IF AWB sunsets, will idpa change the 10rd mag limit?

[Texas Bob]

I was wondering if "the garbage" sunsets does anyone think idpa will stick to the 10rd limit, or maybe a "seperate" hi-cap class come into being? What are any shooters hearing, those that get around a lot more than just the local level.

[Jim Watson]

From my conversations, correspondence, and travel; I don't think Bill W. will approve either admitting standard capacity magazines overall OR adding a division which would make hash out of the 18 shot per stage limit.

[dukeofurl]

the biggest problem IDPA faces is becoming IPSC lite

Going to 10+ capacities will make the single stacks and revolvers less competitive. Keeping the cap at 10 for ESP and SSP ensures that theirs a level of competition that is almost commensurate to the next with the exception of revolvers.

[John Forsyth]

Do not see any thing changing.

[faustulus]

How can they change? They have spent almost an eon now working on the rule revisions.

[dukeofurl]

And they're still not done writing the rulebook!

I'm sending a letter over to 'ol Bill with the following reccomendations.

Shooters will inevitably fall down, lose their ear or eye protection, etc...during the course of any regular match.

Well guess what? Theres NO sort of ruling regarding that. If a shooter falls down and his goggles fall off, as the RO am I entitled to give him a reshoot? I think that in the interest of safety that an allowance for accidents should be normal. I trapped for sporting clays once and if someone had a jam you had 3 boxes on the scorecard not unlike a basketball scoring book for technical fouls on the coach.

The other thing is blind stages. You get someone that squibs and you HAVE to stop them in the interest of keeping a dozen pieces of plastic out of their face. Do they get a reshoot?

Inclement weather - USPSA Nationals shot rain or shine. Is there an official stance on weather and if a match needs to be called?

The current rulebook setup is poor and jumbled at best. The USPSA rulebook has uniform citations that allow for a question to be answered by citations quickly.

The logo isnt that great either, it resembles that of a rorscharch test at 5 feet.

It isnt perfect, but we're working on it.

[John Forsyth]

I'm sending a letter over to 'ol Bill with the following reccomendations.

Good luck.

If a shooter falls down and his goggles fall off, as the RO am I entitled to give him a reshoot?

No. And if they loose their gun, they get a DQ.

You get someone that squibs and you HAVE to stop them in the interest of keeping a dozen pieces of plastic out of their face. Do they get a reshoot?

No. It was their equipment failure, not the ranges or the SO's. If the SO stops them and there was no squib, then they get one. Just one of the reasons a blind stage has no place in a sanctioned match.

[Jeeper]

I dont think anything will change because no one knows if another ban isnt inevitable anyway. Why change and then 6 months latter change back.

[tcdrennen]

Besides, various state 10 round limits (including Kalifornistan's) will still be in effect. The only mag benefit we'll see is a sudden drop in the price of 10 round mags as people who live in America upgrade. :banghead:

But I shoot CDP anyway :D

[CZ52GUY]

...but probably won't.

The states with 2nd Amendment infringing bans that will continue regardless are one factor.

The 18 shot limit is another.

You could get around it by mandating reloads within a Vickers stage that would make the full capacity mag's no more advantageous than a 10-rounder, but it would probably get too weird.

You could get around it by having a separate division for full cap's, but it might limit the participation in SSP & ESP...certainly that would expose some real life differences between shooting a Constitutionally infringed magazine and a Constitutionally consistent one.

What I would like to see, is at least an acknowledgment that this is/was a bogus ban in some manner...perhaphs by encouraging the use of full capacity mag's in Limited Vickers stages. Limited stages generally have mandatory reloads anyway, but encouraging full cap's (something that some clubs do informally anyway) might make those stages run a little faster (e.g. the Classifier).

We might get a pleasant surprise, but I doubt it. I love shooting IDPA, but in the name of avoiding an "equipment race" and mantaining a consistent set of rules...I doubt we'll see any change...even one that would force the acknowledgment that a bogus ban has people downloading mag's to level the playing field.

In the end, it's Bill's game, I'll play by his rules...I enjoy playing.

Safe shooting,

CZ52'

[jason10mm]

I'm sure some folk would object to someone shooting a classifier/limited vickers count stage (which really needs to be changed to VICKERS COUNT, and vickers count needs to become unlimited count or something less confusing) with a heavy, 18+ round magazine while others use a lighter 10 round mag in the same gun. Personally, I say just open up the magazine limits since you ought to be shooting what you'd fight with and full caps won't be any more expensive than 10 rounders. Those who choose lower capacity pistols will have to deal with it. It ain't like there is money at stake at the local level, anyone who can win at big matches is going to be using optimized equipment anyway.

[CZ52GUY]

...if AWB sets...I'll be thrilled that we finally won one, whether Bill lets us enjoy the spoils of victory or not ;).

Safe shooting,

CZ52'

[TooTaxed]

I'm not counting on the ban dying. It's too easy for Feinstein & Co to tack an extension...perhaps permanently!...as a rider on some unrelated and desirable bill that gets passed

[Beorn]

I doubt it. As stated above, the folks in Arkansas won't want the sport to become IPSC-lite.

I would like to see 8-round revolvers shoot in CDP (.357, 10mm, and the like). Wouldn't that be cool?

[CZ52GUY]

I'm not counting on the ban dying. It's too easy for Feinstein & Co to tack an extension...perhaps permanently!...as a rider on some unrelated and desirable bill that gets passed

...Feinstein only has this week, then 5 legislative calendar days in September to get the ban extended. The Senate is in recess July 26 - September 6.

Obstacles to renewing the ban before it Sunsets:
1) She must get the Senate to adopt it in time for (Frist has no motivation to put this on a fast track and can procedurally make it difficult for her to attach it to other bills) ...
2) ... a very relunctant House to agree to adopt it (there is doubt Hastert and Delay would even allow it to come to a vote) ...
3) ... in time for a President to sign it at the risk of alienating one of his strongest base constituencies before the November election. Remember, the Rove strategy was announced whan Ari Fleischer was still Press Secretary...I think Rove was "mathematically challenged" and was also hoping he could steal some Soccer Mom votes and that the 2nd Amendment base would have "forgiven", if not "forgotten" and could play a "lesser of two evils" card by 11/04. Well as it turns out, less than 2,000 MMM's showed up in Washington, ~60,000 NRA members were at the Annual Convention this year...Karl, can you count???

Is there risk beyond 9/13/04? Absolutely.
Is the Sunset a lock? Probably not, anything can happen...but if you are playing the odds, the chances for an '04 renewal are very slim.

'04 AWB renewal within the realm of possible outcomes? Can't argue that.

Easy? Hardly.

Let's keep working to kick her gun grabbing posterior!!!

Safe shooting,

CZ52'