their funerals seriously. They will bury anybody military, anywhere in the USA, guarenteed if you ask. They showed up the Army for a few years by burying army members who wanted to a military funeral more than 50 miles from an army base. Special arrangements will be made for fellow marines on other locations. :p

That being said, I wouldn't want to be the mexican soldier to mess with a US Marine. Even if the Marine is unarmed...

That being said, I think it's more likely that somebody didn't grease the right palm.... :scrutiny: :fire: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

R.H. Lee
July 5, 2004, 03:32 PM
Ridiculous Mexican machismo culture. Always trying to compensate for huevitos pequenos.

Mac Attack
July 5, 2004, 04:13 PM
You know what I have to say ...
:cuss:

Hawkmoon
July 5, 2004, 05:11 PM
If they're so bloody sensitive about foreign soldiers on their turf, maybe they should learn to stay the heck off OUR turf.

Maybe some Marines would like to volunteer to spend leave time "camping" (recreationally, of course) in the desert along the Arizona/Mexico border. Of course, there's snakes and such in that desert, so they'd have to carry "personal protection" weapons.

DRZinn
July 5, 2004, 07:33 PM
Of course, with the replica rifles "strapped to their backs" (i.e. slung) instead of carried at the shoulder, they had already made a concession to the sensitivity of the Mexicans, but that wasn't enough....

c_yeager
July 5, 2004, 09:53 PM
Why are we burying Marines in Mexico?

mtnbkr
July 5, 2004, 10:02 PM
It's Mexico, you gotta play by their rules. We'd expect the same if the situation was reversed.

Chris

Andrew Rothman
July 5, 2004, 10:28 PM
What mtnbkr said. Stupid rules, but those are the rules.

Having lived in Mexico, though, I can say with great assurance that you can buy any sort of "exception" you need.

Hawkmoon
July 5, 2004, 10:52 PM
Chris:
It's Mexico, you gotta play by their rules. We'd expect the same if the situation was reversed.
I disagree. It's unlikely we would find an Anglo citizen of the United States being killed in the line of duty while serving in the Mexican army, but let's suppose for a moment that it happened. If our guy wanted to be buried in the American town of his birth and requested a military honor guard, do you think we would NOT allow an honor guard, carrying empty weapons, to accompany the casket?

I bet we'd allow it. I think we would even allow them to use blanks to fire the salute. I cannot imagine that the United States would be so petty as to make an issue of something like that. My guess is that if there were any American soldiers around, they'd probably salute as the casket went by.

George S.
July 5, 2004, 10:55 PM
Why are we burying Marines in Mexico?

The Marine was a native of Mexico and he was being buried in his home town. According to the article, he had emigrated to the US and later joined the Corps. Guess the USMC will provide honor guards for their fallen comrades with honors where necessary.

Then to have the ceremony sullied by representatives of a country that can't run itself is an absolute travesty.:fire: I wuld think that the Marine Honor Guard knew well in advance that they could not carry "real" rifles in Mexico and were obeying the laws of that country. What the idiot Mexican soldiers did was not only stupid, but could have very well resulted in their being "squared away" by the Marine honor guards. And probably should have.

4570Rick
July 5, 2004, 11:39 PM
Mexican Military;
Cowards, one step to the rear and only slightly to the right of Sadam’s Republican Guard. I had a run in with these creeps in the mid 70's while on a hunting trip. Let’s just say they are completely corrupt and totally amoral.:fire: :cuss:

c_yeager
July 6, 2004, 02:47 AM
I disagree. It's unlikely we would find an Anglo citizen of the United States being killed in the line of duty while serving in the Mexican army, but let's suppose for a moment that it happened. If our guy wanted to be buried in the American town of his birth and requested a military honor guard, do you think we would NOT allow an honor guard, carrying empty weapons, to accompany the casket?

Actually i bet we would not allow it. I mean really. Do you see our beuacracy allowing armed soldiers of a foreign military onto our soil to bury the body of someone who has renounced their citizenship? I seriously doubt it.

The Marine was a native of Mexico and he was being buried in his home town. According to the article, he had emigrated to the US and later joined the Corps. Guess the USMC will provide honor guards for their fallen comrades with honors where necessary.

I understand this. But honestly i think that someone who came to this country, became a citizen, joined the Marines, and DIED for HIS COUNTRY. Deserves to be burried in HIS country. His country of course being the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Clean97GTI
July 6, 2004, 03:08 AM
The last wishes of this person were more important to a group of Marines than their own safety, politics, etc. They were doing an honorable thing and that is the important thing.

You don't have to renounce your citizenship to join another army unless that army requires it. I know a man (American) who served in the IDF for several years. He moved back to the USA when his last term ended.

Firethorn
July 6, 2004, 07:29 AM
The USA will take just about anybody into the military, if they can pass certain background checks. You just can't serve more than one enlistment unless you become a US Citizen, of which you're almost guarenteed because they have several perks. Anywhere the military sends them counts towards residency is one of the big ones. The other disadvantage is that you can't really get a clearance, so you can't work in careers that require access to classified material.

And I agree, the departed's wish was probably to be buried with his family. I don't know about you, but my ties to my family are stronger than my ties to my country when it comes to something like that.

Double Naught Spy
July 6, 2004, 09:49 AM
You know, if there are laws prohibiting possession of such weapons, or even simulated weapons, by foreigners, especially foreign military, then you have to respect Mexican law. I think Firethorn is right in that somebody didn't grease the right palms to make the honor gaurd's fake weapons okay to use for the ceremony.

Was it rude? Yep. But then again, given many of the posts I have seen on this board, this sort of thing could likely happen here in the US as well. And I know we certainly don't like the idea of uniform clad foreign troops on our soil!

Cosmoline
July 6, 2004, 06:22 PM
Please hand over your *cough* rifles. Nudge nudge. (rubs fingers together)

If the proper grease was applied to this situation, I have no doubt those Mexican soldiers would have provided an armed escort in full dress uniforms, and joined the NRA.

SemperFi83
July 6, 2004, 06:24 PM
When I went through bootcamp we had a French citizen and a Guatemalan citizen in my platoon.... They were Marines too as far as I and the Marine Corps were concerned.

I think maybe the Mexicans were lucky that the Marines' rifles were fake.:evil:

Firethorn
July 6, 2004, 06:59 PM
Double Naught Spy,

While we might object to a large number of armed troops in our country, it would be relativley painless for a 12 or so member ceremonial burial honor guard to bring their actual weapons, complete with 21 gun salute for a fallen soldier who happened to be a United States Citizen.

nemesis
July 6, 2004, 09:05 PM
I saw the TV coverage of this event on a Mexican channel and on an American Spanish-language network (Univision). The narrative was quite telling and sure indicates whose side the TV people are on.

The matter hinges on the flagrant "violation of Mexico's sovereignty by armed military personnel of a foreign power". No mention was made that we are neighbors or unified by NAFTA, just a "foreign power".

More interesting is that at no time did they refer to the Marines as American, at no time did they mention nor say "America", "The United States" or "The United States of America". However, several times they did mention the "Mar reeness Norte Americanos" and they did repeat the term "Norte Americanos" several times.

Man, these guys hate us so much it must make them puke knowing that we are still going to be here tomorrow.

wingman
July 6, 2004, 10:24 PM
It's Mexico, you gotta play by their rules. We'd expect the same if the situation was reversed.

Bull, Mexico has become a grown pup hanging on the teat of the American
taxpayer and hating us all the more for it. Time to wean Mexico from
the usa..
:cuss:

mtnbkr
July 7, 2004, 10:13 AM
No arguement there. They are a sovereign nation, they should be treated like one. Not only does that include following their laws when in their country, but enforcing the borders between us and sending their criminals back to them in shackles.

Chris

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